or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Natural Living › The Mindful Home › Pets › Cats - indoor or outdoor?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cats - indoor or outdoor? - Page 7

post #121 of 313
I don't believe it's one way or the other, my parents used to let our kitties outside when we lived in a further out neighborhood, but they were vaccinated and neutered, and they stayed in the yard.

My kitty was a shelter kitty. I take him outside a couple times a week to get fresh air, but I don't let him wander far simply because I'm not down with fleas in my house. However, he usually just prowls around and sniffs things, but he's more interested in being inside.

We made the house suitable for him, he has a fantastic scratching post and our furniture offers plenty of places for him to satisfy his hide and seek nature. I clean his box often and all our window sills are only a foot off the ground and offer a nice place for him to look out.

He's an indoor cat but he's a very happy one!
post #122 of 313
I have three free-range cats on my farm. Yes, they have shortened lifespans, higher risk of disease ect., but I believe those are natural lifespans and natural risks. You could compare it to the different health risks that humans from developed/non developed countries have.
I have never seen them attack birds, there are to busy keeping the mice and moles out of the garden and hay. They are organic pest control.
I don't think that the impact cats have on the environment (where I live) is of any consequence because domestic cats have simply replaced the wild bobcat population that existed here pre-industrial America.

BTW, There are no leash laws where I live, for dogs or cats.
I will mention however that my dog is kept inside when he is not playing or working outside with me. He is the only one of his species living here and needs us for companionship.
post #123 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
Oh! I remember! Even though their cat didn't end up in our trap (even though they ignored my request), two others did. I don't think it's my responsibility to have to try to guess who owns all the cats roaming our neighborhood. It's their owners' responsibility NOT TO LET THEM ROAM.
Nobody is saying you have to guess whose cat it is... my neighbours all know which cats live where. I'm saying basic decency, talk to the person, as you did when you needed to trap a racoon. I would have kept my cat in, no big deal.

Quote:
I adore you, thismama, but I'm REALLY glad you're not my neighbor.
Lots of people around here let their cats out. The neighbours enjoy my cat - the outgoing one, he rolls around in the sidewalk and people stop by and pet him. I've never gotten the feeling anyone thinks I'm a bad neighbour over it.
post #124 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Nobody is saying you have to guess whose cat it is... my neighbours all know which cats live where. I'm saying basic decency, talk to the person, as you did when you needed to trap a racoon. I would have kept my cat in, no big deal.
No, I hear that. I guess my point is that the one cat whose owners I know, I told. We didn't catch that cat--we caught two others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Lots of people around here let their cats out. The neighbours enjoy my cat - the outgoing one, he rolls around in the sidewalk and people stop by and pet him. I've never gotten the feeling anyone thinks I'm a bad neighbour over it.
People let their cats out here, too. I don't like it. I haven't trapped any cats and taken them to the pound, yet, and I don't hose them out of my yard, but I suspect that'll change when we have kids.

I love cats--I must, we have SEVEN of the freakin' things--and I'll pet friendly cats who are on my deck or whatever. But do I ENJOY the fact that they're killing the birds and pooping under my deck? No, I don't. If you poll your neighbors, I suspect they'd have similar feelings--love the cat, but it's YOUR cat, you should be responsible for keeping it from harm/harming others (and that includes pooping hither and yon).
post #125 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
I have a big huge friendly male tom cat in my garage. I dare, dare the owner of that cat to cause a stink with me. Upon investigating this morning in the daylight, I have learned he sprayed my daughter's wagon, and dug up a good portion of my garden about 3 feet where my daughter plays on the concrete with her side walk chalk. There are strange-cat feces out there, and the dirt he used to covered it up is kicked all over the drive way. So now, I have to put on rubber gloves and go outside and pick up someone ELSE'S cat poop, sweep the dirt back into the garden, disinfect the spot since we've already received ringworm from the cats around here, who knows what this one has, and then clean my daughters wagon.
It sounds like the cat is not neutered and so is causing a lot of problems. Obviously cats that go outdoors need to be fixed, otherwise they are contributing to overpopulation. If I were you I would talk to the neighbours, which you should ALWAYS do with a problem instead of being passive aggressive about it. Passive aggression is just courting a big neighbour problem.

