planned homebirth end up @ the hospital? - Page 2

[BirthTender]

HI, all. I've been reading all these posts about these disappointing births. I've had them, too. I am presently a direct-entry.
In the almost 23 years that i've been involved in some capacity in midwifery/homebirth/consumer advocacy, I've seen some CPM's who were a whole lot more interventive than some homebirth CNM's (especially CNM's who were doing homebirths as a direct-entry midwife for years before becoming a CNM) & I've seen some direct-entry midwives who were more interventive than some homebirth CNM's or CPM's. I've also seen some very interventive CNM's, but I also know a hospital CNM who is one of the most non-interventive midwives (& uses lots of herbs & alternatives in the hospital!)that I have ever known & tells the nurses what the couple/lady wants or doesn't want!
I've said many times on these forums, that one has to carefully check out all the attendants in your area to find the right one for you (even if that sometimes means going more than 2 hour away). Some folks will even travel into a preferred attendant's neighborhood & have the baby in motels, travel trailers, friends' & relatives' homes, the midwife's home, etc. That happens alot. So, don't automatically assume that the one attendant or attendants who is/are sanctioned by the controlling rumor mongering types in her state or area is/are the right attendant for you. You'd be very surprised at some of the reasons that the rumor-mongering insecure, but loud mouthed types start rumors or half-truths on other midwives & sometimes it's been for reasons, like one midwife has a nicer home than another! There's a serious lack of respect & trust for other midwives among the non-CNM types & that is very disheartening.
I encourage all of you to really take your time in chekcing out attendants. Require them to supply you w/ a Informed Document that hopefully covers all their training, complications, fees, & many other things & then ask for a no-strings-attached consult. Many midwives in my practice area dont' supply these totally informative documents & dont' have a no-strings-attached consult & the couple doesn't search out others before choosing one & only then beginning prenatals. Also, know that there are safe ways (w/ much empirical evidence that they do work) to get rid of strep through all kinds of concoctions that dont' have anything to do w/ IV antibiotics. But for the ones who choose the antibiotics over the ways that I suggest for dealing w/ the strep (which also includes a don't test option), I will do an IV antibiotic for them. I would also do an glucose IV for someone who was dehydrated & couldn't stop vomiting, so she could get some energy back & remain at home. I'm a RN, (but was a midwife long before getting the RN) so wouldn't have trouble doing that & can order the fluids w/out any problems. Remember that sometimes things happen at birth that aren't our ideals & there's no explanation. One has to research & understand & make better choices for next time, yes, but there are still so many unknowns about everything in birth & death, too. As I've said many times on this forum & others, most folks take more time & care at picking out a new car, then they do in choosing someone to help them in one of their most important life events. That was longwinded & now i need to get off & go do some prenatals. Many warm regards to you all, Karen Valcourt of BirthTender in the foothills of the NC Mtns.

[StarMama]

Originally posted by BirthTender
One has to research & understand & make better choices for next time, yes, but there are still so many unknowns about everything in birth & death, too. As I've said many times on this forum & others, most folks take more time & care at picking out a new car, then they do in choosing someone to help them in one of their most important life events.

Perhaps this was not directed to all of us here, but I'm confused... I DID research and interview and cover all my bases with my midwives. I was actually seeking out midwives before we were even TTC'ing. It didn't keep me from developing pre-eclampsia. What "better choice" could I have made in my situation? I trusted my midwives, and even called to ask them which direction I should take once the hospital doctors wanted to admit me (I was seeing doctors to have my labs done under my insurance since my midwives were out of pocket). I certainly hope that next time I'm able to have my homebirth, but what choices did I screw up on this time?

[BirthTender]

Lisa Lynn, you didn't screw up on any choices. Karen of BirthTender

[BirthTender]

<but there are still so many unknowns about everything in birth & death, too>

Lisa, my short post posted before I was ready, guess I hit something when i got up to go to bathroom. Sounds like the pre-eclampsia hit suddenly (it does sometimes) & it's hard to say if it would have abated at that point, if you had gone home & done a number of things to bring it under control. I had pre-eclampsia w/ my first, as well & ended up transporting, too. I did do more research the next times (3 more times) around & had it under control through diet, herbs, supplements, behavior modification, & etc. & went on to have 3 babies at home. Warm Regards, Karen of BirthTender

[bfbabygirl]

BirthTender, I found your posts very insightful and right on the mark. IMO, whenever a midwife or midwives are not even present at the birth or postpartum, then that is extremely poor care of a client. If they are not there to advocate for a birth plan and run interference in the most interfering environment known to birthing (Hospital) then the vulnerable party (birthing mother) is left all on her own and no amount of antenatal hand holding or good feelings or 'they are so nice!' counts for jack in that moment.

