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What do you think, should Daddy stay away? - Page 3

post #41 of 87
I think it depends on the couple. My dh is the only person who knows me well enough to anticipate my needs and understand my looks. I didn't have to ask him for anything. He knew enough to keep quiet when I needed him to and he knew enough to not touch me unless I asked him to. If I were married to someone else (an ex for instance) I WOULD have been better off without the male.
post #42 of 87
This was very thought provoking. For me, I can kind of relate to it. I love my DH and he is wonderful, but he is not necessarily the first person I would turn to in labour for support...I mean, I definitely want him there, but I won't want that pressure on him to support me. He is great at being told what to do but doesn't really have that instinct of knowing what I need without me saying so. I am sure there are some dads out there who are naturals at it, my DH just isn't one of them, I don't think. That's why we had a doula last time (this time our midwife will come whenever I feel I need her). She was wonderful support to me but also to my DH, and she reassured him through all the worry etc that comes along with seeing your partner in pain and not really being able to do anything about it.

I think it would be near impossible to really see a turn toward excluding dads from births (like, good luck keeping my DH away from seeing his babies come into the world - the most incredible moments of his life, he says!!). IMHO maybe the better goal would be to ensure that all dads are prepared and supported for the experience, because it definitely can be upsetting for some who feel helpless and of course mothers can feel that tension and anxiety and have it affect their labour, at least to some extent.
post #43 of 87
I decided to take this dr's opinions with a HUGE grain of salt the instant I got to the third paragraph and read the line that said "I have been in charge of 15,000 births."

Ummm.... I wonder what those 15,000 moms would say to that. Aren't they the ones who birthed the babies?
post #44 of 87
I would just like to point out, again, that this is a man with a very heavy French accident (if the interview was even conducted in English), being quoted by a British reporter.

Do we all know who Michel Odent is?
post #45 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
I would just like to point out, again, that this is a man with a very heavy French accident (if the interview was even conducted in English), being quoted by a British reporter.

Do we all know who Michel Odent is?
ok... i fail to see what his french accent has to do with what he was saying.
post #46 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by almadianna View Post
ok... i fail to see what his french accent has to do with what he was saying.
He is notoriously difficult to understand when he speaks, bless his heart. It's entirely possible the interviewer/writer of the article/whatever might have thrown some sentences together based on what they thought he said. Plus, there's always the whole "lost in translation" thing if indeed this interview wasn't conducted in English.

ETA: For me, his credentials are far more than enough to allow me to overlook what would otherwise be considered damning coming from any other OB. His decades of positive influence in the birth revolution outweigh one potentially disagreeable article, in my eyes.
post #47 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
I would like to point out that Dr. Odent did not write this article. It is about him and his beliefs, but his words were strung together and pieced into a story by someone else.
Exactly. Ya'll wouldn't even be surprised at how controversial the story appears to be and how badly it's written if you knew the source. The Daily Mail is barely one level above a tabloid here, IMO. It's all hysteria and "zomg!! your kids could DIE, you could DIE, Immigrants are scum", etc... so take this story with a grain of salt. I would bet my grandmother that Odent never said 'all men', that it is just being spun that way to get a bunch of people het up and think them homebirthin' natural birth folks are freaks.
post #48 of 87
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/fatherpart.asp

Note that the language in this one is "many" "some", etc.

Quote:
My only objective is to justify a series of questions by suggesting that the issues are much more complex than we commonly believe. It would be premature to offer clear-cut answers. Questions should precede doctrines.
Not exactly a "OMG ALL MEN ARE BAD!!" tone, is it?
post #49 of 87
*no longer relevant*
post #50 of 87
Haven't read it, but in my experience -- definitely not. I would rather have him (my husband) than anyone else.
post #51 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitymama View Post
Exactly. Ya'll wouldn't even be surprised at how controversial the story appears to be and how badly it's written if you knew the source. The Daily Mail is barely one level above a tabloid here, IMO. It's all hysteria and "zomg!! your kids could DIE, you could DIE, Immigrants are scum", etc... so take this story with a grain of salt. I would bet my grandmother that Odent never said 'all men', that it is just being spun that way to get a bunch of people het up and think them homebirthin' natural birth folks are freaks.
Well - that's good to know!

Yes Nashvillemidwife - I know exactly who Michael Odent is. That's why I kept making sure the article was about him. I feel better knowing about the paper. I would like to hear from a reputable source about this subject and Michael Odent's thought on it. If he truly believes that men shouldn't be allowed near a laboring woman, then he hasn't attended a birth like my last two or my friend's. My friend didn't even have her husband with her, it was her brother, but she felt like she didn't want to do it without him.

I think that another critical part that is missing is the environment of the birth. I've birthed four children - two in the hospital - two at home. Honestly, when I was pg with child #3, I remember saying that I didn't really care if dh was there or not. He wasn't really helpful during my first two births - actually in the first one, I felt very abandoned and let down by him. The circumstances of that birth were a big factor in us almost getting divorced. I was pretty apathetic about him being at #3.

