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Flouride? And when should we start visiting the dentist? - Page 2

post #21 of 35
We didn't use flouride until Ds was 14 months. At this point he already had severe caries on his upper teeth. I just didn't notice them. He wouldn't let me check his teeth at that age. We were using Weleda tooth gel and brushing twice a day.
I went back and forth on the flouride issue, not using flouride, using it once a day. I really wished I had been consistant with using it.
Two of ds's teeth disintergrated/broke in half and two others had major decay. He was loosing enamal from his teeth at an incredible rate.
I don't think every child needs flouride, but mine does. I believe he has genetically weak enamel and no amount of Xylitol or diet change helped him.

We saw a pediatric dentist when he was 14 months. I wish I had noticed his caries sooner, because we might have been able to do something to stop the growth of decay.
post #22 of 35
Thread Starter 
Wow, I'm more confused now than I was before, LOL!

I asked my pediatrician about the safety of flouride and she said that it's ok in the small dosages she prescribed. We don't have flouride in our tap water. I didn't bother giving it to DD while I was nursing her, because I guess there's something in milk that makes the flouride not work. We just started giving it to her on a regular basis a few months ago. This is something I'll have to research a little bit more...

I haven't noticed any cavities yet and I KNOW my daughter will FREAK OUT having a stranger dig around in her mouth, but she'll be 3 in November and I suppose she's going to have to go eventually. Thanks everyone for the good info.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lil'monkeys View Post

I asked my pediatrician about the safety of flouride and she said that it's ok in the small dosages she prescribed.
Not to talk smack about your pediatrician, because she is not the only one, but they ALL will say this. The important thing to know is that it is all based on the same research. The stuff conducted in the 1960s that had serious flaws, conflicts of interest, etc.

I bet if you ask her what amount is safe, she'll say 20 mgs per day. Which is the stat used by the ADA and what is considered standard even though Harold Hodge himself changed his recommendation from 20 to 10.

This is the real problem. Flouride is one of those holy cows that no one will criticize or examine. Anyone who does is considered a quack. But to me its not hard to figure out if one just looks at the data. If you hand any modern scientists the unedited data from back then, they tear that stuff apart.

The Flouride Deception book has actual photocopies of memos sent back and forth regarding this stuff. Transcripts, unedited versions of research, and so on. Its not a theory, but a fact that this kind of shadiness was happening. With the expansion of the Freedom of Information Act under the Clinton Adminstration, all this stuff came to light.

Before all of this research was lumped in with the Cold War and thus classified. Clinton broadened what was available to the public and could be discussed openly.

Seriously, I can't recommend the book enough because on top of being highly informative, its a really good read.

XOXO
B

P.S. to the posters whose children have serious dental problems, hugs to you. it must be really hard. after my research, I am very skeptical about whether or not flouride would have made much of a difference though.

my brother and I both had regular dental checkups, flouride treatments, and dental sealants. I was fastidious about brushing and flossing every day. He would go weeks without even brushing and my mom had to ride his tail about it. Totally in that boy phase of being dirty and grubby. When we went to the dentist, he'd brush right before we went. His checkup was always glowing (i.e. "you're doing such a good job brushing, matt!"). Mine was always "you need to focus here and here. make sure you get the brush in here." I had a number of cavities and so on. He didn't. Clearly the flouride or lack of flouride does not explain it, as that was a constant between both of us.

I think people are quick to blame a lack of flouride for their kids' cavities, but I think it honestly has to do with crummy luck. Studies show that the only benefits are topical and even that is a 15% increase at most. So I have to wonder if a 15% boost would stop teeth from cracking apart and so on.

I only say all this because I think we all have guilt as parents about what we should have done in the past, but I think its more reasonable to believe that your poor little one just drew the short stick when it came to teeth. I feel for your little guy. I can relate!
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lil'monkeys View Post
I didn't bother giving it to DD while I was nursing her, because I guess there's something in milk that makes the flouride not work. We just started giving it to her on a regular basis a few months ago. This is something I'll have to research a little bit more...
I haven't heard this about breastmilk and flouride. Do you have anymore info about this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BethSLP View Post
P.S. to the posters whose children have serious dental problems, hugs to you. it must be really hard. after my research, I am very skeptical about whether or not flouride would have made much of a difference though.

my brother and I both had regular dental checkups, flouride treatments, and dental sealants. I was fastidious about brushing and flossing every day. He would go weeks without even brushing and my mom had to ride his tail about it. Totally in that boy phase of being dirty and grubby. When we went to the dentist, he'd brush right before we went. His checkup was always glowing (i.e. "you're doing such a good job brushing, matt!"). Mine was always "you need to focus here and here. make sure you get the brush in here." I had a number of cavities and so on. He didn't. Clearly the flouride or lack of flouride does not explain it, as that was a constant between both of us.

I think people are quick to blame a lack of flouride for their kids' cavities, but I think it honestly has to do with crummy luck. Studies show that the only benefits are topical and even that is a 15% increase at most. So I have to wonder if a 15% boost would stop teeth from cracking apart and so on.