That is my experience, not saying it's truth for all. But honestly, how can anyone pay a birth attendant when that attendant isn't right there at the birth? Or the birth attendant is too busy other times, missing births, etc. I don't understand that at all. Support should be there for the birthing mother no matter what. If the midwife isn't there or turns the care over to a doctor, then the client is just like any other birthing woman in the hospital. Well, maybe that birthing woman knows that she shouldn't be in hospital and what those drugs and violence are doing to her and the baby. But in the end, the birth is another statistic for Inductions, C-Sections, and other managed birth practices in this country. It didn't matter then that a midwife was involved along the way, except to the pocketbook.

[XM]

Hmmm... this thread was to be a supportive place for mamas who planned a homebirth and ended up with a hospital birth. It seems to have taken a turn from the OP's intent.

quote:
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Originally posted by BirthTender
One has to research & understand & make better choices for next time, yes, but there are still so many unknowns about everything in birth & death, too. As I've said many times on this forum & others, most folks take more time & care at picking out a new car, then they do in choosing someone to help them in one of their most important life events.
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You know... it's true that *most* women don't put much thought into their births. Our society makes birth seem something that happens *to* us, not something that we can actively participate in. So they plan their epidurals and leave it at that. So many women don't even know enough about their bodies or natural birth to know when something is truly wrong and when their doc is full of BS in reccomending various interventions. And even women who know that there is more to be desired in birth then just surviving it cannot always find the level of care that they deserve, ending up with a medwife who gives them lip service or a doc who says they support natural birth (in their minds, meaning vaginal) and fails to mention that they pride themselves on how well they can stitch an episiotomy.

Perhaps it would be different if we didn't have a patriarchial society where women are strangers to their bodies and midwives are still persecuted for serving women with the compassion and options that we deserve. Until then, we mamas can only do our best with what we are given.

One thing that needs to be remembered is that the vast majority of the mamas on this thread are NOT women who were uninformed about birth, as are the majority of women are in our society. If they were, they would not be questioning thier experiences and choices because they would'nt *know* any better then what they experienced. But they DID educate themselves, and circumstances convened that did not allow them to fulfill their wishes. I think this deserves recognition and respect. Having a natural homebirth IMO depends on a combination of preperation and luck. You can do all the research and be fully educated and prepared, taking awesome care of yourself and something can still happen to screw up your plans.

If these women were ignorant of birth, they would not be grieving their homebirths.

My friend that developed preeclampsia was a size 7 and very healthy. You'd think she would have had the easy birth and I would have had the hard one! She did all the right things but when it came down to her care providers telling her that the baby was in trouble... well, no matter what your plans, when your providers are telling you that your baby is at risk your 'ideal birth' goes out the window and you just want to save the baby. To suggest that such a mama may do better next time because she can make 'better choices' is a slap in the face. No matter how well you prepare, there will always be those 'unknowns' that you mention...

But I *do* agree that if more women were better educated about birth that providers would HAVE to respect our wishes and do more to give us the births we want. But since so many women think that birth is 'just that way', they usually let providers pull all kinds of crap without even questioning it, and then steamroll the rest of us who dare to ask for compassion and respect in birth. I am sure that a midwife would have caught my dd's distress, but I could not find a MW in my area who would take me, so I *had* to go with a doc. Too many midwives (at least in my state) are more concerned about litigation and liability then helping other women because of the really scary politics involved. This is more of a point of concern then women who don't know that they can expect more from birth, IMNSHO.

And to imply that maybe I should have tried harder to find a MW for my dd is disrespectful. I tried every avenue available. How did I find my MW this time? LUCK. A new mama friend who just happened to see my post here looking for a MW PM'd me and we went from there. I prepared to the hilt last time, doing Bradley, an organic whole foods Brewer diet, seeing a chiropracor, taking herbs. This time I also prepared... but I needed a bit of that LUCK for things to fall into place so I could have my homebirth.