Then, we had a homebirth with #3, and I couldn't believe it - he was amazing. It was like he was a mind reader. He did what I needed him to do, and he was exactly what I needed. It really was an amazing difference. I was blown away. Just his presence was comforting to me. He was even more important during birth #4 because it was a very challenging birth. I would not want to birth without him. Even if we had to have a hospital birth, I would want him with me. I believe that NOW he gets birth, and he would be much better in a hospital.

I think (and yes, this is a generalization and not true for every man) that the hospital setting takes away the naturalness of birth and really makes the partners feel like they don't have a place in the birth. How integral are you really when you're saying, "Okay now, breathe, push - 1...2...3...4...? I think that many hospitals push the partner out of the picture, too. There are doctors, nurses, IV units, bed rails, small uncomfortable beds, rules and regulations, etc. Anyway, that's my two cents.
post #52 of 87
The second article is a lot more well written. I can actually see some good points to it. We have friends that split up when trying to make the decision to have a second.

My husband is not like that and would be so hurt if I asked him to leave. He loved watching both children be born. I know I would be terrified in the hospital if they kicked him out, it would be me and a few people I have known for no more than an hour over the time of pregnancy.

With the second I was a lot more comfortable with my midwife, but still wouldn't have traded my dh for anybody. They talk about female relatives being there, I would beg for a c-section before my mother got to be my support person.
post #53 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I have never done well with most females. I don't, as a rule, find them comforting. I usually find them irritating.
That tends to be my experience, as well. I had two wonderful women with me while labouring with Aaron, and I was glad they were there. I was also incredibly grateful that dh was with me.

That's really almost my only experience with labour and birth, though. I know I absolutely want dh to be with me for my c-sections. He's the only part of the experience that I find bearable - it helps me so much to have someone there who is as excited as I want to be by the baby's arrival, especially as he isn't being hindered by terror and a disconnection from his own body, and I am.

I was really surprised when I read this article. I've heard so many great things about Odent, but then he talks - twice! - about all the births he's been "in charge of" and continues on to talk about how many women "need" c-sections these days. He totally lost me.

Oh - and as I said on the ICAN list...if dh walked out on me just because he saw me give birth naturally, then I'd be glad to watch him go, and would probably boot him on the butt on his way out the door. My vagina is not a sex toy, and I have no interest in a man with that view of my body.

I'm sure there are many times when a male partner shouldn't be there for a birth, for a variety of reasons - but this is one more choice that should be up to the woman (and her partner - I'm certainly not a fan of the idea of "making" a man be there if he doesn't want to be and can't see how that would help, anyway), not the "expert".
post #54 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Oh - and as I said on the ICAN list...if dh walked out on me just because he saw me give birth naturally, then I'd be glad to watch him go, and would probably boot him on the butt on his way out the door. My vagina is not a sex toy, and I have no interest in a man with that view of my body.
Boy howdy, ain't that the truth? That is some warped thinking...

-Angela
post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel's Kitty View Post
They talk about female relatives being there, I would beg for a c-section before my mother got to be my support person.
I was almost crying for my mommy while in labour with Aaron (wanted her here, but she was sick and didn't want to bring the bug around me). However, I absolutely wouldn't want my sister or either SIL here - I'd probably shoot myself.
post #56 of 87
It should be up to the woman birthing. But IMHO, if he was there to make the baby, he can be there when it comes out.
post #57 of 87
For the record, Michel Odent would like you to know:

About the pages in Daily Mail, first I was not the author of the article. It was written by a journalist after an interview on the phone. Also it is probable that people just read the sensational title. In fact I have never said that men 'should not be at the birth of their child'.

Warmest regards

Michel
post #58 of 87
I have not read every response, so perhaps this is repeating someone. And I missed the second article that is being talked about, so I will have to go back and catch up on that one, but wanted to just say this.

It seems to me that every reason that was mentioned for the husband to NOT be there could actually given for every other person in the hosptial room, INCLUDING the OB.

I would feel much more comfortable at realaxing with my DH than I would with a room full of strangers popping in and out at regular times, and then all rushing in and "lending a helping hand" when the time to deliver is there.

Not to mention the statement:
Quote:
For her, his presence is a hindrance, and a significant factor in why labours are longer, more painful and more likely to result in intervention than ever.
Which I find totally inaccurate, to say the least.

Now off to find the second article.
post #59 of 87
And having a thousand strangers in the room all trying to stick a hand or two up your yoni while your in the middle of a contraction and epidurals and 10,000 interventions in a brightly lit unfamiliar hospital room has nothing at all to do with longer, more painful labor
post #60 of 87
This is just one guy's opinion. I couldn't have done it without my DH. He is the best partnner on Earth.
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