New to this - how does this kindergarten compare?

[One Art]

So, to be honest, I am trying my hardest to hs dd1 because I don't like my choices where I live. Starting with the first grade there is a charter school that is supposed to be great, but no kindergarten. I am in the process of a divorce though, and it could be a battle, not to mention that I may not find the at home work I need to pull it off. So, I checked out what is supposed to be the "alternative" kindergarten in town. I'm interested in hearing how it measures up, compared to schools that all your dc go to....

The teacher had it together. She told me she'd just finished some kind of program/certification that made her a Master's level kindergarten teacher. Circle time was cute and I liked the book she read because there were challenging words in it. They are doing an ocean unit so there were stuffed fish and things hanging from the ceiling. She said the units are integrated, but outside of that most subjects are taught individually. Oh, and the class is a mixed k/1st, but there were only 3 first graders. She was talking to me, but kept telling them to be quiet while they worked in their workbooks. She ended up taking away 2 minutes of recess because they kept talking, but told me that they usually act differently because she is right there with them helping them with everything in their workbooks. She said they have two recesses, each one is 15 minutes, and though taking minutes away is a punishment, she can't take away more than 5 minutes per recess. Pulling your card is also a punishment, for each individual student. She also had two jars, a happy jar and grumpy jar that she put chips in. She put one chip in the grumpy jar while I was there, and told me that if the happy jar filled up more quickly than the grumpy jar that they would get a party. She said they don't do naps because she has too much to teach. They get tested frequently, including immediately so that they can show how dramatically your child improves. And they only meet 4 days a week, on friday they send the child home with worksheets so you can "homeschool" them and be a part of their education. She did use a stern voice when telling them to stop talking (or running), but it never seemed too "mean" and in general she had a level of energy I can't imagine sustaining for a day with 5 and 6 year-olds.

My immediate reaction was However, I'm sure I'll see a lot of the same stuff at other schools in the area. How does this sound? Thanks for any input!

[Lingmom]

My experience is that when a teacher has to resort to jars and cards and taking away recess and whatever, she's not doing a very good job of managing the classroom. I'd keep looking... Of course, the problem with choosing a school based on one classroom visit is that you may end up with a fantastic kindergarten teacher and then get stuck with a horrible first grade, or vice versa...

[One Art]

Well, I went to elementary school in this same town when I was a kid, and I'm not sure I'm going to find a kindergarten that doesn't do card pulling as a punishment. I think it had less to do with her abilities as a teacher, and more to do with the "norm."

[Aries1985]

I teach kinder and man do I really hate the card pulling/red light system. My kids are only praised for positive things with a sticker chart. They never lose a sticker, but get them for helping a friend, sitting quietly while others are talking, showing good effort on their work (even when it's not all correct), or anything like that.

I also really question kinder teachers that have to pull recess time from the whole class. After a whole year I can think of maybe 2 kids who've lost a minute or 2 from recess for doing something pretty bad (lying, hurting someone else). They're 5 and 6 and they talk!

It is very normal for teachers to do card pulling. I too wouldn't necessarily question her abilities as a teacher based on that alone. However, from my experience, not just teaching, but being around kids...less is more in terms of management. Kids like the rules to be short and simple so they can follow them.

[thriftyqueen]

My DS's kindergarten is very strict. To the point where it is starting to bother me. He is at a private school and their policy is if you are acting up (it can be minor stuff), you get a stick taken away. To get you stick back, you have to stand against the wall at recess time. If you forget your outside clothes (gloves, boots, etc.), you have to stand against the wall at recess. I think the punishment is too strict for kindergarten students, myself, but the kids are very well behaved. DS will be transferring next year to public school, which will probably not be strict at all. It is hard because it doesn't seem like there is much middle ground for anything.

[Chinese Pistache]

That seems like an awful big focus on the negative. My ds's kinder teacher was great, because she did a great job of keeping the kids busy and engaged (not doing workbooky stuff). When there was a problem (talking or not paying attention), she would simply stop talking and when the child realized she wouldn't go on without their attention, they quickly stopped. She would also do silly things when the whole class got a little rambunctious, like have the kids stand up and sing a song with some full body movements. I think a playful/gentle approach is so much better in general, but especially with kindergarteners.