I am so sorry to have jacked your thread, Maria. You ladies all have my deepest respect, you are all strong, brave mamas and I just wanted to be supportive. Sorry about the incohesive novel, it is late and it's time to go to bed already.

XM

[StarMama]

Originally posted by BirthTender
<but there are still so many unknowns about everything in birth & death, too>

Lisa, my short post posted before I was ready, guess I hit something when i got up to go to bathroom. Sounds like the pre-eclampsia hit suddenly (it does sometimes) & it's hard to say if it would have abated at that point, if you had gone home & done a number of things to bring it under control. I had pre-eclampsia w/ my first, as well & ended up transporting, too. I did do more research the next times (3 more times) around & had it under control through diet, herbs, supplements, behavior modification, & etc. & went on to have 3 babies at home. Warm Regards, Karen of BirthTender

Well I know you don't know my whole situation, but I had been having creeping blood pressure issues for the last half of my pregnancy. I was taking herbs, watching my diet, immersing myself in water, keeping calm and laying down several times a day on my left side, ect, ect, ect to keep my blood pressure from rising to a dangerous level.

I did everything I could, and its VERY hurtful to have you come in and say "it's hard to say if it would have abated at that point, if you had gone home & done a number of things to bring it under control" in a support thread. I'm sure you didn't intend for it to hurt me, but it has, big time.

Here I am, tearful, hurt, upset, feeling like I'm a big fat failure because my body "screwed up" (and is continuing to "screw up" when my milk still isn't in FOURTEEN days after birth, but that's another thread), feeling like I must have just not found or thought of some avenue to turn to in order to magically 'fix' this, feeling like I let the doctors pressure me in the face of YOUR AND YOUR BABY'S LIFE IS IN DANGER comments, ect, ect and the last thing I need here is a comment like "hmmmm well maybe if you would have gone home and did something it could have been better". That really isn't doing a darn bit of good in helping me *feel* better here in this SUPPORT thread. Yes maybe I *could* have gone home and took some herbs or some sort to try to lower my BP and the protein in my urine. Or perhaps I could have come home and had a seizure or stroke.

I get that you're just trying to be helpful, and impart information to us that we should be making the best choices we can and being educated about birth and pregnancy and labor and midwives and everything else, but like XM says, I think that all the women here are educated, and did research, and did the best they possibly could for their pregnancies. I don't think many homebirthers would fit into the uneducated-about-birth catagory. So while you're just trying to help, it seems kinda like telling a math teacher they should learn about multiplication and devision.

But honestly, how can anyone pay a birth attendant when that attendant isn't right there at the birth?

bfbabygirl, I'm not sure if this is directed at everyone, or me, or someone else, but I didn't pay my midwives for the birth they weren't at (their fees for prenatals and birth is $4000). I paid them for my prenatals and that's it (about $1000). I *could* have asked them to come to my hospital birth, and I'm sure they would have, but they would have no authority in the hospital I had to use (for insurance to cover), and would have basically been glorified doulas, and I think everyone would agree paying $3000 for a doula is just a *wee* bit expensive. But yes, I agree it is pretty silly to pay an entire fee for a birth attendant who doesn't attend.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Hey, OP

Sorry everyone, I didn’t have time to read all the posts this morning but I wanted to share my disappointments of a “planned” homebirth. Hopefully, I’ll have time to read through the tread later.

I had planned a homebirth for my first child and ended up in the hospital. Our situation was that I labored at home for 17 hours with 3 hours of pushing before being transferred to the hospital. We were so close that I felt my daughters head while I was at home, in my own bed. We transferred because the fetal monitor(our 3rd+ intervention) indicated that Aya was under stress.
I gave birth to her after an hour in the hospital.

Pros for transferring:
I got the kind of support that I needed from the hospital staff. My midwife and I were not working well together at home. It turns out, much to my surprise, that I needed the traditional “hospital style” cheering section to help me push Aya out.

The other benefit to my being in the hospital was that I hemorrhaged twice after birthing Aya. I’m not sure but I may have needed to go to the hospital anyway. My midwife did stand by ME very much after the birth and I think saved me from a much bigger birth complication by treating me after the birth.

The biggest cons for me as far as the hospital goes were that I wasn’t prepared to defend Aya at the hospital. For that I wish I had done better. I didn’t get to even see my placenta and other things like that happened that I wish were different.

