Cats - indoor or outdoor? - Page 4

[Mom4tot]

Originally Posted by frog

Assuming you're NOT kidding, if my child had razor-sharp claws, an inclination to kill songbirds and small mammals, and had a habit of pooping in the neighbor kids' sandbox, yes, I'd keep her inside.

You sound like a great neighbor

FTR, my 2 cats are indoor only. One of them has no interest in the outdoors. The other likes to watch the shadows of the birds at our feeders on the LR wall. We have bunnies and nests of baby bunnies every year. They deserve protection too. No one gets near our bunnies (see my avatar?)

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by boadhagh

The only one of our cats who has ever shown any interest in going outside is the one who has never had to live outside.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Two of the cats we have had were known strays. One has no interest in going outside. He once fell out a screened window and was terrified and spent his time huddled under a bush until we found him.

However, our other cat that had been stray fought us tooth and nail to get back outside. We finally had to accept that she would come and go in and out on her own terms, because she simply would not be kept inside. She would wait behind the couch and then STREAK out the door the instant it was opened, even though we only opened it a crack and squeezed our bodies through sideways. It was ridiculous, really.

But, I also believe that cats should be indoor animals. That cat lived with us for five years and then met a grisly outdoor death. I feel terrible about it.

dm

[Aries1985]

Personally I could never live with myself knowing that my cat was killed due to being outside when he could have been safe in a house. Call me paranoid, but I like knowing where all my animals are at all times. My dog is even rarely outside alone because he just doesn't like it.

In Arizona there are SO MANY stray cats. It seriously breaks my heart. My 3 were all found in less than a year and all strays. If I thought for a minute they'd be happier/better off outside, then I wouldn't have gotten them. I spent months trying to tame my female and let me pet her. Now she's wonderful! She purrs, she's happy, she's loved. I don't think she'd be willing to give up her safety for some outside time.

It's so bad that you almost can't go anywhere without seeing a stray cat here. Not to mention my neighborhood has coyotes (which don't bother me at all) and I've seen many cat bones laying around.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Originally Posted by number572

It's very unnatural for an animal (human included - think of how YOU would enjoy being kept against your will indoors for your whole life) to be inside for it's entire life... all day, all night.

For those of you with strictly indoor animals, do you at least take them outside for a walk on a leash or in an outdoor run?? I understand your views on protection (for the cat & also for the birds, trees, etc) but not allowing them outside, ever, is cruel as well as unnatural.

If someone posted that they had an "indoor dog" & had it poo/pee in a box & never let it outside - even though it tried to make a run for ythe door every time it opened - people here would be up in arms about animal abuse, etc. I don't understand the difference. I'm not accusing animal abuse here, just would like to understand the difference b'c I don't see one.

Then again, some people also think that clipping a bird's wings & stuffing them into a cage is a nice life for the bird...

My cat would flip the hell out if I went at him for a walk on a lead. Cats and dogs are very different animals.

And....pet birds that are not in VERY secure flight cages and ALWAYS indoors (even more sucky for a bird than clipped wings) should have their wings clipped. A painless wingclipping is better than being a pellet eating Conure out in the wilds of a mid-western winter.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd

I disagree - I think adult cats *can* understand normal risks, like cars, dogs, etc. If you have a neighbor setting out poison, then that's a whole different story.

There's a dead cat in the road at the enterance to my neighborhood that would disagree with this.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Funny thing about the 'but my cat neeeeeeever leaves my yard!'...I have poop in my garden right now from a neighbor's cat that 'never leaves his yard'...ya think he's just tossing it over the fence? I've said it before...bad things happen to animals that poop and pee in yards that are not their own. Letting your cat/dog out is basically saying to your neighbor, 'So, you're going to clean my animal's poop from now on. That pee smell...ya, you get to deal with that too.'

[frog]

Originally Posted by WaitingForKiddos

Funny thing about the 'but my cat neeeeeeever leaves my yard!'...I have poop in my garden right now from a neighbor's cat that 'never leaves his yard'...ya think he's just tossing it over the fence?

Hm. Is the cat polydactyl?

[WaitingForKiddos]

Originally Posted by frog

Hm. Is the cat polydactyl?