Quote:
I think the neighborly thing to do would be to keep YOUR cat on YOUR property. Why would you feel you have the right to allow your cat to sleep on my car or come onto my property? Because I haven't said otherwise? My neighbors haven't said I can't swim in their pool either, should I walk down there after breakfast and go for a swim?
Oh gawd, the 'my private property oh noes!!!' argument. That wouldn't go very far with me, I find it extremely distasteful. If the cat is causing you a problem, let people know. That is the best advice I have for you.

Quote:
You know, I could really care less about cats that go out and sit on the deck, roll in the grass, and come inside. I mean, there's always going to be a risk that something bad might happen (cat gets spooked and runs into the road, stray dog comes by and attacks), but it's not bothering me, so I really don't care.
Okay yeah, if you only have an issue when you are being bothered, that is understandable. But I would focus on that instead of the 'my property' angle. Especially if you ever want to get stray bouncy balls etc back when they go over your neighbours' fences or otherwise want pleasant relations.
post #126 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
No, I hear that. I guess my point is that the one cat whose owners I know, I told. We didn't catch that cat--we caught two others.
Well, if you told them, and they still let their cats out, that is inconsiderate.

Quote:
People let their cats out here, too. I don't like it.
I say people gotta deal. Unless it is actually causing you a real problem. I deal with firepits, music, honking cars, etc etc. That's part of living in a neighbourhood. Real problems I address with people, but I try to be flexible and chill about most minor annoyances that are not really affecting my life. I expect the same in return from my neighbours.
post #127 of 313
Growing up we always had cats that would come and go as they pleased. I am firmly against that. My parent's one cat was always getting in to fights and ended up dying young. That was when they made the decision that all future cats would be indoor only.

My three cats are all indoors. Two are leash trained, so occasionally DH will hook a leash to one of the two and let them walk in our yard. Cats, unlike dogs, walk on leashes where they want to, not where you want them too

We have tons of owned, outdoor cats in our neighborhood. This causes a problem for us because strange cats come up on our porch and harass our cats through the window. Also, even though we have nice garbage cans with lids, more than once a cat has managed to get in to them and our trash has been spread all over our lawn : And I don't believe it is a dog because I have never, ever seen an unleashed dog in my neighborhood.

Added to this, the outdoor cats in our area all fight with each other. It is sad.

So yes, I believe in keeping them indoors at all times, unless they will let you take them out on a leash once in a while.
post #128 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
I have a big huge friendly male tom cat in my garage. I dare, dare the owner of that cat to cause a stink with me. Upon investigating this morning in the daylight, I have learned he sprayed my daughter's wagon, and dug up a good portion of my garden about 3 feet where my daughter plays on the concrete with her side walk chalk. There are strange-cat feces out there, and the dirt he used to covered it up is kicked all over the drive way. So now, I have to put on rubber gloves and go outside and pick up someone ELSE'S cat poop, sweep the dirt back into the garden, disinfect the spot since we've already received ringworm from the cats around here, who knows what this one has, and then clean my daughters wagon.

I think the neighborly thing to do would be to keep YOUR cat on YOUR property. Why would you feel you have the right to allow your cat to sleep on my car or come onto my property? Because I haven't said otherwise? My neighbors haven't said I can't swim in their pool either, should I walk down there after breakfast and go for a swim?
...
LOL! (not laughing to make fun...that was honestly funny)
it's not that i feel (and i'm speaking for myself here) that I have a right to let my cat go on people's cars or onto other's property. Actually I assume that most people don't want him on their property. It really just comes down to training your cat. He doesn't have a right to be on your "property." But cats don't get property in the way humans do. So you have to train them to not want to go on other people's property. If there is no cat, dog or human that is menacing enough to keep them away they will go back.

