Kids telling my DC they are going to H#LL

[QueeTheBean]

I wasn’t sure where to post this—I hope this is OK. I read the guidelines in the Spirituality forum & this didn’t seem to fit there.

Background: DH & I were both raised Catholic, but are now agnostic/atheist and do not go to church. We are respectful of other people's religions, and do not "preach" atheism to our kids. I often tell my kids that they may decide to be religious on their own, and that that is fine with DH & me. We talk about religion frequently & both sets of GP are still very religious.

Problem: Kids at school have been telling my kids (9 and 6) that they are going to Hell bc. they don't go to church. Telling them that they have to believe in God. I am not sure how the conversation comes up--especially with my kindergartener, but this has happened many times. (They go to public school, BTW). I don't like my kids being told this. When I was 17 and still very religious, a good friend told me that I was going to Hell bc. “Catholics don’t believe in Jesus”. Even thought I knew that wasn’t true, it still upset me so much to think a friend of mine truly believed that.

Questions:
1. How do I tell my kids the best way to respond to this?
2. I keep thinking if we were Jewish or Muslim and someone said this, I'd be breaking down the administrations door in fury--but, as an atheist, what "rights" do I have? Conversely, if my kids ever told another student that there is no God (which they would never do--and I have never said this to them), we'd probably be in big trouble . . .
3. Assuming most people on this board are religious, would you want to know if your child was saying this to another child? And if you knew, would you be happy or unhappy about it? I don’t mean that snarky—I am honestly, truly curious to know if very religious folks would feel some pride in knowing that your child was, in a way, professing his faith and/or beginning to evangelize?

[SevenVeils]

That's bizarre.

Members of all religions, including atheism, are equally protected. Your school board may not see it that way, so educate yourself on your rights before approaching them. I'm just assuming here (and we know where that gets us) but it sounds as if you live in a very religious/conservative area, and I'm thinking that the teachers, principal and school board may not take this very seriously.

I would personally find out which children are saying this, and contact their parents to (gently) advise them that this is happening and that your children are being negatively affected. I would hope that the response that I'd get would be something like "oh I had no idea, I'm sorry, I'll take action to stop this from continuing".

If it continued, I'd take it to the teacher first, then principal, then school board in that order. But I've always had success when I approach parents of other kids first.

[artgoddess]

I would talk to the school.

[HarperRose]

Wow. I would not be happy if my kids were told this and we ARE religious.

Equally, I wouldn't be happy if my kids told anyone that because we don't believe it anyway.

Definitely speak to the principal about it because maybe a school-wide note can go home stating ... I don't know. Something???

I'd want the parents in the class to tell their kids, "Hey, not everyone has the same beliefs and it's not nice to tell someone they're gonna die or go to hell." There ARE tactful ways of stating one's beliefs without saying something so crude and, really, untrue. In our beliefs, only God can read your heart and only God can make the call on whether you live or die on judgment day.

Man, you really have a situation. I hope it goes well and something can be done.

[JessasMilkMama]

On the flipside, how much control over your childrens conversations do you want to have? I am not being mean, just pointing out that these things are going to happen. Its one thing to be bullied and picked on, but your kids are going to come across people with different ideas, and they are going to express their own as well. What are you looking for - to protect them from hearing these things? Its probably impossible, so I think that going to the school is the wrong avenue. Its better to discuss with your kids what you believe and what they believe and help them have the self confidence to be who they are.

I also dont see how your kids telling another that there is no God would get you in "big trouble?" - are religious discussions banned in public school playgrounds or what? Am I out of touch?

[gsd1amommy]

This happened to my 5 year old last year. He was the one headed to hell appparently because we do not go to church. I only found out about it after he developed an ear infection and was hallucinating in the drive-thru of McD's. He saw a cruel hand ready to snatch him to into hell. The woman taking our order was freaked. I was freaked. My son was freaked. A few hours later, we were able to talk about it and my son relayed that a boy in his class was telling him all this crap and I was PI$$ED!
I spoke to the teacher and principal and both said it was protected speech. They could not initiate a religious conversation nor could they tell a child to stop. I mentioned it to the kid's parent and she was all like, "we would love to have you at church". Yeah, right...me (my lesbian self), my partner and our 2 boys conceived with donor sperm. Yeah, see ya Sunday

[sapphire_chan]

Snarky question here, aren't the kids being raised to think that only bad people use the word "hell"?

If you don't get anywhere with the school board, I'd go off on their parents about the kids' language.

Oh, and if "you're going to hell" is protected speech, so is "God doesn't exist you UAV" and "what on earth is wrong with your parents?? What kind of people raise a kid to be evil? Don't you have any idea how your words and actions can affect people? Seriously, your whole family is messed up, don't talk to me about hell, you're the crazy ones." Or at least that's what I'd point out to the school board/principal/what have you.

[Benji'sMom]

Originally Posted by QueeTheBean

2. I keep thinking if we were Jewish or Muslim and someone said this, I'd be breaking down the administrations door in fury--but, as an atheist, what "rights" do I have? Conversely, if my kids ever told another student that there is no God (which they would never do--and I have never said this to them), we'd probably be in big trouble . . .

Does the school have some kind of anti bullying or anti harrassment policy? I just think that's as far as you could get. Damning a little kid to hell is pretty scarry, I mean maybe you could say it is harassment. But that's the only way I could see the school not allowing that kind of talk. Because otherwise I think people have the right to say whatever weird thing they want about their religious beliefs.

[bandgeek]

I don't know what to tell you. I'm atheist and I heard crap like that from people at school (when I was older though). I never knew what to say...I just ignored them.