:

[boadhagh]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

I don't think it's quite that simple. Two of the cats we have had were known strays. One has no interest in going outside. He once fell out a screened window and was terrified and spent his time huddled under a bush until we found him.

However, our other cat that had been stray fought us tooth and nail to get back outside. We finally had to accept that she would come and go in and out on her own terms, because she simply would not be kept inside. She would wait behind the couch and then STREAK out the door the instant it was opened, even though we only opened it a crack and squeezed our bodies through sideways. It was ridiculous, really.

But, I also believe that cats should be indoor animals. That cat lived with us for five years and then met a grisly outdoor death. I feel terrible about it.

dm

Yeah, my argument wasn't so much that rescued cats would never be interested in going outside -- they're all different. Rather, I was trying to point out that cats do not need to go outside and that some cats (including mine) "recognize" this -- no more getting chased by dogs, cars, other cats; no more starving in the rain; no more getting kicked or having rocks thrown; no more getting shot.

See, one of my rescues came to live with us as a full-grown male cat, who weighed only two pounds, had several broken ribs, and had been shot with a pellet gun. Oh, and both of his canines are dead from having been broken on separate occasions.

Domestic cats (emphasis on the domestic) are not a "natural" part of the ecosystem; cruel people can abuse cats because of their drive to seek human company; cats behaving "naturally" can have a very detrimental effect on the world outside. I realize that specifics can be different. Not every cat is a hunter; not every cat is hunted. I've just always been very happy that I will never know who the person is who A. let my rescued cat outside and B. hurt him so horribly.

[heartmama]

Wandering dogs were once very common, even a part of small town "americana"...the friendly tail wagger that everyone knew. Remember Ribsy? But that stereotype has long faded. It's not okay to just let your dog roam. It used to be okay to let your child roam around town getting into hijinks...Dennis the Menace and all that....

I think all the arguments for outdoors cats were once made for dogs and even children, particularly boys. They need freedom, they need to roam, they will learn to navigate neighborhood dangers, too much coddling and restriction is unhealthy and unnatural etc.

I understand the appeal of these idea's and how it would extend to cats. I just don't think it's different for cats, or that these arguments are more or less valid for cats.

[zersha]

This is an interesting thread, and I've been lurking.

I would like some input on what to do in our situation.

We had a stray cat show up several months ago. She was about a yr old, and very friendly, but very skinny and hungry.

We fed her. After awhile, we got her spayed & shots. We have a horrible time keeping her inside. We have 3 kids, who open the door alot, as well as a small home, so there is no seperate area to keep her in. I just cannot police the door that much. We did for a couple weeks after she was spayed, but it was mid winter so there was not so much running in and out.

We were not looking for a cat, but one showed up and we've tried to care for it. Right now, it is going outside, as we don't really know how to keep it in. Like I said, our home is super small. I can't close her up in another area.

Any suggestions? I would prefer she stay inside, but since she was a stray, she fights us on this. There is an over abundance of cats here, so finding a new home is also very unlikely.

[zo's ma]

I'm not sure what the alternative is for some cat owners.

One of the cats we have now wandered up onto our porch shortly after we moved in. Once we figured out she was no longer wanted by her owner we took her in. It took her about 30 days to come out of "confinement" and another month to venture downstairs. After the 3rd month she cried and cried to go out and started using the dog door. At different times over the course of the last 3 years we've tried to keep her indoors, and she cries until we think she'll go mad if we don't let her out.

Someone remarked up thread that a cat like this may not be a suitable pet, every shelter w/in a 50 mile radius is full of cats. We don't have room to build a cat run, and she won't tolerate a leash/harness.

So really, what's the alternative?

FWIW, there are many indoor/outdoor cats in this neighborhood.