[CarrieMF]

K-3 use the card system here. In Grade 3 they start doing alternative things for behaviour. They have kept kids inside at recess if the entire class is not behaving. IF it is individual kids & it is bad enough(ie, pushing each other) then those kids have to walk with a supervisor. Generally they WANT the kids outside partially to have them burn their enery off(even if they're walking they're still getting rid of some of it) & so the teachers can have their break too.

I am a Noon Supervisor at the school. they have 25minutes to eat, but if I can tell the class has alot of pent up energy(happens more & more as it gets nice out) I'll let them out after 20 minutes if most of the kids are done & fidgety.

I haven't kept a kid inside for acting up. I have had kids walk with me at recess. Sometimes it's from another teacher & they have to walk the entire recess. Other times it's to give certain kids a short(5min) break from each other.

[Hannahsmummy]

I know you are probably looking for experiences relating to mainstream schools but I thought I'd post anyways.
We attend a Waldorf school and our experience is nothing at all like this. I guess I am posting because I have no experience with mainstream and if the stories told on thread are the norm, I feel sad about that.

Sorry, I know I am projecting my own values at what school for little ones should be!!

[karne]

You mentioned that this K. was the "alternative" kindy in town. In what way? Is it a public school or alternative private? Do you have other alternatives? If you do it might be helpful to get out and look at them, perhaps just to feel that you have alternatives, if this is so. What did your child think of the school?

[wildmonkeys]

Well my son goes to a free public not waldorf private charter or anything else with a better than mainstream value system and in three years of school his entire class has NEVER had recess time taken as a group. Individual kids may have, I don't know, but my son has never had recess time taken and I have never seen any kids have recess time taken when I volunteer in his kinder, 1st, or 2nd grade classroom.

Kids in kinder are given some quiet time to read or play and those who fell asleep (never ever my busy boy who gave up his nap at about 2.5) were allowed to continue napping.

The fact that the teacher is well educated sounds good and the format of four days in school would appeal to me. How did the kids seem? Happy, scared, bored?? That would be a big factor for me - less important than how we perceive the classroom or teacher is how the kids in the room seem to be experiencing things.

[karne]

Originally Posted by Hannahsmummy

I know you are probably looking for experiences relating to mainstream schools but I thought I'd post anyways.
We attend a Waldorf school and our experience is nothing at all like this. I guess I am posting because I have no experience with mainstream and if the stories told on thread are the norm, I feel sad about that.

Sorry, I know I am projecting my own values at what school for little ones should be!!

Is this meant to be helpful or just sanctimonious-sounding?

[Hannahsmummy]

Originally Posted by karne

Is this meant to be helpful or just sanctimonious-sounding?

In all sincerity, I didn't in any way mean to come off sanctimonious. If you wanted to have a look at pasts posts of mine I truly try not to judge how others parent and I apologize if it sounds that way.

I was relating my own experience and I truly do not know what other schools are like. I did feel sad about little kids having to stand against a wall for forgetting outdoor clothes or having play time taken away. I'm not really sure how expressing that I felt something about that was sanctimonious.

I don't think the original poster was looking for "advice" per se she was also saddened by it (so it seems by the ) and seemed to be asking for others experiences.
Sorry for intruding.

[annethcz]

I think a discipline system like that would drive me crazy.

What state do you live in? In many states, the compulsory school age doesn't start until age 7, which makes kindergarden optional. If you're really unhappy with your school options, you could keep your child home next year and send her to the charter school for 1st grade.