I only say all this because I think we all have guilt as parents about what we should have done in the past, but I think its more reasonable to believe that your poor little one just drew the short stick when it came to teeth. I feel for your little guy. I can relate!
Thanks for the book recommendation

I'm not a huge flouride advocate and I hear all the time how flouride is some miracle cure for children and caries. I was blamed for not giving ds enough flouride or starting it too late.
We don't have flouride in our water and if we did I would be trying not to drink it as that seems excessive.
But I think with the small amounts of flouride we give ds its doing more good than bad.
post #25 of 35
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=dawncayden;10969163]I haven't heard this about breastmilk and flouride. Do you have anymore info about this?

My pediatrician said something about not taking it within 2 hours of having milk. This is from Yahoo Health:

http://health.yahoo.com/oralcare-tre...-d00428a1.html

[QUOTE]I bet if you ask her what amount is safe, she'll say 20 mgs per day. Which is the stat used by the ADA and what is considered standard even though Harold Hodge himself changed his recommendation from 20 to 10.

OMG, I think we've been giving my daughter 50 mgs per day! Or, maybe it's 5? I'll have to check... I'm going to stop giving it to her until I've had a chance to do more research. Thanks for the information!
post #26 of 35
I am not going to bring Harvest to the dentist until he is old enough to willingly go and open his mouth for them. Right now he wouldnt understand the situation. At this point, he is scared to death of doctors and he either clutches me with a death grip or screams the whole time. I know that the dentist wouldnt be able to touch his teeth with a ten foot pole at this point.

I am against flouride and will never use it on Harvest or any other child that I may bear. I am VERY careful about what body products I use on him and we buy a very natural toothpaste for him that is made out of plants and is specifically for children. We brush his teeth 1-2 times daily. I dont buy into the whole hyper dental thing. We are just going to care for our bodies and do the best that we can.
post #27 of 35
Hi, I want to know which dentist you went to... my son was so freaked out he cried the entire time!!!
post #28 of 35
about the teeth degrading... how much juice does this child drink? We had minor issues with my son because he drinks so much juice and had to restrict his juice intake. Did he have any major illnesses when he was really young, like rumatic (sp?) fever? My mother had that when she was small and when she was 5 the enamel came off her teeth... dentist said it was due to the high fever.
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontgirl View Post
I am not going to bring Harvest to the dentist until he is old enough to willingly go and open his mouth for them. Right now he wouldnt understand the situation. At this point, he is scared to death of doctors and he either clutches me with a death grip or screams the whole time. I know that the dentist wouldnt be able to touch his teeth with a ten foot pole at this point.

I am against flouride and will never use it on Harvest or any other child that I may bear. I am VERY careful about what body products I use on him and we buy a very natural toothpaste for him that is made out of plants and is specifically for children. We brush his teeth 1-2 times daily. I dont buy into the whole hyper dental thing. We are just going to care for our bodies and do the best that we can.
I felt the exact same way. I was never going to put anything in his body that wasn't natural, I would never forcably brush his teeth and going to the dentist was going to be when he was 4years+...but sadly that didn't go as planned. I didn't know anything about caries, I had no idea that it could happen if you were feeding your child all organic, healthy foods. He never had juice or candy, we brushed twice a day as much as he let us.
I was VERY against flouride and wouldn't put it in my child but then when you see your child's teeth falling apart before your eyes, you want to fix it...and I truly think that a small amount of flouride on a toothbrush once a day is doing more good then bad.
I also didn't think ds could handle going to the dentist, but he got used to it and as long as I was there he was fine. We would talk about it at home and practice too 'this is how we sit with the dentist, lets open our mouth and show our teeth'
I don't think its completely necessary for all babies to see dentists at 12 months ONLY if you are keeping a good eye on his teeth yourself. I wasn't doing that. One day I noticed large white marks on his top teeth near his gums. They either grew in that way or I just wasn't looking at his teeth closely enough.
I really hope we can figure out why such healthy babies are getting so much decay, and I wish that no one goes through what my family has had to.
We all want to help our children and do our best for them, but sometimes that means changing our tune and going against what we once believe. This was my case. I was such an advocate for homeopathics, now that has changed, and I was SO against flouride, now I eat my words

