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Measles Risks - Page 2

post #21 of 34
newmama, you went the opposite way with it.

Quote:
In otherwords, as i understand you, many more milder cases of measles or those not following the diagnoses path go unreported thereby making the number of reported cases seem to be substantially higher.
If the milder cases or atypical cases are not reported...the reported cases would not only be LOWER than what really exists, they would represent the portion of cases that are more SERIOUS.

Thus skewing the data to appear that measles is much more serious to a smaller population segment than is the reality.
post #22 of 34
Thread Starter 
I think (*lol*) that is what i meant. I should have said that "those not following the diagnoses path go unreported thereby making the number of reported cases seem to be substantially MORE DEADLY"

By deadly, I don't mean it in terms of the morbidity rate being higher but those cases that do exist to be more dangerous. If only 10 cases follow the proper diagnoses and of those 8 land in the hospital, it looks like a very serious dangerous disease. However, if 10 cases get reported but 50 cases are not properly diagnosed, then 8 out of 58 looks a whole lot different.

Is this what I mean? *lol* and what you both mean?
post #23 of 34
Exactly!

hahaha it's funny how what you want to say on the computer sometimes comes across as something totally different.
post #24 of 34
Thread Starter 
So back to this quote:
Quote:
"Let me share with you our experience with measles at Childrens Hospital Los Angeles during the measles epidemic in 1990. We diagnosed 440 cases between January 1st and June 30th. Of these cases 195 (44%) had to be admitted for one or more complications of measles. We documented the complications in all 440 cases and they included 63% with ear infections, 45% with diarrhea, 39% with dehydration, 36% with pneumonia, 19% with croup, and about 3% with other bacterial infections. Three children died all of pneumonia. "
Due to the high vaccination rate with MMR, I am wondering how many could have actually gone undiagnosed. Because if there weren't that many, the complications rate does seem very high to me. Although as someone pointed out, it's questionable as children are not usually admitted to the hospital with ear infections. And nothing was said about the nature of diarrhea and dehydration - how serious the cases were and if they were responding to treatment easily which to me would make a huge difference in qualifying the cases allegedly admitted to the hospital.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Due to the high vaccination rate with MMR, I am wondering how many could have actually gone undiagnosed
That paper I linked to on the first page said it could have been as low as only 3% that were diagnosed/reported. This was in the days of one dose of the MMR, which might only be about 50% effective. So there might have been hundreds of thousands or millions of cases during the late 80's-early 90's epidemic.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post
Here's some opinions from Dr. Mendelsohn. He wrote How to Raise a Health Child in Sprite of Your Doctor. They're older publications (mostly 80s) but it's highly recommended a lot on MDC. I think he has a good grasp on what allopathic medicine can and can't help with.

http://www.*********/vaccines/mendelsohn.html#MEASLES
I thought this was pretty interesting.
Quote:
"Why," you may ask, "in the face of these facts, do doctors continue to give the shots?" The answer may lie in an episode that occurred in California fourteen years after the measles vaccine was introduced. Los Angeles suffered a severe measles epidemic during that year, and parents were urged to vaccinate all children six months of age and older-despite a Public Health Service warning that vaccinating children below the age of one year was useless and potentially harmful.

Although Los Angeles doctors responded by routinely shooting measles vaccine into very kid they could get their hands on, several local physicians familiar with the suspected problems of immunologic failure and "slow virus" dangers chose not to vaccinate their own infant children. Unlike their patients, who weren't told, they realized that "slow viruses" found in all live vaccines, and particularly in the measles vaccine, can hide in human tissue for years. They may emerge later in the form of encephalitis, multiple sclerosis, and as potential seeds for the development and growth of cancer.

One Los Angeles physician who refused to vaccinate his own seven-month-old baby said: "I'm worried about what happens when the vaccine virus may not only offer little protection against measles but may also stay around in the body, working in a way we don't know much about." His concern about the possibility of these consequences for his own child, however, did not cause him to stop vaccinating his infant patients. He rationalized this contradictory behaviour with the comment that "As a parent, I have the luxury of making a choice for my child. As a physician... legally and professionally I have to accept the recommendations of the profession, which is what we also had to do with the whole Swine flu business."
post #27 of 34
Thread Starter 
Mamakay, so for the original quote, even though the reference was for LA, this LA outbreak was part of the outbreak that occurred between 1980 and 1990. So the part of the quote you posted
Quote:
Estimates of completeness of reporting from the 1980s and 1990s vary widely, from 3% to 58%
would apply if you look at the LA hospital rates in relation to what was happening nationally at the time. ?
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by anewmama View Post
Mamakay, so for the original quote, even though the reference was for LA, this LA outbreak was part of the outbreak that occurred between 1980 and 1990. So the part of the quote you posted would apply if you look at the LA hospital rates in relation to what was happening nationally at the time. ?
Right.
post #29 of 34
Okay, so they are saying we have an outbreak of measles in the Milwaukee area. One adult and one child. They are thinking the adult was sick about a week or more before the child. 12 or more exposed childred are in quarantine for two weeks.