[chirp]

my cats go outside.
in fact, they go outside pretty much just to soak up the sun and get some grass-eating in.
when dh lived in a college apartment (his cat is his childhood cat, his mom didn't want her around when he wasn't around) he did not let her outside. this led her to bolting out the door even when it was pouring, snowing, too cold, whatever.
when we moved in together i refused to not let my cat out and so naturally she had to be allowed out as well.
now she has stopped going out at inappropriate times and is much safer because she can just sit on the step instead of having to bolt away towards the street for fear of being brought back into the house.

and as for cats being smart enough to stay away from cars...

when i first got my cat i lived on a busy street corner. the side street went to a park/abandoned factory. i brought the cat outside, looked towards the busy street and pretended/felt afraid. looked towards the park/factory field and felt relieved. i did this several times over several weeks, and guess what... my cat does not go anywhere near cars or busy streets.

dh's cat is 14 years old and was an outside cat for most of her life (except when dh lived in his college apartment, he was worried about drunken college students hurting her). she is declawed and would stick around the house. she never caught anything.

my cat will be 7 in august and is so much an outdoor cat that he will disappear for days.

14 year old cat was pronounced the healthiest 14 year old cat the vet has ever seen.

7 year old cat was pronounced healthy as well.

yes, sometimes, i see a dead mole on our front doorstep.

at worst i found a headless bluejay in our living room...but do you know what happened with that? anytime 7 year old cat went outside for an entire year the bluejay's mate would dive bomb and attack him. guess what? he doesn't chase after birds anymore.

natural consequences should apply for animals as well.
as a previous poster said...i am fairly certain that my cat would agree to the terms of going outside...being scared off by neighbor kids...attack birds...attack dogs...rain...snow. i know 7 year old cat has dealt with all of this...and he still wants to go out. and he was a stray when we found him.

even i agree to the terms of him going outside. i've always said...yes i would be heartbroken if 7 year old cat got hit by a car, or got some crazy disease. but you know what...i would know that he lived a good life and got to go outside and live autonomously...that is what is important to me.

i feel like the cat is not necessarily my pet as he is my companion. non-human companion. we treat our cats like we treat children. only at 7 and 14 they are older children and if they want to go outside then they can.

i totally hear pp's on the idea that he is not native to the environment and all that...i even can sympathize with the idea that cats are less domesticated than dogs and so can partially be considered a wild animal. but cats are here. in america (or canada) and will be here.

i think a better course of action to save native wildlife would be to focus on habitat destruction. Provide places for birds to nest and feed. Squirrels and crows are notorious for out-competing songbirds for food and nesting places. Same with starlings.

Maybe, by creating a more hospitable environment for the native species than just a puddle in the middle of an otherwise barren backyard, it would be harder for our otherwise lazy feline friends to catch them.

[ananas]

Great post, Chirp. As so many have said- one of my cats refuses to be an indoor cat. He has since he was a kitten. For a year or so we tried to keep him in, and in the end, we were all miserable, him most of all. We let him out and since then he's been the happiest cat.

We live next door to my grandparents, and he wanders between the two houses. He comes here to eat, and usually goes in their house to sleep, but is mostly roaming the backyards and lounging in the sun.

My other cat prefers to be inside most of the time. He sleeps pretty much all day on my bed or a chair in the living room, and we put him out for the night. Sometimes on nice days when he's being particularly lazy I'll put him out on the grass for some sun and he'll lounge on the lawn or the porch until he decides to come back in.

[zersha]

I like Chirp's post too. But I sometimes feel like the minority with all the indoor cat proponents. I just don't know what to do with a cat that insists it's an outdoor cat. I know I woiuldn't be happy being cooped up inside my entire life. But I also don't want to worry about killed birds.

But on a side note - maybe there is an argument for keeping your cat indoors. Just after I posted my last post, I needed to run to the store. As I was leaving, I saw a young girl on roller blades trying to pet our kitty. Then she picked up kitty (that's her name), and started rolling away. I'm sure she had good intentions. But then I saw my son with his friends (yes, we still let our kids play outside unsupervised here too), and told him to tell that girl that it was our kitty.

I'm sure kitty would have made her way back home, and they would have seen her shaved tummy from the spaying and figured she had a home, but there was a risk that she almost found a new home.

[zo's ma]

zersha, we actually did lose a cat like that.....the cat we have now actually wandered here w./ a sister. the sister was pretty content to stay in for about 6 months before she started going out on the roof!!! She was such a sweet and beautiful cat. Lots of people walk in this neighborhoo and I'd seen her following people before. I'm sure someone was just taken by her beauty and personality (maybe even though we were lousy owners for letting her out ) and just took her.

Cest la vie, I can only hope she has a good home now.

