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Cats - indoor or outdoor? - Page 10

post #181 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post
For those of you that believe cats should be given their freedom outside, do you feel the same about dogs?
No, they're different animals. My dog gets outside, she bolts. I have to run down the street after her. My cats get outside, they stay in the yard. Cats are much more likely to stay in their own area, their "home" than dogs.

If I lived on a ranch with many acres, I might let a dog roam free if I knew it would stay close by.


Quote:
Originally Posted by littleaugustbaby View Post
I'm sorry, but don't you breed dogs? What about the environmental impact of animal breeding? Even if you're a responsible breeder, breeding still leads to perfectly good, healthy animals being euthanized, and then generally dumped in landfills. It's just really hard to sit back and repeatedly hear you lecture on how everyone else is contributing to environmental problems, when you yourself do things that contribute as well. It's the pot calling the kettle black here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbottsMomma View Post
Our cat does his best not to impact the environment. He always places his half-caf latte cups in the proper trash receptacles.
post #182 of 313
nevermind. Meant to do a new thread. Sorry.
post #183 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
You would be fined. It would go up incrementally everytime it happened, until you reached the point where you would be forced to pay a permanent fine in the form of a more expensive license tag for your pet that has been deemed a "nuisance animal". Instead of 30 dollars annually, I think it's $150.
Zeus goes out for a few hours a day, he never stays out at night. There is NO LAW into our city that says my cat isn't allowed to be outside unsupervised. He was first tattooed, then chipped because the technology became available.

If I was fined because he was out for a couple hours, I would fight it.

I have to say, if you trapped my cat because he was on your property and didn't first talk to me about it being an issue, we would have a problem.

And FYI, I have several gardens, I find cat poop in there that doesn't belong to Zeus (he has an outdoor litterbox) and I just throw it out. I certainly don't throw a big temper tantrum about finding it there. Its DIRT, they're CATS. Its no big shock that they'd use it if they needed to.

I think its really sad that this forum is such an unfriendly place. I participate in most of the other forums and this is the only one with headhunters.

As a pet owner I DECIDE what is best for my animal. I care for him and ensure he is healthy and happy. If you don't like that I don't care. But you have NO RIGHT to call me an irresponsible pet owner because you disagree.

If you can show me what damage he is doing, I'll fix it. But until then, since you don't know my cat, don't tell me that he is destructive and annoying.
post #184 of 313
I hate free roaming cats. They like to come in my yard and poop on my grass. I don't even have that big of a yard. It's highly annoying, we planted a small patch of grass just for the girls to play ball on and every day a cat poops on it.
Either that or they walk through my garden and squash everything in sight.

All of that said, we have a cat, we let her outdoors sometimes.... but its on a leash and a run similar to a dog run.
post #185 of 313
If you want to discuss how breeding dogs may or may not affect the environment, please start another thread so I can adequately respond to it there--I don't want to keep hijacking this one. Anyway, it's an ad hominem argument (attacking the person instead of addressing the issue)--the question is do outdoor (indoor/outdoor) cats affect the environment.
post #186 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage_SS View Post
Zeus goes out for a few hours a day, he never stays out at night. There is NO LAW into our city that says my cat isn't allowed to be outside unsupervised.
I have no desire to participate in the topic of this thread anymore, but I wanted to address this because I was born and raised in British Columbia, was an SPCA volunteer, and a shelter volunteer and feral colony volunteer through out BC for various organizations. If you tell me where you are, I will be happy to point you in the direction of the leash laws. If you are in the lower mainland, I can almost guarantee there is a leash by law in effect.
post #187 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayleeZoo View Post
As long as he doesn't shit in other people's yards, you should be good


I have 4 indoor cats. Wouldn't have it any other way. I have thought about putting up a cat fence if we buy a house but not really for them. More b/c I get lonely without them.

I have had more cats hit by cars than I would be willing to count up. My cats are never allowed out. I love them to much to pick their corpses up off the road.

They are also clean, well groomed, overly loved, fun as hell, a little insane, and cause no allergies here.

Honestly, I find it irresponsible to have cats outdoors without proper fencing. At least in many areas. I can see the use of a barn cat. However, the destruction of native songbirds and pooing on other peoples' properties is not cool. What is especially not cool is having to swerve to not kill a cat in the road or the poor souls who can't break in time and have to go find the owner and tell them. That happened on my birthday to my cat when my sdad let him out.
post #188 of 313
I said a while back that I thought outdoor cats could figure out how to survive common dangers in their environment like cars, etc. and some people think I meant "ALL outdoor cats figure out how to survive." I have in fact "scraped a dead cat off the road". Obviously, not every cat survives its outdoor environment. People get hit by cars, too. Maybe we should all stay inside or outlaw cars.

