Cats - indoor or outdoor? - Page 8

[AbbottsMomma]

[QUOTE=chirp;11010910]he does disappear for days (2-3 usually). I suspect he likes to go into the woods and chill out. QUOTE]

Chirp, I hate to say this but.... I think your cat is having an affair.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by chirp

North..CHILL OUT.

would you like some sort of reward?

Uhg. I don't know how conversations devolve into attitudes like this. You know what, I am angry, and I'll chill out when I don't have to get up every morning and clean cat shit. And nope, I don't want a reward, just a poop and pee free yard for my kid to play in. Not being awakened in the middle of the night because of cat fights. Not having to clean garbage off the driveway because a cat climbed into the bins. I'm so over this problem, and it's so frustrating to read about people being proud of disregarding the laws that are supposed to eradicate problems like this. It's really disheartening, and makes all this feel like a big up hill battle. Some cats may be fixed and dewormed, but I see just as many "house cats" causing the same problems. It's really rude, and yeah, it pisses me off. Sorry that bothers you so much.

Anyway, I'm unsubbing. This is going to go in circles. And besides, I have to get dressed and take the cat I trapped last night in to be scanned for a chip anyway.

I'm out.

[chirp]

AbbottsMomma

LOL...that is what my neighbor says too. If he didn't come back hungry I would suspect so as well. But when he comes back he's always acting like he hasn't eaten in those 2-3 days...so...i'm assuming if he is having an affair its with a not-so-nice owner who doesn't feed him.

or maybe he just knows how to play on me.

i'll leave water out for him when he is not around, but i don't leave food out because i don't want to attract wild animals. we have turkeys and coyotes along with the usual raccoons and possums and stray cats. I can't afford to feed the wildlife.

and if he is having an affair, oh well. all i have to say is, whose bed is he sleeping in right now? MINE!

hehehehe

[thismama]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

How do you think feral colonies are started? All it takes is one nice, friendly house kitty to "accidentaly" birth a litter of kittens born outside for there to be a handful of wild cats, who will intern breed and produce more wild cats.

If you are a responsible pet owner, who has a healthy well trained cat, you are not the problem. The problem is owners who blatantly disregard the laws and intentionally disrespect their neighbors by maintaining the right to allow their cat free range of the neighborhood. If that doesn't apply to you, disregard everything I am saying.

You are conflating indoor/outdoor pets with feral cats and unneutered outdoor pets - two really different issues. I don't think anyone will disagree that unfixed outdoor cats are a really, really bad idea and will contribute to cat overpopulation.

I'm pretty chilled. The solution is simple. If your cat wanders, keep it inside and away from my property, or I will trap it. There's nothing to get worked up about. I am within the law.

Well I'd be within the law to call about every firepit, every fast approach down the street in a vehicle, every time I smell some weed. I could go around measuring everyone's fences to make sure they're not too tall, or that secondary buildings on the lot like sheds are xyz feet away from the edge of the property. But really... it doesn't make for the best neighbourly relations.

And I have better things to do with my time than try to intentionally cause drama for other people, and possibly risk euthanasia of pet cats that people may not find at the pound in time or may not have money to liberate them. I really don't think much of people who would be selfish enough to do that instead of just sucking it up if it's about their simple judgment that cats shouldn't be outside, or talking to the neighbours if there is a real problem.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by chirp

and if he is having an affair, oh well. all i have to say is, whose bed is he sleeping in right now? MINE!

hehehehe

It's like that old Reba MacEntire/Linda Evans song... "Does he love you like he loves me? Does he think of you when he's hooooooooolding me????"

[thismama]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

Uhg. I don't know how conversations devolve into attitudes like this. You know what, I am angry, and I'll chill out when I don't have to get up every morning and clean cat shit. And nope, I don't want a reward, just a poop and pee free yard for my kid to play in. Not being awakened in the middle of the night because of cat fights. Not having to clean garbage off the driveway because a cat climbed into the bins. I'm so over this problem, and it's so frustrating to read about people being proud of disregarding the laws that are supposed to eradicate problems like this. It's really disheartening, and makes all this feel like a big up hill battle. Some cats may be fixed and dewormed, but I see just as many "house cats" causing the same problems. It's really rude, and yeah, it pisses me off. Sorry that bothers you so much.