The one way I DON'T treat him like my child is I actually will threaten physical violence with the cat. I've never actually hit him...but I pretend that I am going to...mostly because you can't sit there and rationalize with a cat.

"Barbara doesn't want you on her porch, Ozzy." Isn't going to work.

So I look at him, mean-like, raise my hand and snap. He knows what that means. That's something I would never do with a child.

And like I said, there have only been two incidences (that I know of) and both times a few applications of that threat worked to keep him off.

I agree its not your responsibility to train the cat...but wouldn't chasing the tom in your garage, out with a broom, or pots and pans banged together- to keep him out for GOOD- be quicker than

"put(ting) on rubber gloves and go outside and pick up someone ELSE'S cat poop, sweep the dirt back into the garden, disinfect the spot since we've already received ringworm from the cats around here, who knows what this one has, and then clean my daughters wagon."
??
not to mention, since it bothers you so much...it might create some sort of release for the pent up frustration you're experiencing because of past bad experiences with diseased cats.
post #129 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*Jaime View Post
Also, even though we have nice garbage cans with lids, more than once a cat has managed to get in to them and our trash has been spread all over our lawn : And I don't believe it is a dog because I have never, ever seen an unleashed dog in my neighborhood.
My bet would be that is raccoons. I keep a tight lid on my garbage and it's not a problem, only if I leave bags out loose or forget to put the lid on.
post #130 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I've never gotten the feeling anyone thinks I'm a bad neighbor over it.
Are you assuming it's Ok to let your cat out in the neighborhood, or have you actually talked to people about it? Because up thread it seemed like you were saying that it's Ok until someone tells you otherwise (re: being "neighborly" before taking action). It shouldn't work that way. We should all respect other people's personal property by not using it, or letting our pets use it, without express permission from the owner of the property. If you haven't received permission for your cat to be there, then your neighbors might just be acting polite to avoid confrontation (and I know several people who wouldn't confront you, because if you are the type to think you have the right to let your cat roam the neighborhood, you are probably not the type that is easily approachable, self entitlement and all [not saying you are, but some people may assume that]).

As far as people petting your outgoing cat, that's not an indication that your neighbors are Ok with him being out. When we first moved here we had a neighbor who walked his dog off leash and it frequently came onto our porch and peed on our stuff. It was a very friendly dog. I often said hi to the dog, even patted his head a few times.. and then I would ask the man to keep his dog off my property. It's not the dog's fault, it's the owners fault. The dog was doing what any dog would do - leaving his scent where he knew other dogs had been. My acknowledging a friendly dog didn't mean I was Ok with it coming onto my property. As a side note, the dog has since been hit and killed by a car for being off leash.
post #131 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
My bet would be that is raccoons. I keep a tight lid on my garbage and it's not a problem, only if I leave bags out loose or forget to put the lid on.
I agree with that--it's raccoons. Nasty little cuties.
post #132 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
Are you assuming it's Ok to let your cat out in the neighborhood, or have you actually talked to people about it?
Oh yeah, I took around a poll when I moved in and gave out lollipops to try to get people onside. Just like people asked me about their firepits, backing their SUVs out of their driveways at top pace, their music, and how fast I would like them to drive down the street.

To be honest, I don't care if people are 'okay' with my cat being out. If my cat is bothering someone in a tangible, direct way, that would be different. But beyond that, I don't give a crap what people's personal opinions are.

Truly I don't get any kind of a vibe that it is a big deal in my neighbourhood that the cats go out, a lot of them do and it's just part of life. We have bigger problems around here.
post #133 of 313
Thread Starter 
This was asked previously, but I haven't seen an answer yet.

For those of you that believe cats should be given their freedom outside, do you feel the same about dogs?