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander's Mom View Post
about the teeth degrading... how much juice does this child drink? We had minor issues with my son because he drinks so much juice and had to restrict his juice intake. Did he have any major illnesses when he was really young, like rumatic (sp?) fever? My mother had that when she was small and when she was 5 the enamel came off her teeth... dentist said it was due to the high fever.
Do you mean MY ds? My son rarely drinks juice. He has probably had it maybe 8 times in his life (watered down) I can count on one hand the times he has had chocolate or candy. He eats all healthy healthy food.
He does have allergies/sensitivities to some foods. This might be a cause of his decay. We really aren't sure. We do avoid all those foods with him.
I think its a combination of genetically weak enamel and allergies.
post #30 of 35
Well I live where we have well water(so no fluoride) and I have read the pros and cons of administering fluoride and have chosen to give my DD, less than her prescribed dose, but still give her it. My DH has HORRID dental issues and has had teeth pulled, filled, root canals, you name it(and have many others in his family). He asked his dentist who deals with all of these issues what he thought about fluoride and he said he and his wife gave both their DD's fluoride religiously and slacked when their son was born, girls have great teeth the boy not so much. He recommended that our DD continue to take it, and I will continue to give it to her in smaller doses. I just PRAY she ends up with my teeth, not DH's. He even said last night "I hope my genetics for teeth just skip you." I am trying to be adamant about her brushing and always trying to set a good example by brushing in front of her, and I make her get her teeth brushed, I don't like her screaming about it sometimes, but I would hate it more for her to go through the pain of having her Dad's dental problems, I don't wish that on anyone.
post #31 of 35
I still have to question the wisdom of giving flouride internally. Why not topically? If the research only shows a topical benefit, I don't understand these supplements given internally at all.

Also, I think the anecdotal evidence from 3 kids isn't very important. My brother and I had the exact same flouride exposure and different results.

Just like vaccinations, everyone assumes that any reduction in disease is due to this one factor. Makes no sense to me. With vaccinations, there were major advances in nutrition, hygiene, sanitation and so forth. Yet its the shot that gets full credit. Same with flouride. The research shows a benefit only topically. So why are internal supplements given?

And I'm not one of those nuts who wants "only natural" things with no common sense. But I will drop dead before I intentionally give my child water that has a byproduct from fertilizer phosphate smokestacks added that the EPA ADMITS HAS NOT ONE STUDY TO SHOW ITS SAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

XOXO
B
post #32 of 35
Recently a dental hygenist told me that kids should start seeing the dentist starting at age 6 months, for "preventive care" since so many babies get baby bottle mouth. Um . . .
My daughter didn't visit the dentist until she was 4, and my 4 yo son has not gone yet because I know he'd be totally freaked out- I see no reason to subject him to that until he's ready. Otherwise he could develop a very unhealthy view of dental visits, and fear them when he may really need them someday.
We have never supplemented flouride and avoid flouride toothpaste as well- and our kids have never had problems with their teeth, cavities or otherwise.
They eat a very healthy whole foods organic diet, with almost no sugar. They do not drink juices, only teas, and water, and occasionally milk. We brush their teeth in the morning, and at night before bed.
That all being said, this is what has worked well for us but I think this is all a very personal thing depending on your child. If your child is ready to see the dentist younger than that than I see no problem with it. If your child has problems with tooth decay, then flouride is probably a good idea. And I have known kids with perfectly healthy lifestyles whose teeth for some reason have decay problems.
post #33 of 35
i don't have any advice on the flouride issue. like so many other things, i think that's a personal choice that will be different for everyone. as far as the first visit to the dentist, the ADA recommends a child is seen within 6 months of their first tooth errupting.

if you go to a ped dentist, they'll be quick and should let you go in with your child. we took dd at 14mos and again right around 2yrs, and the appts were very quick and easy. personally speaking, i would rather go and feel like that was all for nothing, than wait until they're older and not have caught a problem early on. but we have great dental coverage, so it doesn't cost anything to take dd in to get checked out. i might be of a different opinion if it weren't affordable for us. just my : though!
post #34 of 35
I first took DD1 to the dentist when she was 2, it was a quick peep because she was very unhappy. Less then 6 months later I started to notice cavities, she ended up having to under go sedation to get 4 fixed, she is also missing two of her front teeth now. I'll echo what many others have said, no juice, or junk food, etc... DD2 wasn't even 1 year yet when I saw her first spots on her teeth, same thing, the child was barely eating solid food, and still has never had anything to drink besides water and breastmilk. She is 1.5y now and so far we are just watching her teeth, but they are just getting worse, I don't know how much longer we'll be able to wait.
post #35 of 35
I took my daughter to the dentist this past week. She’s 28 months old. It was my appointment time for cleaning and a check up. My mom was there to take DD to the waiting room if she acted up. The hygienist was awesome telling DD what she was doing. My daughter watched the whole time, fascinated. They gave her stickers and a cool toothbrush. She got to ride in the chair. The dentist counted her teeth and took a quick peek.

I did have some specific questions. My DD is adopted and her birth mother has horrible teeth. The dentist assured me that family history isn’t destiny. He specifically mentioned fluoridated water as a positive for DD’s future dental heath. There were a couple of other things I had questions about and went away reassured. It was a positive experience for us.

As for fluoride – I am for it. The difference between any medicine and poison is the dose. Of course there are instances where people have had too much fluoride or it is mixed with something that had a completely different effect. My research on this includes access to dental journals through my job, not just random crap found on the internet. (I’m not saying anyone is doing that here. I’ve waded into this debate many times in many forums.) Having a chemical engineer hubby helps too. I don’t let DD get too much. She gets tap fluoridated water (though she usually chooses soy milk.) and we use a straight dentifrice with no fluoride.

Masel
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