Anyway, I'm unsubbing. This is going to go in circles. And besides, I have to get dressed and take the cat I trapped last night in to be scanned for a chip anyway.

I'm out.

It sounds like your situation is not like the situation in most neighbourhoods re: indoor/outdoor, well cared for, spayed and neutered, PET cats. And that's fine, it sounds really bad and I feel for you. But please consider that you are projecting anger at a lot of us who are not talking about letting cats out into a situation like you are describing.

My neighbourhood is a poor one and there are abandoned cats around. We do the best we can for them and try to make sure the pet cats are inside by evening so the feral ones can eat. They sometimes pee around the house, but apart from that they are a non issue. So I don't live in happy sunshine cat world, but your situation is extreme and not reflective of the reality of cats who go outdoors in most neighbourhoods.

[AbbottsMomma]

Originally Posted by chirp

AbbottsMomma

LOL...that is what my neighbor says too. If he didn't come back hungry I would suspect so as well. But when he comes back he's always acting like he hasn't eaten in those 2-3 days...so...i'm assuming if he is having an affair its with a not-so-nice owner who doesn't feed him.

or maybe he just knows how to play on me.

i'll leave water out for him when he is not around, but i don't leave food out because i don't want to attract wild animals. we have turkeys and coyotes along with the usual raccoons and possums and stray cats. I can't afford to feed the wildlife.

and if he is having an affair, oh well. all i have to say is, whose bed is he sleeping in right now? MINE!

hehehehe

Haha. I love it.

[grahamsmom98]

I do not agree with allowing feral colonies to continue. The idea that they keep new cats away is dandy, but they are still preying on native wildlife. These introduced cats do not have a natural place in the local environment.

We have folks dump kittens (and, adult cats) where we live. We're in the country and people seem to assume that everyone living in the country wants to have cats around to deal with rodents. No, many of us don't!

Our neighbors up the hill raise llamas and have a big barn and many cats that have not been spayed/neutered and their offspring come down to our place (it all started with just two cats, a couple of years ago). NONE of these cats are licensed, nor taken to the vet for anything. They are not collared.

So, when the cats come down to our property, they get trapped and taken to the vet. For $5.00 each, they get euthanized. Same goes with cats/kittens that get dumped out here by irresponsible owners.

The nearest shelter that accepts cats is 90 miles away and there is no way I am driving 180 miles, round-trip just to save cats that nobody wants in the first place.

We have a dear friend with a cat. She also loves hummingbirds and has many feeders for them. Every year, she complains (mildly and with an oh-what-can-you-do? attitude) about how she has to scold her cat for catching the hummingbirds. She talks about how the cat lies in wait in the shrubs near the feeders and snatches them, mid-air. She describes, with pride in her voice, about what an amazing hunter her cat is.

Last year, the killed hummingbird count was 45 birds (we actually saw the pile of bird beaks she had collected from under the table in her sun porch where the cat likes to take its trophies. Ds counted them : ). All this from a cat that is an indoor/outdoor cat. We told her that the cat should not be allowed to roam and that we don't want to hear about her little bundle of fur's kill record anymore. That she really shouldn't put out feeders anymore if she won't keep the cat inside. She couldn't understand our reaction.

We've been asked to care for her house when she has been on vacation and we do not allow her cat outside during those times (even though she said to leave the cat outside). I bring the litter box inside from her sun porch and the food dishes, too. The cat has been perfectly fine in the house. No torn-up anything, no soiling anywhere but its box.

Why she feels that it is okay for the cat to be outside and actively killing birds is beyond me. :

Another weird thing, she always brings the cat inside at night so it won't be grabbed by an owl. Apparently, it's okay for the cat to eat birds, but not for the birds to eat the cat.

Ugh...........

[~PurityLake~]

Yep, two different situations being talked about on this thread.

One is about neutered (applies to male and female, but usually used to describe male castration cause people don't like the word castrate), healthy, vaccinated pets occasionally venturing unsupervised outdoors, and not harassing neighbors. Here the concern is the safety of those pets.