** I do believe that if I had started the birth in the hospital that I would have ended up with a c-section **`

I just scanned through the posts and have a few things to add. I birthed a perfectly healthy baby, for which I am eternally grateful. I had some regrets about the birth but always remind myself how fortunate we are for the BIG positives (healthy mother and child) and the SMALL ones (no drugs/c-section and etc).

Edited to stress that I only say that drugs/c-section and etc. are are RELATIVELY small issues in comparison to a healthy mother and child.

In the end – The only thing I would have changed would have been preparing myself about hospital procedures. I say this because you can never know the outcome of different choices and because I ended up with a healthy child – that’s the bottom line for me.

LisaLynn,

Is your baby healthy? Are you well? If so, you made the right choices for you and your baby and even if not you may have made the best possible choice. When I’m having thoughts of wishing I had done better I can make myself feel better by thinking about our positive things. I also thing that if I had done something differently, perhaps the results could have been worse. I think that PERHAPS I did everything perfectly and ours was the best possible result.

I just wanted to comment on your payment conversation because that was another, unexpected positive for us. First, my midwife did practice on me after the birth although she wasn’t allowed. After she did it, the doctor thanked her because she didn’t pick up on the blood clot in my uterus (even after my midwife had alerted her several times).
AND, our insurance paid both my midwives and the doctor in full! I think it was an oversight but I wasn’t about to complain.

[Kerlowyn]

I agree with XM’s post
I know all of us did our homework to the best of our ability when planning our home births, but for various reasons, we all birthed in the hospital.
My homebirth was attended by one of the best and most well respected midwives in New England. At the time, and even now, she has her own school for direct entry midwives, doulas, & herbalists…I was a midwifery student of hers at the time. The midwife who assisted her was also a very experienced, wonderful midwife. I labored at home for 3 full days & nights…and on the morning of day four, transported. They did absolutely everything, and I mean everything, to get my body to stay in labor. It was not meant to be. I was so angry with my body at that time. It was years later in hindsight, that I realized there were deep, emotional and spiritual reasons as to why I had a hard time ‘letting go’ of my baby. So, my body needed help, and off we went to the hospital to get the Pitocin to keep my body in labor.
My midwife did come with me to the hospital and was there for me the whole time. The back up midwife, when the hospital staff was not looking, let her manage my labor and consulted her for everything. It was the hospital staff and the nasty OB (that I describe in my earlier post) who turned what was already “not the birth I had planned”, into something very awful and cruel.
But, I did deliver a very healthy 10 lb. 4 oz boy, and became a mom that day.
I was also so sad about doing it in a hospital, but time has helped those feelings to diminish.
So, I guess my point is that…some of you ladies reading this thread did all you could, all your research, all your homework, but did not have the home birth you wanted. My heart goes out to you all. You all did the best you could, we all did! We made choices with the info and situations we had at the time. Talking about what happened helps a lot. Listening to your experiences helps me a lot even 10 years after that birth.

Karen/BirthTender….I took a childbirth class with you when you were in RI. I was labor support for a single mom friend of mine; I think it was back in 1991….

[BirthTender]

<Hmmm... this thread was to be a supportive place for mamas who planned a homebirth and ended up with a hospital birth. It seems to have taken a turn from the OP's intent.>

I am being supportive. The intent of one's conversation & real meaning is so lost on the internet, when there's no face to face conversation w/ the attending body language. I could try & include smiley faces & all here, but i don't know how & at this point w/ teenagers & college age kids needing to get on the only computer, too, my messages are hurriedly typed & I dont' get my menaing across. I'm totally supportive of those who have to transport from a homebirth to a hospital birth, after a planned homebirth, (and deal w/ those feelings) as i've been
there myself (had a horribly long labor, w/ pre-eclampsia, persistent occiput posterior, which persisted w/ all my babies). My original post was generalized & still is & I have found many, but of course not all, folks really don't heavily inquire & search out options & caregivers & inquire about alternative treatments, etc. I'm not saying that each of you all as individuals did not 'beat the bushes!' Kerowlyn, HI. Waving from here in the foothills of NC on a beautifual day!Karen of BirthTender

[dlb]

XM--

Thank you again for another insightful post. I like how you say that if we were ignorant about birth, we would not be grieving our loss.

