Car seats and shopping carts

[queenjane]

Are most infant carseats designed to be used in shopping carts (meaning they click or somehow attach safely to the front part/seat/top of a grocery cart)??

I have come to really hate the carseat i bought for our foster baby...it was a quick purchase, i ran to walmart and bought the seat on our way to the agency to get the baby. So i didnt do alot of research. The seat i bought is by Safety 1st, was about $70 (i'm having a hard time finding it listed at walmart.com)....after i started using it, i realized in the directions it says it cannot be used in shopping carts, and in practice thats very true. There is no way to safely place this seat in the upper part of a shopping cart. The seat either doesnt fit at all (there isnt any little clips/slots that would slide over the metal back part of the cart seat like my older son's infant seat had), or it fits but the seat is pitched so far forward that it doesnt seem safe (and i have to practically hold onto the seat the whole time anyway, since it isnt attached in any way to the cart.)

So i end up having to put the seat in the body of the cart....which is fine if i'm just browsing, but impossible if i actually need to do grocery shopping, as the only space i'm left with is the basket/front seat of the cart, or the lower part (which isnt practical for small items)....my son went shopping with me, pushing an extra cart, and even he said "You'd never be able to do this without me!"

Of course wearing the baby is an option, and i have done that, but sometimes he's asleep in the carseat, or he has just eaten (when i wear him after he's taken a bottle he usually ends up puking all over me, i think its the pressure of tummy to tummy with a full belly)....

Is this typical of new carseats...? I see moms all the time in the store with their infant carseats looking very secure in the top part of the cart....did an idiot design this seat?! I also have a hard time fitting it in many restaurant booths, i dont know if that is also typical of new carseats. Overall i've developed a hatred for this seat and regret buying it. I think as soon as the baby is big enough and can also sit up on his own (which will make it easier in restaurants, etc), i'm switching to a convertible.


Katherine

[dallaschildren]

There are only one or two car seats on the market right now that specifically state in their manual it is ok to place them on a shopping cart. Defer to your owners manual. With that said, some CRS manufacturers side step the issue entirely and say something like "Do so at your own risk" or words to that effect in their manual, which I think is dangerous and irresponsible. We recommend placing the baby in the basket portion of the cart. Personally I recommend a sling or carrier instead of leaving them in their car seat. This is of coarse if the parent is physically able to do so. Infant carriers primary function is as a child restraint for a motor vehicle.

DC

[ThreeBeans]

(I was not aware that ANY crs allowed being placed in the top of a shopping cart, thanks, DC for clearing that up. Do you know which brands?)


OP, as a general rule, that's not a recommended and completely unsafe thing to do.

Infant seats are great in terms of being able to load them up in the house when it is cold out and then take them outside all warm and toasty without having to mess around in the cold air. But they really aren't meant or designed for use outside the car. Prolonged use of an infant seat for a newborn, even one who passes a car seat test in the NICU, can cause lowered oxygenation saturation. It's also really lousy for their backs.

[queenjane]

I just think its crazy...i wouldnt mind a "do at your own risk" kind of thing, just to cover their backsides. That would be fine, if it was essentially safe but they couldnt "guarantee" that it was safe (meaning, the seat fit fine, and didnt seem ready to fall off)....but this dang seat doesnt even fit. Its horribly impractical....most moms dont take someone with them to shop, to push an extra cart. And its difficult and uncomfortable to put the baby in and out of the carseat (the stupid latch , rather than having each side piece click into the buckle separately, has you instead have to lay one side piece precisely on top of the other one and then click them into the top of the buckle together. Then you have to push *really* hard to get the whole thing unbuckled...grrrr....)...if he is sleeping or otherwise content, i'd rather skip all of that, run in, get my groceries, and be on my way. i guess soon enough he'll be ready to actually sit in the cart (he's almost three months, hopefully in the next couple of months he'll be sitting up well, he's already got good head control).....i always bring the mei tai in with us just in case, but i'm not going to wake a sleeping baby to carry him.

this will teach me to do my research before buying a seat! :


Katherine

[Friday13th]

I generally consider it to be totally unsafe, all that weight precariously perched on the front of a cart seems like a bad idea to me, especially the heavier weight buckets. I believe certain seat manufacturers, Combi and Chicco, I think, make their seats specifically not to sit on top of carts, I could be wrong though.

I'm still amazed people have children who stay asleep in the carseats for more than a minute and a half after the car stops moving.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

OP, as a general rule, that's not a recommended and completely unsafe thing to do.

I'm not getting it....not to be argumentative, but how is it a "completely unsafe" thing to do....more unsafe than a child sitting in a cart? Even if the carseat is reclined and clicked onto or somehow attached to the cart? We arent talking running through the store at top speed, just regular shopping. What exactly do you envision happening? In all my years of shopping, i have never had a cart tip over, nor witness a cart tip over (unless you count perhaps a child playing on an empty cart and intentionally trying to tip it)....even if someone rammed you with their cart (again, never happened to me), if the seat was clipped onto the cart, it would very likely remain attached...so not any more unsafe than if your six month old was seatbelted in the seat/basket and someone hit you. At this point, it looks like the only completely safe thing to do would be to stay at home all the time, and thats not practical.


Katherine

[ThreeBeans]

It's not secure. Tipping over the cart (which having something that compact and heavy on top can do and has done,) can and will easily send the seat flying on impact.