The other is about unhealthy, intact, possible infectious and contagious, animals, possibly someone's uncared for pet or a feral offspring of someone's unneutered pet creating filth and destruction. Here there is concern for the health, safety and comfort of the human and animal residents of that neighborhood.

Had to summarize.

Originally Posted by she

I will also be getting a couple of barn cats when I start having to store animal feed in the barn. I will be getting semi-feral rescues for the job - they need an appropriate home, too, and their lack of social graces make them poor pets in the conventional sense.

This is a wonderful idea. When I was employed by a pet store/pet rescue/pet vet clinic/pet training/community educating place in Madison, WI, one thing the owner did was only sell animals who were homeless.
She was called when strays were spotted, when someone's unneutered pet became unexpectedly pregnant and they needed to find homes for the puppies/kittens, and such situations like that.
Every single animal brought to her was neutered, vaccinated, dewormed, disease tested (FELUK/FIV for cats, stool testing for all of them in 3 week cycles), and the dogs included free training/socialization classes.
The owners of the moms/dads producing the unwanted litters were encouraged to allow her vets to neuter them.
We were quite successful in encouraging those pet owners to neuter their pets to avoid more unwanted litters.
There are a lot of farms around Madison and we also received loads of feral cats.
One time in particular I remember we had 80 cats in our intake room, in cages, all with ringworm and upper respiratory diseases that seemed resistant to medical treatment.
It took me 8 hours to properly clean their cages, litter boxes, food and water bowls, medicate and treat their ringworm and upper respiratory infections (which sometimes left me scratched up at the least) and give those who liked humans some affection.
For most of those feral cats, the only choice in the local shelter for a non-pet was euthanasia.
My boss didn't like that idea and neither did her employees (including me).
So we came up with the idea of post-sterilization and after they were healthy, finding them farm homes (the land owners were willing participants).
They could remain feral, have some kind of life, be healthy, not produce more unwanted kitties and be relatively safe in rural Wisconsin farmland.

Originally Posted by frog

I agree with that--it's raccoons. Nasty little cuties.

Completely irrelevant to the topic, but I had to say there are no raccoons in Alaska, so we blame the moose and bears. lol

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

It's not funny that both my daughter and I have had ringworm because of strange cats on our property. It's not funny that my daughter has gotten cat poop stuck in her sandals. It's not funny that I have to wait for my husband to get home so we can go outside and play (have you ever tried to clean poo and cat spray with a 2 year old "helping" you?). My respect for a person who thinks that is funny is pretty close to nil.

DING DING DING!! So if you have a cat that is not trained to stay in YOUR yard, don't let it out. Simple. Real simple.

This will be the 6th cat that I've trapped (and possibly sterilized, if he's not chipped) since November. If I sterilize this cat, my neighborhood will qualify with the county to be registered as a feral cat colony. Do a search of my posts, I just dealt with a litter of kittens that showed up here, and this cat may in fact be the father. I'm now up to 2 toms, one mature (in heat at the time she was caught) female, and 3 kittens. No cat leaves this property without being spayed and neutered, and tested for FIP/FLV/FIV. Period. I pay for this out pocket, because a.) feral cats are an epidemic, and one breeding pair can create thousands upon thousands of cats in just a matter of years. Since they are hanging out near MY property, I am going to do something about. Some neighbors have even chipped in to the cost of it. And b.) I have two cats who I care dearly about, one of which was one of the kittens, and if by chance they got out, I don't want them to be attacked by a feral cat this is possibly positive for a deadly disease. I feel morally and ethically responsible to preserve my neighborhood and deal with this problem, a problem that an irresponsible pet owner/cruddy neighbor caused. More so, I want to preserve MY PROPERTY, and keep it safe and clean so my family can enjoy it. Banging some pots is not going to deter a tom cat. Been there, tried that.

I say YAY for you, North, for doing your part to help reduce this problem in your neighborhood.
It is a nasty job and you are taking an active role in PERMANENTLY ending this problem, instead of a quick fix.
I understand how frustrating it is to have to take care of a situation caused by irresponsible pet owners (and I'm not saying anyone on this thread is one of those people who allow unhealthy, unneutered cats to cause problems, I'm referring to the situation North is forced to deal with).