They have frequently refered to the '89-'90 outbreak in the state. If IRC, they said that about 1,600 people became ill with the measles, 200 people were hospitalized and 5 died. What got me was the 5 out 1,600 died. That is much higher than the 1 in 1,000 rate. I am thinking, as mentioned before, that there are a lot of people who aren't going to seek medical attention for a rash and a fever if they are managing to get through it. I am also wondering what role the poor state of healthcare coverage might play in the stats as well. We know there are people who get sick and really should see a doc and don't because they can't afford it. So, they suffer through it. I am sure there are plenty more who are moderately sick at times who either have no insurance or poor insurance who deal with it. And what about the people who are smart enough to figure out what they are sick with and know the media will have a hayday with it and choose to self-medicate behind closed doors?
post #30 of 34
Death from Measles (going to Wendy Lydall's book, mayoclinic.com, and I believe Aviva Jill Romm's book) comes from a few things complications (usually from improper treatment but not always), or it hits in an immunocompromised person, or an infant. Remember that people have had Measles for decades as a "rite of passage," same with Mumps. THe majority came out okay because back in those days, a lot of natural wisdom knew how to deal with it properly. A lot more people came through well vs. those who died, same with Chicken Pox. Personally, I wouldn't mind ds contracting Measles, as long as he was older....5 and up maybe. Measles parties are no different then CP parties, exposure can lead to natural immunity and as long as the parents are educated on what to expect and how to treat, the vast majority will come out well.
post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile7393 View Post
THe majority came out okay because back in those days, a lot of natural wisdom knew how to deal with it properly.
This is one thing that concerns me greatly in today's medical world. It seems as though those things have been trained right out of anyone who knows what to do.
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by anewmama View Post
I am not sure about Mendelsohn's observations.

Here is some interesting data on Switzerland's current outbreak:

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp


There certainly seems to be a surge of measles among unvaccinated.
Yes! I live here and it is a big topic of discussion at the moment. A lot of people here follow homeopathic and/or anthroposophic medicine recommendations and have family physicians that are trained in these methods. I ended up with an anthro/homeo doc for my son randomly through my HMO! And that's actually how I got on the delayed/selective/no vax path. Interesting contrast to the US, eh?

There have been no deaths in Switzerland despite a high number of cases. Many if not most of the patients were treated "alternatively" at least initially and a lot of folks think this is why the disease is no big deal...assuming that the treatment doesn't interfere with the body's natural defense mechanisms.

Anyway, my ds isn't vaxed against measles and yet it seems to be popping up everywhere. I never worried about it before, but now that I'm pregnant and will have a small baby around the house...and ds is now starting kindergarten...I admit to worrying about it A LOT. Even if I shouldn't.
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
The Dr. Sears book says that 1 out of every 1000 people die from the Measles. I wonder why it says that?
there are more deaths in car accidents, every 13 minutes ppl are dying from a car accident

I am eliminating this vax, one less on the list!
post #34 of 34
I have first hand experience,

measles can be quite dangerous and can have severe complications. You see, when I had measles I was jumping on the bed and I fell and cut my head. My mom took me to the doc (had to go in the back way to avoid infecting anyone else) and got stitches.

So my advice, no jumping on the bed if you catch measles!



Quote:
Originally Posted by anewmama View Post
I am having a hard time sorting out just how dangerous measles is. I am sifting through very conflicting information AND opinion: it's no big deal, kids used to always get it, my grandmother had it and so did all her siblings, no big deal, my grandmother had it and was left deaf, my grandmother's child had seizures, complications rates ARE in fact very high, etc.

What I am having a hard time is interpreting the facts of measles. Is there a way it can be discussed without anecdotal information?

What I am really wanting to know is overall (there are always the exceptions of families who did just fine with measles) how do children fair with the disease? What are the risks?
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