We live in an area where our kids can play outside without constant direct supervision as well, I feel pretty lucky and they do too!!

[beachmouse]

Strictly indoor for us, save they're allowed in the enclosed back porch. During coyote pup season, the 'yotes will come in from the woods to our neighborhood looking for more food sources, and I've had a number of neighbors lose cats that way.

[ColoradoMama]

I think it's irresponsible not to keep pet cats indoors. My friend's neighbor got sick of the cats coming in his yard, caught one, and drowned it in his tub. When I was a kid, my mom felt like "cats needed to be allowed outside." Then my cat decided to sleep under the car and she ran over him. She changed her mind after that. One winter morning, we pulled out of our driveway and started down the road. My dad heard a meow. He turned off the motor and let the car coast to a stop. He opened the hood and an orange tabby jumped out and ran away (close call). My parents fed three feral cats by their house - all three were eventually hit by cars. I could go on and on.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by chirp

i feel like the cat is not necessarily my pet as he is my companion. non-human companion. we treat our cats like we treat children. only at 7 and 14 they are older children and if they want to go outside then they can.

Yeah, I guess I could look at my dogs and cats as companions, but they are DEPENDENT companions. They depend on me for safety, health and well being, security, and stimulation (that little thing us indoor cat owners do with our poor neglected and abused kitties).

I would never, ever get a pet with the idea that they will be a "companion" that could come and go at will. I think that ideal is woefully irresponsible.

And yes, I treat my cats like my child. My child is 2. So far they are pretty much equal in their ability to asses risks. My cat has about as much impulse control, due to that little thing called prey drive (again, you think she's going to stop at the road and look both ways if she's got her sights set on a bird? nope), as my 2 year old. And that's pretty typical for just about every cat I've met.

I wouldn't let my daughter roam the neighborhood because it's dangerous, even though she'd LIKE to, and I wouldn't let my dogs roam the neighborhood even though they'd LIKE to as well, and I'm not going to do it with my cat. either. It's irresponsible. We make compromises, and amendments, and get creative about their care and happiness, and are fully prepared to invest money to keep our cats mentally healthy, as well as physically healthy (like purchasing a cat enclosure if needed), but opening the door and letting them roam the great blue yonder is not an option.

If I had a cat that strongly objected to being a strictly indoor cat (and I have), I'd explore the idea of other alternatives - leash training, cat enclosures, cat proofing an existing fence, screened porch, etc. That would be my duty as a responsible pet owner - to keep my pet safe AND happy and well adjusted. I just can't get on board with compromising safety in the name of my young dead cat having had a wonderful life outside. That's absurd. It really makes my brain hurt to hear an animal lover be Ok with the idea of their cat being ripped to shreds by a coyote or left to bleed to death on the side of the road, because their cat "lived a good life and got to go outside and live autonomously".

You all think cats being outside is so natural, yet you're failing to acknowledge that 98% of the dangers present to outdoor cats are NOT natural. It's not natural life selection to get hit by a 2000 pound hunk of steel, or to die of a (relatively) new disease. Unless you live out in the boon docks, the environment your cat is outside being so "natural" in (since we're throwing that word around) is anything BUT natural. Concrete buildings, paved roads, pollution, the chemicals your neighbor uses on his grass, and other introduced predatory species (coyotes!), are not natural! Ever watch a cat convulse and choke on its own vomit and saliva as it dies of chemical poisoning due to being outside in the "natural" world where it was so darn happy? It's disgusting and heartbreaking. Yep, that's the natural good life.

[North_Of_60]

What funny timing... I just went to put stuff on my porch for a fellow frecycler, and walked right out to a GIANT tom. He has to be 20 pounds. He's not running, so he's obviously somebody's pet, but I'm going to get dressed and go set the trap.

People, if you're not going to neuter your pets and then let it spend the night on my porch (who knows what the beast has already sprayed, maybe my vegetable garden), then it's mine to deal with.

He'll get scanned for a chip, but I doubt he has it if he's not neutered, then he'll get sterilized, then held for a week, but again, if he's not neutered and he's out running the neighborhood, I doubt he'll claimed, then he'll be put up for adoption.

If you don't like the idea of someone catching your cat and doing this, on their own property, KEEP THEM INSIDE.