What about communities (like mine) that have a leash law that applies to ALL pets? Do you feel that such a law is wrong, and therefore it's OK to ignore it? Or have you made an effort to change the law in your community, so that it doesn't apply to cats?
post #134 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Oh yeah, I took around a poll when I moved in and gave out lollipops to try to get people onside. Just like people asked me about their firepits, backing their SUVs out of their driveways at top pace, their music, and how fast I would like them to drive down the street.

To be honest, I don't care if people are 'okay' with my cat being out. If my cat is bothering someone in a tangible, direct way, that would be different. But beyond that, I don't give a crap what people's personal opinions are.

Truly I don't get any kind of a vibe that it is a big deal in my neighbourhood that the cats go out, a lot of them do and it's just part of life. We have bigger problems around here.
LOL!!

I did actually ask our neighbors. (The ones on either side of me--I didn't go door to door to 152 apartments) And my landlord. Everyone was fine with it. The landlord said she let her cat out too. (She lives in the same complex). She just said to look out for animal control and that if he was a nuisance cat (if she got any complaints) she would have to change her stance. So I figure, if there was a problem, we would hear about it.
post #135 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post
This was asked previously, but I haven't seen an answer yet.

For those of you that believe cats should be given their freedom outside, do you feel the same about dogs?
Cats and dogs are different creatures... dogs have more sense of territorial boundaries, can be easily contained with fences, can be walked on leashes without being terrorized, etc. It's not an equal comparison.

Quote:
What about communities (like mine) that have a leash law that applies to ALL pets? Do you feel that such a law is wrong, and therefore it's OK to ignore it? Or have you made an effort to change the law in your community, so that it doesn't apply to cats?
I would just disregard the leash law... I don't know if we have one here that applies to cats. If we do obviously I am disregarding it.
post #136 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
LOL! (not laughing to make fun...that was honestly funny)
I honestly don't see what you think was funny about that, unless you were laughing at me to make me feel ashamed? It's not funny that both my daughter and I have had ringworm because of strange cats on our property. It's not funny that my daughter has gotten cat poop stuck in her sandals. It's not funny that I have to wait for my husband to get home so we can go outside and play (have you ever tried to clean poo and cat spray with a 2 year old "helping" you?). My respect for a person who thinks that is funny is pretty close to nil.

Quote:
Actually I assume that most people don't want him on their property. It really just comes down to training your cat. He doesn't have a right to be on your "property." But cats don't get property in the way humans do.

<snip>

I agree its not your responsibility to train the cat

DING DING DING!! So if you have a cat that is not trained to stay in YOUR yard, don't let it out. Simple. Real simple.

Quote:
...but wouldn't chasing the tom in your garage, out with a broom, or pots and pans banged together- to keep him out for GOOD- be quicker than

"put(ting) on rubber gloves and go outside and pick up someone ELSE'S cat poop, sweep the dirt back into the garden, disinfect the spot since we've already received ringworm from the cats around here, who knows what this one has, and then clean my daughters wagon."
This will be the 6th cat that I've trapped (and possibly sterilized, if he's not chipped) since November. If I sterilize this cat, my neighborhood will qualify with the county to be registered as a feral cat colony. Do a search of my posts, I just dealt with a litter of kittens that showed up here, and this cat may in fact be the father. I'm now up to 2 toms, one mature (in heat at the time she was caught) female, and 3 kittens. No cat leaves this property without being spayed and neutered, and tested for FIP/FLV/FIV. Period. I pay for this out pocket, because a.) feral cats are an epidemic, and one breeding pair can create thousands upon thousands of cats in just a matter of years. Since they are hanging out near MY property, I am going to do something about. Some neighbors have even chipped in to the cost of it. And b.) I have two cats who I care dearly about, one of which was one of the kittens, and if by chance they got out, I don't want them to be attacked by a feral cat this is possibly positive for a deadly disease. I feel morally and ethically responsible to preserve my neighborhood and deal with this problem, a problem that an irresponsible pet owner/cruddy neighbor caused. More so, I want to preserve MY PROPERTY, and keep it safe and clean so my family can enjoy it. Banging some pots is not going to deter a tom cat. Been there, tried that.
post #137 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post
This was asked previously, but I haven't seen an answer yet.