I feel that I did everything, researched everything, tried everything that I could, given my circumstances. Still I ended up in the hospital with a c-birth, and still my feelings of failure and loss were profound. Too place the responsibility for changing the system on women like me, instead of on the providers themselves, is so very hurtful and unfair.

(((Lisa_Lynn))) I am so sorry you are hurting so much right now. I remember how very much of a shock it was when my birth plans didn't work out-- I likened it to being tossed off a cliff. You will get through this, you will get past the pain, you will feel empowered and strong again. I promiss.


DeAnna

[XM]

Originally posted by BirthTender
Sounds like the pre-eclampsia hit suddenly (it does sometimes) & it's hard to say if it would have abated at that point, if you had gone home & done a number of things to bring it under control.

Karen, if this is your idea of being 'supportive', can I just say right now how grateful I am that you were not MY midwife?

Please *read*, really read, your words before you post them. Being pressed for time is no excuse for being careless when making potentially hurtful comments. I would expect a MW to have more respect for the power of words and the energy they carry. Please also remember that many of these ladies are new (very new, in Lisa's case) mamas, and a new mama is in such a vulnerable place as far as her energy and her psyche. She is still open and vulnerable from the birth and the spiritual act of bringing forth new life, which is a holy thing no matter where or how it occurs. They are coming here to support each other, not to have tongues clicked at them condescendingly by those who 'know better'.

My midwife studied with Susun Weed (who attended the birth of her last dd, in fact) and has been published herself on the topic of wholistic approaches to supporting pregnancy. Under her guidance, one of my very good friends had her twins at home. They were 8lb2oz and 8lb12oz, both breech, and born at home without a single tear. Not every mama is LUCKY enough to have someone with that kind of expertise to help them. How absurd to infer that they are somehow at fault for the scarcity of good midwives. If that isn't blaming the victim, I don't know what is.

I was not with Lisa for her pregnancy and birth, but we PM'd often. When she shared her BP concerns a few months back with me, I gave her the herbal protocol that I had followed. It worked for me when meds didn't, and it is the same advice she would have gotten from Ms. Weed herself. Now, if it did not work for her situation, that is NOT her fault, and how presumpuous for you to suggest otherwise.

Lauren had to teach this one to bfbabygirl when she made some poorly-considered (and thus, hurtful) comments on Lisa's milk thread. It's a ":" followed (no space) by the word"hug". Karen, I reccomend you post that and then walk away from this conversation before you hurt anyone else with your idea of "support".

: ...and I thought COMPASSION was a midwife's most powerful tool.

And can I also say that any homebirthing mama who dares to be smug to a mama who lost out on her own homebirth is highly dellusional about how much of her birth was due to her own efforts and how much was pure luck... please have some respect for other mamas who did not have the same luck. Remember, it could be YOU next time, hurting so much about something so precious being lost due to events beyond your control.

XM

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I know that I’m a late comer to this discussion but I would like to add my 2 cents to the discussion of the offensive remarks. It most definitely is important as it is to be careful while posting here, especially with people who post in seek of support. BUT, it is also very important to remember how easy it is with on-line communication to come off differently than how you had intended. I read all the posts and it seems like everyone was trying to be supportive. I think there is more than one person here who is not communicating well. I am usually one who doesn’t communicate well on-line so I would know how easy it is to offend.

[dlb]

XM--

I hope that this thread can be turned back to its orriginal intent-- a place for mama's grieving the loss of their homebirths to receive the support they need, not a place to debate the politics or necessisity of interventions.

Lisa_Lynn, how are you today? So much of what you say about being hurt and tearful and feeling like a "big fat failure" rings so true for me, and brings back so many painful memories. And I know that the feeling of failure is so primal right now, that no matter how many times kind people tell you that you are not a failure, it barely makes a dent in the pain, does it? Please hang in there sweetie. Again, I promiss you, this will get worked through, and you will feel better some day soon.

And I hope this doesn't sound trite, and please don't think I am in any way minimizing your emotions-- but I looked at your babes pictures, and he is so beautiful and so very loved. No way in heck that the momma who brought forth that little guy failed. You not only planned, and worked, and researched, you had to make a decision to do what you most didn't want to do (going into the hospital to birth, and allowing the interventions), out of concern for his health and wellbeing. You placed his health above your own hopes and dreams, which is so much the essence of mothering. Way to go, mama!!!!