[One Art]

Thanks for all the replies. The discipline is the biggest issue for me, and while I will check out several more kindergartens, I think these methods are standard around here. (As I said, I grew up in the same town) The kindergarten is "alternative" because of the fridays off so you can be involved in your child's education by "homeschooling" them with the school's worksheets. Honestly, if I'm going to homeschool I'd rather just do it the way I feel would be best for dd1, but that is why I am posting. Because of my situation in getting divorced I may not have this option.... The kids seemed very... agressive is the only word that is coming to mind. Jostling each other during story time, raising their hands every second, shouting things out - this gives the wrong impression of the classroom I know - it wasn't chaotic or out of control at all... but I did zero in on the kids because I immediately imagined my dd shrinking into a corner and not saying a word, even if she needed to go to the bathroom.... and yes, I do live in a state where she isn't required to go to kindergarten. As it is, she'll be 5 right before school starts. But, the problem is with my stbx....

Perhaps some material on the effects of harsh discipline would be good... does anyone know of where I might find these?

[karne]

I may have missed this, but do you have the option of keeping your dd home another year? especially given her personality? My ds could have gone to kindy this fall, but I felt in my heart that it was too soon. We did a year at home and I found fabulous resources on the homeschooling forum here. Honestly, what the women have to offer on that board is so rich, and we had a great year. Now he wants to try school, so we're going to do kindy, not first, because for my kid, being older will be better than being the youngest. All to say, that if the schools around you are the only choice, and you don't feel good about it, perhaps another "growing" year at home would be helpful?

[One Art]

thanks karne. It is an option I'd love to consider. the problem is that my stbx wants her to go, and even if I do want to keep her home, I may not be home if I can't find work that will make that possible.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

On a practical level, if you need to find a job, how on earth do you deal with Friday's off of school? My son's school dismisses at 12:40 on Fridays and it was really hard working an employment schedule around that. This year I'm working FT and his schedule made finding a nanny difficult as well. So you want to think about that.

Interesting, but you didn't mention anything about many of the usual observations about a school class. How many students? Did the work seem challenging but still appropriate? How long a day? What sort of enrichment activities? How much free time? Especially if you think the discipline approach you saw was pretty standard, those things should probably play a role in your decision.

For what its worth, my son's school does not many of the approaches you described, though it is a private school with little classes (16) and lots of teachers (2 at all times, 4 if new academic material) for the K class. Very serious offenses (hitting, for example) get dealt with with the headmistress (mostly a lecture and essay assignment for that sort of thing). Talking and not getting work done during class time resulted in doing it during recess, but just for the student in question and only when the reason it wasn't done was deliberately not working on it (talking, playing), not because they worked more slowly. Stern voice definitely for running or other safety issues. Mostly positive reinforcement and motivation, lots of fun things sprinkled into the day to keep kids engaged, and very high standards that the K students pretty much automatically pick up because of great modeling from the older kids.

[karne]

Emilyrose, what do you think of another visit to the classroom to see if you still feel the same way the second time around? Sometimes first visits can be so overwhelming, just on an emotional level. Or, is this something that you need to come to terms with because you don't have any other options? Are you exploring other alternatives? I hear you that it sounds like your hands may be tied by your work situation and stbx.

[One Art]

I am exploring the alternatives, yes. Just wondering how the schools here seem to compare to other places, because I'm hoping I can use it to my advantage if they compare poorly...

there were about 15 students in the class. To my understanding there was no "free" time, other than recess - the reason they don't take naps, also, because there is too much to teach. I observed circle time, and the story that was read seemed challenging and appropriate. The workbook stuff... I just don't know. I am not a worksheet fan. The day is 8 - 2:30, also standard for the kindergartens around here, except for the fridays off. Oh yes, and they have lots of homework. IMO, homework for five-year-olds is somewhat shocking. But then again, this is going to be standard around here also... so I'm just trying to get an idea about what other public schools, that do testing, are like, so I can see how these compare... if they really are all similar in these ways, yes, I may just have to deal with it. Thanks for all the input so far!

[Tinkerszs]

Just another perspective.

I teach kinder. I have two 1/2 day classes. We have no naps, no recess, and no developmental centers. I use a card system in my class because it works, especially with 23 five year olds. My kinders are expected to be reading and writing full stories by the end of the year. That doesn't leave me a lot of wiggle room for "fun" stuff. I agree . . . kinder now a days doesn't really meet the needs of our kids. But it is reality and there is nothing I can do to change it until state and federal laws change.