For those of you that believe cats should be given their freedom outside, do you feel the same about dogs?

What about communities (like mine) that have a leash law that applies to ALL pets? Do you feel that such a law is wrong, and therefore it's OK to ignore it? Or have you made an effort to change the law in your community, so that it doesn't apply to cats?
i believe it should apply to the animal. if you are unsure of your pets comfort level (i was a petsitter, some dogs could NOT be trusted to walk by your side, no matter what) then they should be on a leash.

if your dog or cat is fine with people. will not jump up (even in a friendly way), will not even walk up to random people (my mom was attacked by a dog and is therefore afraid of any dogs not on leashes), then leave him off the leash. the reason i see leashes as a viable option for dogs is that I've never heard of someone being mauled by a cat. but some dogs get BIG. and people like my mom have been viciously attacked for no reason.

when i went to amsterdam there were no leash laws. dogs everywhere in a major city just walking around with their owners. most didn't even sniff at passers-by. the ones that did, were invariably on leashes. this kind of unwritten law seemed to make the most sense to me.

i would like to see American communities adopt a law like this. I think it preserves the individuality and here's my word again, autonomy, of the animal. i don't even bother to find out the leash laws in the communities i have lived in so i guess that puts me in the "i think its ridiculous so i ignore it" category.
post #138 of 313
North..CHILL OUT.

I was laughing about you walking down to your neighbors house and taking a dip in their pool!

and as for you feeling a personal moral responsibility to rid your neighborhood of the cat plague...well that's very gallant of you...would you like some sort of reward?

I'm sorry your neighborhood is sowing some not so great results of an irresponsible pet owner...but just like you...i am maintaining that I AM NOT one of those irresponsible pet owners. my cat goes to the vet. he gets flea and worm treatments. he gets scolded and yelled at and it works if he does something he's not supposed to. he's not making babies. and really he never gets into any fights. he does disappear for days (2-3 usually). I suspect he likes to go into the woods and chill out.

you're talking about feral cats and feral cat colonies.
i'm talking about my house cat who likes to go outside. which is what i thought this post was about.
post #139 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
the reason i see leashes as a viable option for dogs is that I've never heard of someone being mauled by a cat. but some dogs get BIG. and people like my mom have been viciously attacked for no reason.
I'm no more afraid of the neighborhood cats then I am of my neighbors yappy little off leash mutt-thing. Being attacked is not the only reason for you to leash and/or be in control of your pet. Property destruction is a huge reason.
post #140 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
you're talking about feral cats and feral cat colonies.
i'm talking about my house cat who likes to go outside. which is what i thought this post was about.
How do you think feral colonies are started? All it takes is one nice, friendly house kitty to "accidentaly" birth a litter of kittens born outside for there to be a handful of wild cats, who will intern breed and produce more wild cats.

If you are a responsible pet owner, who has a healthy well trained cat, you are not the problem. The problem is owners who blatantly disregard the laws and intentionally disrespect their neighbors by maintaining the right to allow their cat free range of the neighborhood. If that doesn't apply to you, disregard everything I am saying.

I'm pretty chilled. The solution is simple. If your cat wanders, keep it inside and away from my property, or I will trap it. There's nothing to get worked up about. I am within the law.

Yeah, it's sad that outdoor cats kill birds and stuff. It's certainly something to take into account. But I'm far more concerned with disrespecting my neighbors or loosing my cat then I am of a dead bird.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Pets
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Natural Living › The Mindful Home › Pets › Cats - indoor or outdoor?