XM, your posts here are like healing water. It is so good to see a homebirth mama validate the pain that those of us who were denied our homebirths feel. Thank you.

And Karen, I hope that you exercise more caution in dealing with your clients than I have seen you show here. I am glad that my midwife acknowledged my need for intervention, made sure that I got it in the most compassionant way possible, and then days later held me in her arms as I sobbed through my disapointment, and told me how very strong I had been. It would have broken my heart if she had told me that "if I had gone home and done a number of things" my birth could have gone better. Broken in to pieces.

to all the mamas hurting, take care, it will get better.


DeAnna

[BirthTender]

Dear Everyone, I have had the computer on all day trying to wrap up loose ends before we leave shortly for a short trip, where I will not have access to the computer. (we like to camp). There is/has been a mis-understanding in regards to my intent & message, and as i've indicated before, Internet communication leaves alot to be desired for. I Will not continue in this nit-picking any longer, as I meant & mean nothing but total support. Have a Wonderful Day everyone. Karen of BirthTender

[SpiralWoman]

hi all~ well well well... as the OP here I want to weigh in on all these "goins ons" as they say in my part of the country:

But they DID educate themselves, and circumstances convened that did not allow them to fulfill their wishes. I think this deserves recognition and respect. Having a natural homebirth IMO depends on a combination of preperation and luck.

XM~ how I love you! Thanks for speaking what I was *thinking* while I read Birth Tenders post.

And, Birth Tender, here's how I *felt* about that post: a little bit misunderstood, KWIM? Like a bit of unneccessary preaching to the choir, right? Shutting the door after the horse is out of the stable? Something like that. I took it as somebody trying to relate & be helpful, but missing the point. I wish you had shared your personal experience with your pregnancy that ended up complicated & how you dealt with it, not your professional viewpoint. After all, this thread is about discussing & processing our stuff. Nobody can fix me, I just have to work thru it, hopefully with a listening ear.

One of the things that makes this harder for me: I feel it is really really easy to place all the weight for a "bad birth" at the mom's feet. Heck, I do it to myself. More & more I realize that as much as I fight it, society's messages about me as a woman, as a mother get in. They are so internalized that I find myself fighting MYSELF as I try to become a good mom. As I said in my last post (right before birth tender's): "But the odds are stacked against us by a culture that disempowers women & disregards the benefits of natural birth. I know that despite years of research, education, & planning, I could only insulate myself so far & in the end, had to compromise and settle for less than my ideal. There were just no other choices left."

I hope that this thread can be turned back to its orriginal intent-- a place for mama's grieving the loss of their homebirths to receive the support they need, not a place to debate the politics or necessisity of interventions.

but you know what dlb, the politics of interventions are such a part of my process, I'd be surprised if they didn't come up!

IMO, the loss of my homebirth was in large part due to the politics of birth: my CPM was required by law (her state licensing) to turn me over to her OB when I hit 42 weeks, which we were rapidly approaching. (BTW, I will LIE about my LMP if there is ever a next time) Her frame of mind was much impacted by that & in turn I was influenced. Truly my 1st "intervention" was black & blue cohosh, caulophylum & EPO. Did those thing cause my water to break 1st? If we could have progressed without watching the calender & I had gone into labor water intact & we hadn't seen the mec until the birth or 2nd stage, we would have been @ home. Etc, etc, etc.

So, yes, absolutely let's keep this a healing place for us all & let's not ban any topic from discussion. Please let's talk from our hearts & experiences with honesty & direstness. And as always, lets let a little bit slide.

Maria

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I’m talking directly to having just read your last post. In a way I feel like I’m out of place here because my baby’s birth was two+ years ago. I’ve healed a lot since then and I also wasn’t as pained by my disappointment by our outcomes as some others.

I’m interested in this post partially because I never really talked about my birth with anyone and I felt very welcomed into this little club of homebirth wishers or planners. I’m also interested because, lately, I’ve been thinking about what is the “big picture” and what are the details that make a whole. For example, I’m very interested in the option of adoption but part of me is so concerned about the experience of pregnancy, birth and early infancy for the child that I’m afraid of not being in control of those things with an adopted child.

I guess that I’m in a place of letting go and so I’m not relating so well to the devastation of a hospital transfer as well as I may have two years ago. I do, however, really appreciate this thread and I’m glad to be a part.

