Returned:What should Waldorf schools tell prospective parents? - Page 6

[pixiewytch]

Originally Posted by bluetrain

It bothers me HUGELY that just you seem to be saying the school might not accept a child with a physical defect?

"It sounds like your daughter may not even have "special needs" other than a physical defect since you didn't elaborate. I would still call the school and see what they say. If they are highly competitive, they will probably say no but perhaps some less competitive schools might consider her. "

Is that what you're saying here, I,m not quite sure.....

If it is I'm....flabberghasted I'm afraid.:

I'm only responding to this for the sake of the mother in case she did take something I said offensively. I meant no insensitivity about expressing whether or not a school may or may not take her daughter. Nor am I saying I agree with any certain decision a school has made regarding such a situation. I am only speaking from my experience in what I have seen on here.

I have seen people post on here that waldorf schools would not take them because there were only so many slots available and then it seems like the schools choose who they want in the school based on interviews with the family and how they may fit in the school environment. I'm not saying I agree with this but in the highly competitive schools this seems to be what happens. It is probably fair to say that this is more of a private school elitism issue than it is a waldorf issue because I've heard similar stories about Montessori and even charter schools with long waiting lists.

It is indeed terrible if a school denies a child admission because of a physical defect but you know it happens at any school which is highly competitive. This is really what I was trying to convey to the poster, not to say that I agree with such a policy or am being insensitive to her DD's condition. My son has mild special needs so I don't take such things lightly.

[orangewallflower]

Pixie, are the Waldorf school around you competitive? I don't know of any Waldorf schools with waitlists on my end of the country.

[orangewallflower]

Thanks for this great post Karne!

[Hannahsmummy]

Originally Posted by orangewallflower

Pixie, are the Waldorf school around you competitive? I don't know of any Waldorf schools with waitlists on my end of the country.

I'm not Pixie but I thought I'd respond to say that our school has a big wait list for kindergarten.

In regards to the child with cranio-facial issues, I do think it depends on the school. I know in the case of our school your daughter may or may not get a place but that would be based on whether it seemed the right choice for your whole family, just like anyone else. We do have a pretty diverse population at our school.
However, in terms of special needs, some would be accepted and some not. The main reason being that the teachers are not equipt to deal with many types of special needs and it wouldn't be of a benefit to the child. I tink they would freely admit that wouldn't be able to full support many special needs children.

[NoliMum]

I've been off the computer for a few days, so forgive me for replying to quotes from a couple pages back.

Originally Posted by LindaCl

Well, isn't that what some people have been complaining about--that Steiner's "mumbojumbo" reasons are too covered up? Those argument go along the lines of, "we like the pink walls, but how come parents aren't told Steiner had a mumbojumbo explanation in lecture such and such about pink walls?"

I guess I was kind of contradicting myself there. I would like the anthroposophy minimized, yet I also want parents to know the truth about the origins. Guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

Ignorance
–noun the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorance

Ok, I can admit that I am ignorant in plenty of areas. However why don't you further explain what it is I'm not getting, rather than just pointing a mean finger and then leaving the thread?

I'm just trying to be open and honest about my thoughts and concerns about Waldorf. I would be MORE than happy to be proven wrong, if it's through a legitimate explanation.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by NoliMum

Ok, I can admit that I am ignorant in plenty of areas. However why don't you further explain what it is I'm not getting, rather than just pointing a mean finger and then leaving the thread?

I'm just trying to be open and honest about my thoughts and concerns about Waldorf. I would be MORE than happy to be proven wrong, if it's through a legitimate explanation.

Fair enough. The idea of grouping together any group into a category of what "those people" are like is bigoted and ignorant. You said (well ... typed )

This is totally different from a Christian's point of view, which is that their belief is the Ultimate Truth, and anyone who does not believe is incorrect, and needs saving.

That is pretty cut and dry, and it colors the the lens through which they view people.

Bold emphasis was added by me to show what I was addressing.

I know little to nothing about Waldorf. I'm here just trying to read and learn. Just saw that comment and thought, "What an inaccurate comment to make and what an unfair generalization." So I fired one back about agnostics that was just as silly to prove a point, which seemed to get missed.

Matt

[bluetrain]

Pixiewytch you said ( the quote things don't seem to work)


"a lesser of evils you could say, even though I wouldn't quite consider it an evil at all. I don't think anything is perfect and I don't wear blinders but I can only live in the present and if we are happy in the present there is no reason for me to question something that hasn't been a problem for us. If and when it does become a problem, then I will be sure to address it and take note."