I think a certain amount of danger is inherent in living a satisfying life. As they said in Finding Nemo, "If nothing ever happened to him, then nothing would ever happen. Not much fun for little Harpo."

Also, frog mentioned the fact that if her child had claws and killed small mammals and pooped in the neighbors sand box, she'd keep her inside too. Ha ha, funny yes - but obviously humans have a huge impact on the environment, dare I say even worse than cats. So obviously the cat/human comparison is not a good one, I admit it. However, the point I was trying to make is concerned with the "for the cat's own good" perspective, which I strongly disagree with.

However, I must say I have never really given the environmental aspect much thought. My personal experience doesn't bear out the "dangerous, non-native predator" description. I can see how it would, though, in certain ecosystems and with certain cats. I'm not sure what the solution would be.
post #189 of 313
My cats were indoor cats at our previous house, it was on a busy street with lots of cars.

This house is in the middle of nowhere, one neighbor with two barns a quarter mile down the road, and lots of mice and moles and shrews and marders and things that destroy our house.

So yes, we let our cats out here. They keep the critter population down, we keep them fixed and vaccinated and healthy. They are good cats and, since we live in the middle of the woods, I can assure you they are by no means the only predators out there. We have a boatload of fox and raccoons, as well as hawks. We also have a ton of deer, which are far more effective at destroying plants then my cats could ever be.

I think it depends on the situation, personally. Most suburban environments, the cats stay indoors. This house is just unique for us, and my cats love being outside, rolling in the grass in the sun.
post #190 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd View Post
I'm not sure what the solution would be.
The solution's actually pretty easy and straightforward: keep cats indoors (or take them out on a leash or one of the other excellent suggestions in this thread) so they don't roam and hunt.

(And I'm glad you liked my razor-clawed child comment. I slay myself.)
post #191 of 313
The 'keep cats indoors' is just not practical for everyone though. And I think cats on leashes is cruel.
post #192 of 313
my cat wears a collar...he has to, or he doesn't go out. when he was a kitten I would walk with him on a leash with a harness. I don't think he thought it was cruel. I think he was just happy to get out. Once he got bigger though he learned to just walk next to me, so I forewent the leash. I thought it was cruel, knowing that he wouldn't run away, to keep him on a leash.

It was because I became completely confident in his ability to take care of himself that I started letting him go outside. That and as I got further and further into college I had less time to spend outside frolicking with the kitty. So he had to learn to entertain himself.

He still meows for me to come outside with him. We go for a walk almost every morning. He even comes with me to do the laundry (although I don't let him in the laundry room just in case someone in the complex has allergies.) He meows outside of the door and walks with me back to the house.

G's cat on the other hand is spoiled and older. If you try to put a collar on her she just lays down right at that spot and doesn't move. We haven't tried it, but I suspect she would lay there for hours if need be. So we are happy she just sits on the front stoop. Otherwise, if she tried to roam without a collar, she probably wouldn't be allowed out.

Our biggest fear on letting them out is that someone will steal them and sell them to a lab. We've actually thought about getting a micro-chip put in for that. It's only 30 bucks at the local SPCA.
post #193 of 313
Maybe it depends on the cat. I've seen several on leashes like dogs, terrified. I find cats don't like to be restrained, especially when they are uncertain or fearful.

Mine wear collars too.
post #194 of 313
I don't have cats right now, but I vote for indoor. Ideally, I'd build one of those screened in cat yards so they could go "outside" but would be safe.

That being said- my neighbors cats are always in our yard chasing mice and I love seeing them. I do worry about their safety though. Maybe that's why I have an indoor bunny and not a cat!
post #195 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
The 'keep cats indoors' is just not practical for everyone though. And I think cats on leashes is cruel.
How is keeping them on leashes more cruel than letting them roam and fend for themselves? I don't understand that.

And, to be clear, when I say "keep them indoors," I mean that if you're not with them or they're not securely in your own yard/driveway, they should be inside. I have NO PROBLEM with people who spend time in their yards with their cats. No problem.