I know there is one new mother here, Lisa_Lynn (I read your nursing thread) and I don’t really know the situation of the others but maybe things heal. I think they do, they definitely do. Seriously, I can’t even relate very well because so many wonderful things have happened since the birth of my baby.

BTW, I don't know what your intervenions are but my first intervention was a midwife...Hey if you want to get extreme, my first intervention was the over the counter pregnancy test. For us the intervention that ultimately got us to the hospital was the fetal monitor but I’d probably still use one the next time and I would definitely (my personal choice) use prenatal care and a midwife.

About your after thoughts on the birth, do any of you think about the potential outcomes of a different choice. Do you ever think that if the other choice may have been worse? I do and did all the time but our particular circumstances made it easy to do so. If I had chosen a hospital birth from the beginning, I may have had a c-section BUT, if I hadn’t transferred, I may have had to transfer after the birth anyway (for my health). Maybe this would have been worse…maybe it would have been better…there’s no way to know.
\
I just read my post and see that there are many grammar mistakes. I think I’ll leave them…for fun (and because I’m lazy). In my defense, I’m learning a second language (and I have a toddler) and this makes it even harder to write…which I wasn’t very good at in the first place.

[StarMama]

Thanks for asking DeAnna, and thanks for the support XM. I agree Spiralwoman, I know birthtender was just trying to help, but it was confusing the help she was giving.

Anyways, right *now* I'm doing ok. I think I'd be dealing with the birth a LOT better if I could at least *#&$ing breastfeed without a stupid SNS. The two issues, my birth, and the huge problems with breastfeeding are very linked for me. I feel like I failed with the birth, and am failing with breastfeeding. I *know* I did what I needed for the safety of my baby, and I *know* I'm doing EVERYTHING I can to make breastfeeding work, but I still feel like a failure.

I think one of the things I feel worst about is how I feel like I let the doctors and nurse 'boss' me around. I was scared, and lost, and out of my element, and the 'experts' wanted me to do this and that, and I did just what they wanted. Which yes, considering I was more concerned with my baby's health, makes sence, but wow did it make me feel disimpowered.

The hard times are like 3am, when ds is screaming, I'm fiddling w/ the SNS in the dark, and dh is snoring away. In the day, especially when I an shower, brush my hair, and get out of the house I'm usually doing pretty ok.

It doesn't help that my dh is thrilled we now don't owe the midwives that big chunk of $. He understands I really wanted my homebirth, but he didn't 'get' it you know? He always thought "the hospital is just fine". Don't get me wrong, he's being very supportive, and knew the homebirth was important to me, but he doesn't truly "get it".

ds is fussing, gotta go...

[SpiralWoman]

boy, Lisa Lynn,
how I can relate! I *try* to think of our SNS as a big help that has allowed me to continue breastfeeding, but most of the time I just want to throw it across the room! I am only having to sup about 8-10 oz per day, so I know your situation is more extreme. I definitely feel like the issues around the birth & around breastfeeding have become one thing to me, or at least have a lot of continuity. Like you said, serious breast feeding struggles have alot of the same emotional components AND you are faced with them over & over again all day long! It is so easy for me to get caught up in feeling like I'm not doing anything right for DS & really beat myself up as a mom. Sometimes I wonder why all this has to be so hard & I blame it on not seeing him be born~ maybe that's why I feel like such an "unbonded" failure. DH is usually pretty "there" for me, but even so he thinks as long as "everyone is healthy" there's not much to talk about. He is starting to get it tho that if I am going to get over it, I have to talk about it.

I guess it is 2 steps forward, 1 step back bcz a couple weeks ago I was thinking we were doing so good & now we are back to alot of miscues & crying, etc. Maybe it's just teething, but I feel so overpowered by his needs sometimes.

thanks all for such a good discussion & support, Maria

[dlb]

Hi SpiralWoman--

I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread by defining it, sorry. If some of us need to ponder the political aspects of our births and interventions, I have no right to say not to go there.

Its just an issue with me, how sometimes people wanted to push the politics of birth without regard for my feelings-- for example, yammering about the high percentage of c-births, when I was really hurting over mine, and just needed to talk about how I felt. Thats all, its my issue, and I appologize for putting it out there as a ground rule in your thread.

Hope everyone gets through this, at what ever stage they are at!

DeAnna