I often think many people choose Steiner Waldorf for what it ISN'T.
The other choices are just not available, so Steiner is the last resort and ,as you say, a lesser of evils.
IMO, the schools play heavily on this.
The promational flyers for the Steiner school here says( paraphrase)
"There's a school 20 minutues away, with small classes, no testing, doing things at the child's pace, beautiful buildings creativity, the whole child, set in beautiful surroundings"
They seel the things that state schools aren't, not the things that they are.

[bluetrain]

Pixiewytch you said
"I'm only responding to this for the sake of the mother in case she did take something I said offensively. "

I think many people would have found it offensive if that had been your meaning, not just the mother in question.

[missbuns]

wow...interesting thread. i think the bullying thing is what bothers me the MOST since i keep hearing it over and over again about waldorf schools.

because some of you were bullied in public school in the 80's or 90's doesn't mean the same thing to me. what matters is the teachers who are reluctant to intervene because of "karma". i've taught kids for many years, and while some children do actually encourage it with their personality or reactions they need to be shown ways out of this cycle. and the bullies need to also be understood and guided in different directions. sometimes it's as easy as pairing the two up over and over again and finding ways to let the bullied kids shine (and be seen as "cool" in front of their peers). you have to build both kid's confidence, not just let things BE. this can turn into some disastrous Lord of the Flies thing when it comes to children!

i don't want my child to be the bully or the bullied (which is worse, really?) and i for sure don't want teachers ignoring it!

[pippilongstocking]

Bluetrain - I have a question that I would like you to answer please:


IYO - What is the ultimate goal that anthroposophists hope to achieve if we educate our children the Steiner way?

[pippilongstocking]

missbuns - I can only speak on behalf of my school and that is - Bullying is stamped on immediately. How I know is because my son was a victim in the first year of Steiner, we approached the teacher, parent & child and we had a meeting. The end result -The child stopped.

[pippilongstocking]

And as a parent we have instilled in our children, that if they bully 'anybody' they cannot expect us to defend them. As a result both of my children knew from young ages that bullying is not tolerated in our family, in the home, outside of school, inside school!

[bluetrain]

Missbuns, what a sensible, child centred answer. thankyou.
If a belief system, as happens at Steiner, takes over, and common sense, human compassion take second place, things can go badly wrong for some. As in karma, past life issues etc.

Pipplongstocking, is that question for me?
As much as I understand anthroposophists, (and as you realise, people do not readily come forward to say that they actually ARE,) they hold the belief that all humans can be directed and helped towards clairvoyant communication and vision, and could communicate with the spirit world (which obviously they believe is "real" and "scientific" ).
The teacher's task is to help the children incarnate into this world from the spirit world they have recently emerged, and to guide the childen's souls towards their next incarnation.The teachers "sacred task" direct kids' attention away from the “apparent world” to the many concealed “levels of truth” in order to empower the human soul. Teachers are also on their own "spiritual path".
(There is a quote which says the schools were set up purely for Manu to be able to incarnate.)
The belief is that man incarnates in sucsessive lives, and a spiritually and racially advanced group progress into the next "era" while the majority of "materialistic" "evil" races decline.
He does distinguish between "soul" and "race" developpment however, by saying a soul can incarnate in any skin, the body is mantle in other words.
Individual souls are karmically responsible for their own journey, up or down the spiritual ladder, by being immersed in "occult science" or anthroposphy.
The advanced group, are those who have occult spiritual knowledge, and they will recognise each other when the time comes.
"“the souls now living in bodies which have the heart to hear and feel Anthroposophy” will survive the coming "War of All against All and pass onward to a new spiritual era" In this future age, “upon the forehead and in the whole physiognomy it will be written whether the person is good or evil. He will show in his face what is contained in his inmost soul.”

In The Universal Human, he writes his vision of the ultimate goal of human evolution, he writes that the cosmic goal behind "“the meaning of
our whole earthly evolution" and end up with a“uniform, perfect, beautiful
type of human being”

There are many quotes from Steiner as to the task and goal of anthroposophists, to spread the word as it were

"The aim of the Sixth epoch of humanity will be to popularise occult truth in the widest circles; that is the mission of that epoch"

"So a certain group of people must join together in order to prepare the future."

"There is no other means of bringing about a universal human brotherhood than the spreading of occult knowledge through the world. "

"So you see, the Spiritual Movement has a quite definite goal, namely, to mould future humanity in advance."