This is a SAFETY item, not a CONVENIENCE item. You don't use SAFETY items in a way that they are not tested or designed to do.


Car seat manufacturers don't make seats so people can perch them on top of shopping carts. They are NOT designed to do that. They are designed to protect children in cars. Period.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Friday13th

I generally consider it to be totally unsafe, all that weight precariously perched on the front of a cart seems like a bad idea to me, especially the heavier weight buckets. I believe certain seat manufacturers, Combi and Chicco, I think, make their seats specifically not to sit on top of carts, I could be wrong though.

argh...computer ate my first reply.

I think your logic is flawed. Carts are designed not to tip.....how is it any safer to have a three yr old, or a bunch of heavy groceries in the front basket? I've seen lots and lots of such scenarios (kids, carseats, heavy groceries)in the front part of carts in the many years i've been grocery shopping, and never once have i EVER seen a cart just randomly flip over. If the carseat is connected/clipped to the cart, then its not "precarious" at all...its fairly stable. (what i find precarious is those scary flimsy carseat slings some restaurants have to hold carseats that dont fit in the booth)....but i guess most carseats no longer have this feature, so its a moot point.

Also...i would hope most parents stay right by their carts if their kids are in them....so if there were some random freak accident where the cart magically flipped over, the parent would be right there to help.

I'm still amazed people have children who stay asleep in the carseats for more than a minute and a half after the car stops moving.

Hmmm....with my son (who is 11), and now this foster babe, they've always slept when they are tired, no matter where they were.


Katherine

[ThreeBeans]

Originally Posted by queenjane

I've seen lots and lots of such scenarios (kids, carseats, heavy groceries)in the front part of carts in the many years i've been grocery shopping, and never once have i EVER seen a cart just randomly flip over.

You do realize that just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that kids haven't gotten seriously hurt, right?

[the_lissa]

I've seen a woman accidentally ram her cart into something and the car seat fell out. I don't think the danger is from the cart tipping. I think it is from somebody knocking the car seat or ramming the cart.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

Car seat manufacturers don't make seats so people can perch them on top of shopping carts. They are NOT designed to do that. They are designed to protect children in cars. Period.

Then they should stop manufacturing accessories that act like they should be anywhere but in the car (like stroller combos), and they shouldnt have handles for carrying, quite frankly(convertibles dont, after all). Do you have statistics on how many carseats have gone flying off of grocery carts? I'm not saying it has *never* happened, but must be quite rare considering i've never seen it happen, nor heard of it happening to anyone i know. I think this opinion is extreme.

Doesnt matter to me, our carseat doesnt fit in the top seat at all really, unlike apparently everyone else i see in the store.


Katherine

[pumpkin]

I've seen carts flip twice. Both were just freak accidents. I think I've just been the unlucky witness.

The first had a kid standing in the basket portion. The kid shifted his weight and the cart landed on its side.
The second had an infant carseat on top. They were going out to the car. The cart hit a tiny rock and the hole thing just flipped forward, like a mountain biker going over the handle bars.

I never would have imagined they were unstable, but they definitely are. I think its that there is supposed to be weight in the bottom of the basket. When the center of gravity shifts bad things can happen.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

You do realize that just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that kids haven't gotten seriously hurt, right?

No i thought if i had never heard of it it was impossible.

I'm talking about statistical probability. We all weigh the pros and cons of everything we do....cost vs benefit. Before i make a decision to assume that it is completely horribly unsafe to have a baby in a carseat in a cart, i'd like to base that decision on some facts. If you can give me some statistics that say it is a common "likely to happen" occurrence, then that is important info to me. Your criteria for gauging safety might be different than mine. Thats fine.


Katherine

[ThreeBeans]

I am obligated to stick with CPST recommendations. You can do whatever you want.

Car seats are for cars. Occasionally, they are manufactured and tested with strollers. They are not manufactured and tested with grocery carts. If you want to use your child as a crash-test dummy, it is certainly your right.

[dallaschildren]

Car seats are for cars....GREAT article in Mothering mag.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...car-seats.html

[DahliaRW]

Most of the stores around here have signs by the shopping carts that say not to put the infant seats on top.

[treqi]

I pushed the cart over when I was 4 and my brother(2yo) was sitting in the regular metal seat with the strap and was amazingly unscathed but carts are easily tipped over that is for sure........

[thepeach80]

The AAP used to have a warning against using seats on top of carts b/c so many injuries happened that way. I'll see if I can find it, it used to be on their carseat reccomendation page. It's not safe. Putting groceries in the bottom of the cart where it's lower to the ground is one thing, placing a baby on top of a cart giving the cart even less stability is another. There is nothing on the cart, even if clipped in that has been shown to keep the carseat on the cart in case it does flip. It could just fly right off. I just don't see the need to risk it. Sometimes we all have to be inconvenienced, either w/ being puked on or waking baby or just not having as much room to shop. If you're 11yo is w/ you, have 2 carts or maybe you just need to wait to all the big shopping till you have someone else w/ you or someone can watch the baby. http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases...oppingcart.htm

[PassionateWriter]

thanks for the links...ive been trying to find this info for a stubborn friend! :_

[Twinklefae]

Does your store provide carts with an infant insert? Our does. They are bolted on and go to 19lbs. I realize tipping is still a risk, but these are much lighter than a regular car seat, being designed for carts. You may have to look or ask for them... our grocery store stores them in a completely different place than the regular carts. I realize this doesn't solve the convienience issue, but it is a comprimise.