Clearly the cats that terrorize your neighborhood are not the cats owned by posters to this thread.
That is quite clear that those are two completely separate issues.
However, even clean, healthy, neutered, trained, tame and affectionate cats can be pests when their owners allow them to roam unsupervised.

[thekimballs]

Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~

Yep, two different situations being talked about on this thread.

One is about neutered (applies to male and female, but usually used to describe male castration cause people don't like the word castrate), healthy, vaccinated pets occasionally venturing unsupervised outdoors, and not harassing neighbors. Here the concern is the safety of those pets.

No. Still an unacceptable environmental impact.

[thismama]

So does car driving. And lots of other things.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by thekimballs

No. Still an unacceptable environmental impact.

sorry, I wasn't discussing the environmental aspect. I knew I left something out.

But I guess I assumed that was a given that cats outdoors have a negative environmental impact.

[thekimballs]

Originally Posted by thismama

So does car driving. And lots of other things.

Yes. Which is exactly why we recycle, minimize driving, don't own a car too big for us, have an efficient heater, insulate our house, etc. The correct response to "Stuff has environmental impact" is not "OK, so then I can do whatever I want." It's "How can I minimize that impact?"

Keeping cats in is not only better for the cat, better for the neighborhood, better for other people's cats and dogs, it's better for the environment. It's a total win-win. That's why I'm so astounded that people are proud that their cats are running around, disappearing for days, hunting, etc. NONE of that is good.

[thismama]

I minimize my cats' impact by having them neutered, not letting them out too early or late, putting a bell on the collar of the one that would hunt birds. That's good enough for me.

Indoor cats are NOT a total win win. They are not fun to live with, many of them, because they are too cooped up. Plus they are dirty and contribute to allergies.

[littleaugustbaby]

Originally Posted by thekimballs

That's why I'm so astounded that people are proud that their cats are running around, disappearing for days, hunting, etc. NONE of that is good.

I'm sorry, but don't you breed dogs? What about the environmental impact of animal breeding? Even if you're a responsible breeder, breeding still leads to perfectly good, healthy animals being euthanized, and then generally dumped in landfills. It's just really hard to sit back and repeatedly hear you lecture on how everyone else is contributing to environmental problems, when you yourself do things that contribute as well. It's the pot calling the kettle black here.

[thismama]

VERY good point LAB.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Originally Posted by littleaugustbaby

I'm sorry, but don't you breed dogs? What about the environmental impact of animal breeding? Even if you're a responsible breeder, breeding still leads to perfectly good, healthy animals being euthanized, and then generally dumped in landfills. It's just really hard to sit back and repeatedly hear you lecture on how everyone else is contributing to environmental problems, when you yourself do things that contribute as well. It's the pot calling the kettle black here.

There's a thread all about the differences between responsible breeding and rescue/euthed dogs a few days ago. In a nutshell : there's really very little connection.

[WaitingForKiddos]

So, as I'm reading this thread the cat that 'stays in his yard' is pooping in my garden. Any of you folks who let your cats out wanna' come clean it up? Looks like a wormy one too.

[KayleeZoo]

I'm sorry, but don't you breed dogs? What about the environmental impact of animal breeding? Even if you're a responsible breeder, breeding still leads to perfectly good, healthy animals being euthanized, and then generally dumped in landfills. It's just really hard to sit back and repeatedly hear you lecture on how everyone else is contributing to environmental problems, when you yourself do things that contribute as well. It's the pot calling the kettle black here.

Huh? This is completely illogical. There is a market for purebred dogs. Many people do not want a mixed breed. There are always going to be idiot breeders who do so without any genetics knowledge whatsoever. Maintaining correct breed standards is a very different topic altogether than contributing to enviornmental problems (ie- animals that people don't want).

AND well-bred animals do not end up in shelters as often as backyard-bred animals do. This is largely due to the fact that good, responsible breeders request that the animals they place always come back to them- being relinquished to a shelter isn't an option. Responsible breeders like Joanna are not contributing to any enviornmental issues

[AbbottsMomma]

Our cat does his best not to impact the environment. He always places his half-caf latte cups in the proper trash receptacles.