I would consider that harassment though, especially if it's the same kids doing it. I'd go to the principal and let him/her know what's going on. That's NOT ok what they are doing and to be honest, going to the parents first probably won't solve anything because that's probably where the kids are hearing that stuff!

If you don't want to get the school involved, you could teach your kids to let these little bible-beaters know that somewhere in there it says something about "judge not, lest ye be judged" or something like that. I really don't know the bible, you'd have to look it up yourself.

These kids are bullying your kids for not being good little christians, but those kids aren't being good little christians either and they are the ones who are *trying*.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by bandgeek

I would consider that harassment though, especially if it's the same kids doing it. I'd go to the principal and let him/her know what's going on. That's NOT ok what they are doing and to be honest, going to the parents first probably won't solve anything because that's probably where the kids are hearing that stuff!

This is true, but I still think that is the best route. At least give the parents a chance to remedy the situation before going over their heads.

[LotusBirthMama]

we are religious and my children, esp. 4 yo dd, are pretty vocal about Jesus and God. my dd's best friend is a boy who is not being raised in the christian faith at all. he is with us 2x a week. while i don't have a problem with dd talking about God or teaching her friend a song from church, i do encourage her to refrain from prostelyzing. like, if she starts in on him saying, "S...do you love Jesus? you need to ask Him into your heart." I gently remind her that S's mommy teaches him about something different, and hey, lets do XYZ. It works well to distract her.

i would have absolutely no issue with a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, what have you teaching my children about their religion, but if it turned to negativity I would step right on in.

In your case, if you can find out the parents, I would contact them. If they are not receptive or don't seem to care I would for sure go right to the school.

Good luck.

[Doodlebugsmom]

My dd recently came home from school and said that a couple of kids said "if you're bad, you go to the devil." I explained that myself and her dad don't believe that for one single second. I then explained that everyone believes differently, and that isn't part of mine and dh's beliefs. She seemed totally cool with it. We're agnostic, and we talk about other beliefs all the time, so I'm generally ready to explain away.

[mommaof3boz]

We are Christians but do not attend church. Yes Margaret there is such a thing, tee hee. If my kids were telling another child that THEY would be apologizing. While we do believe in salvation thru Jesus Christ, we also know that Jesus would have NEVER used shock and awe tactics to make believers out of people.
I never understand how true Christians can sleep at night feeding their kids heads full of that crap. The poor kids are probably scared to death to even ask questions to clear up their doubts about Jesus for fear they to will go to "hell". And like I said before...I am proud to be a Christian, but so saddened when I hear this nonsense.

[acannon]

Originally Posted by gsd1amommy

This happened to my 5 year old last year. He was the one headed to hell appparently because we do not go to church. I only found out about it after he developed an ear infection and was hallucinating in the drive-thru of McD's. He saw a cruel hand ready to snatch him to into hell. The woman taking our order was freaked. I was freaked. My son was freaked. A few hours later, we were able to talk about it and my son relayed that a boy in his class was telling him all this crap and I was PI$$ED!

: Your poor son. That's so terrible.

[Arduinna]

What I did was give dd a reasonable education in world religions and stressed to her that she was born perfect and was in no need of being saved. I also armed her with all the usual scare tactics used to convert people. This worked really well.

[lotusdebi]

I was raised as an atheist, and I was bullied by Christians from the age of 5 on through high school. What helped me the most was preparing some things to say in response for when ignoring them or rolling my eyes didn't work. The bullying and harassment DID make a difference in my life. I grew up HATING Christians and Christianity as a result. I also became a militant atheist for a while, and made fun of people who believed in something I considered an imaginary friend - or a mass delusion.
I really think that empowering your children is the way to go. By all means, try to get the school to intervene, if possible. But, also find ways to empower your children to get through the bullying with their integrity intact. I wish I had more support when I was going through this.
Good luck!

[mata]

It happens. It's happened to us. I used it as a learning opportunity to teach my dd about how much power we should give people's opinions. I explained to her that the child was just repeating something they had been taught, but that certainly doesn't make it so. Clarifying her own beliefs also helped-did she believe in hell, or the devil, etc. etc., which she doesn't. Now she has an appropriate amount of skepticism toward stuff like that, and doesn't internalize it.

oh, and for now I've decided to give them tools instead of dealing w/parents, school, etc. We are in the minority here and I do think my protesting too much might do more damage than good. Teaching my kids how to stand up to it is effective enough.

[mata]

*

[Ironica]

It sucks when this happens. Fortunately, it didn't happen to me until I was in sixth grade, and by that time I understood my own beliefs fairly well, and was able to respond, "How can I go to hell? I don't BELIEVE in hell."

This is the tricky thing about raising children literally without belief. It's one thing to raise them in your own beliefs, as "none of the above" as they may be... but when you leave them truly open, someone will always try to fill that up.

My mom carefully avoided using the word "atheist" to describe herself or our family for me. One day, I overheard her talking about going to an Atheists United meeting. "You mean, we're atheists?" I asked. She started trying to carefully say something like well, you can be whatever you want to be... but I went on, "Oh, good! I'm so tired of being NOTHING!" It's true. Children seek group identity. As long as they're informed about that identity, and are always free to change it, I don't see it as being *wrong* to meet that craving, and it certainly makes situations like this one simpler.

The book "Parenting Beyond Belief" is really awesome at going through many issues faced by parents raising kids without religion, including this one. I highly recommend it!

[JustVanessa]

Do you believe in hell? If not, tell your child that you don't believe such a place exists.
If this is really bothering your child I would go to the school, and then to the parents if the school won't do anything.