My issue is with the roaming and the lack of responsibility for cats' waste and activities demonstrated by their owners.
post #196 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
How is keeping them on leashes more cruel than letting them roam and fend for themselves? I don't understand that.
Keeping them on leashes is crueler than letting them be free because of cats' nature... it is the same reason why when introducing a dog and cat you hold the dog and not the cat (well minus the fact the dog is a predator). Cats do not like to be restrained when frightened or unsure, which they are outside, they know there are more things to be cautious of outside than in and their instinct is to be free, not held by someone or something.

Not sure what you mean by 'roaming and fending for themselves' but i don't think anyone here is advocating letting cats fend for themselves. We are talking about housecats who we let outside for adventures. They come home for their food and other needs.

Quote:
And, to be clear, when I say "keep them indoors," I mean that if you're not with them or they're not securely in your own yard/driveway, they should be inside. I have NO PROBLEM with people who spend time in their yards with their cats. No problem.
This assumes that everyone has a nice big yard with a huge ole kitty-escape-proof fence. That is not reality. Or a big house that will provide adventure for energetic cats. Also not reality for everyone.
post #197 of 313
Quote:
The 'keep cats indoors' is just not practical for everyone though.
That seems like a double standard though, because if a dog owner said it wasn't practical to keep it indoors, we would say "you got the dog, it's up to you to make this work', kwim? That has been said here in this forum many times to dog owners, when people have said the dog is too destructive/dirty/rough to keep in the house. Sometimes we are talking about major dog behavior problems--pooping, chewing up the bed, eating toys, knocking over the baby...definitely comparable to anything a cat could do inside, but still it's not seen as okay to just give up and keep the dog outside. I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't understand what you mean there about it not being practical to keep the cat inside.
post #198 of 313
Nobody is keeping the cat outside on this thread. Everyone has said they let their cats come in and go out... the whole indoor/outdoor thing. So the analogy is nonsensical. With an outdoor dog you are depriving it of companionship. Completely separate issue.
post #199 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
This assumes that everyone has a nice big yard with a huge ole kitty-escape-proof fence. That is not reality. Or a big house that will provide adventure for energetic cats. Also not reality for everyone.
I'm not assuming anything. Look, when toad (my ex) and I lived in teeny apartments, our cat was strictly indoors with us. When turtle and I had six cats in 1000 square feet, they were indoors with us. Now that we have about 1800 square feet and seven cats, they're indoors with us.

There are ways to have happy cats that DON'T INCLUDE LETTING THEM ROAM AROUND, CRAPPING IN OTHER PEOPLE'S YARDS AND HUNTING. That's my issue with "outdoor" cats. Whether they're outside on their own half the time or 10% of the time or whatever, my problem is that they're ROAMING.

Solve that problem and you have my blessing (which I know you want ) to have "indoor/outdoor" cats.

But if you let your cats out to do whatever they want wherever they want, I will make this face at you about it: :
post #200 of 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
There are ways to have happy cats that DON'T INCLUDE LETTING THEM ROAM AROUND, CRAPPING IN OTHER PEOPLE'S YARDS AND HUNTING. That's my issue with "outdoor" cats. Whether they're outside on their own half the time or 10% of the time or whatever, my problem is that they're ROAMING.
I am sure there are ways to have happy(ish) cats without letting them outdoors, with the caveat that it depends on the cat. I know for a fact some cats are better suited to indoor life, and others need to go outside. My best friend's cat was indoors only and he was nuts... attacked her, clawed at everything around, was impossible to live with. She started letting him out and he chilled right down. So what works for your cats won't work for all.

I am not willing to put tons and tons of work into attempting to keep my cats happy inside, and attempting to keep clean a small indoor space from cat dander etc., when I can just open my door and let the cats out. I also don't really care what my neighbours think about my cats going outside, unless there is a problem that directly affects them, and I am not willing to change my habits to suit other people's generalized judgment or self righteousness on this issue.

My cat who hunts wears a bell to warn birds, and he is really fat so combined with the bell his hunting prowess is negligible at best. He has not caught a bird since we got him the bell. I don't let the cats out early morning and I don't keep them out late at night to protect birds and avoid catfights with the homeless cats. They are neutered so not contributing to overpopulation. There are lots more secluded places around here for him to shit than in my neighbours' yards, and if it were an issue I would expect someone to talk to me about it. Yes I do my thing and expect feedback if it is warranted rather than assuming every possible negative consequence that anyone could possibly experience, as do my neighbours when they run their lives, have their fires, smoke their ganja, etc etc. That is life.

So barring any true and serious issue with my cats, I expect people to just stfu and deal. As I deal with the minor intrusions their presence brings to my life.
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