"It is the deeper task of the anthroposophical movement to enable a number of human beings to enter their next incarnation with an I each remembers as his or her own, individual I....These individuals will be scattered over the earth, and thus everywhere on earth there will be a core group of people who will be crucial for the sixth epoch of civilization. "
"Those, however, who do not develop their individual I will be dependent on joining a group that will instruct them in what they should think, feel, will and do. "

I hope this makes sense, alot of Steiner is quite garbled ans contradictary.

In a nutshell, I would say that those who are immersed in spiritual science, or anthroposophy, who are given the opportunity within the schools to have this part of them "awakened", may go on to the path of anthroposophic spiritual learning , which will eventually, when the "war of all wars" takes place, and save humanity, because they spiritually prepared, while the rest of us will be instructed what to "think feel will and do"

I'd be interested to hear the views of anthroposophists on this, because they are usually extrmely reluctant to be forthcoming. Based on Steiner's writing, this is what I "think" the anthroposophists ultimate goal and belief is, but I could be wrong, so am happy to be put rught by those who have had such long experience of it.

[bluetrain]

As a quick add on to this, I do think that the anthroposophists in the schools genuinly believe that they are doing absolutely the right thing for people by directing them this way, allowing them this chance to become a spiritual elete. I think they believe everyone should have this opportunity as it were.

I'm sure the motives in that direction are entirely good willed.

[pippilongstocking]

Bluetrain - sorry you have lost me.

Are you saying that our children are being taught to expect a war?

[bluetrain]

In keeping with the title of this thread this is a relevant article from Australia
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...234762244.html

This is poignant

"The review called for the school to be transparent about its
curriculum and provide parents with more information about how it is
taught."

"One parent, who did not wish to be named, said she moved her son out
of the school after a Steiner teacher recommended he repeat prep
"because his soul had not been reincarnated yet"."

[pippilongstocking]

So assuming its all about reincarnation, sixth epoch and war on souls etc. How do they manage to keep the children from telling the parents or indeed anyone for that matter? I only ask this because mine haven't ever spoken about souls, reincarnation, sixth epoch, lower races, karma etc.

[bluetrain]

Pippilongstocking, Have you read Steiner ?

It's easy to get lost, that much we can agree on!
It's like wading through treacle it's so turgid and bonkers.

But yes, in future era, he says, there will a war of all against all, it's in the Apocolypse of st John.

Here's an article by Gary Lachman
" his belief in a coming world conflagration, when the archangel Michael, overseer of the current stage of human consciousness, would face off against the power of Ahriman, a spiritual being who seeks to prevent humanity's development. Steiner spoke ominously of the incarnation of Ahriman, an Antichrist-like figure, whose display of miraculous powers would precede a catastrophic "war of all against all". Steiner believed this unavoidable destiny would take some time to unfold – Ahriman is scheduled to arrive sometime in the 3000s – yet many of his followers suspect that in recent years the process has been speeded up."


He foresaw other fights too.
(Remember he had "read" the entire Akashik record, the history of the entire universe past and future)


"“[T]hese things [future human evolution] cannot happen in the world without the most violent struggle. White mankind is still on the path of absorbing spirit more deeply into its essence. Yellow mankind is on the path of preserving the period when the spirit is kept away from the body, when the spirit can only be sought outside of the human-physical organization. But the result will have to be that that the transition from the fifth cultural epoch to the sixth cultural epoch cannot happen differently than as a violent fight between white mankind and colored mankind in the most varied areas. And world history will consist of that which will lead to these battles between white and colored mankind until the great fight between white and colored mankind has been delivered. "Rudolf Steiner,The Spiritual Background of the First World War (Dornach: Rudolf Steiner 1974)

[bluetrain]

Well, as they're always at pains to point out, they don't "teach" anthrposophy , they "awaken" and "direct".
So those "ready" or "open" will catch it.
Apparently, the curriculum is designed with this in mind.
The myths , and the order they're taught them , for instance, are meant to echo the spiritual and past life progresion of the children, so they may "recognise" it.

[bluetrain]

Anyway, I doubt there are many teachers who are high up the spiritual path. they're on an anthroposophical journey too.
And they , in their turn "educate" the parents, or try to find the right time to ,as one teacher has pointed out the other day on mums net. Of course , this is a problem they always have apparently, "educating"/(indoctrinating) parents.