Supporting a friend...

[OrangeblossomB]

Hi, ladies! I'm a frequent lurker here... I don't post much, but I've pulled a lot of handy information from reading the boards here. I need some advice, and I was hoping you all could help me.

I have a good online friend who just had her second DD. She did not nurse her first, but she's bound and determined to nurse this one. Unfortunately she has not alot of family support (her own sister wanted her to cover up while BFing in her own home) and she's a SAHM... so lots of her friends and support network are online friends like me. We both post on a board that's not exactly mainstream, but not exactly crunchy, either... there are only a few of us that are really strongly pro BF (as opposed to pro "do whatever works for you") there. She asked me for some information (her doc sent her home with instructions to supplement with formula until he says otherwise because her 10 lb at birth baby lost weight in the hospital -- isn't that normal for BF babies? -- and to use nipple shields. And for some reason, to pump. Why, I don't know, since she's a SAHM??). I think she's gotten some bad advice, but she's really determined to make this work. I found her some links on latching tips and nipple shields, and I'm also looking for some on building supply, because I'm concerned that the supplementing is going to damage hers. If anyone can point me in the direction of any links concerning any of these issues, or has any idea what I should be saying to be encouraging and supportive that I may not be thinking of, please help me out here. I really want to help out this mama, for her own sake, for her baby's sake, and for the sake of her older DD, who will hopefully see and remember, and nurse her own little ones someday, KWIM? She's not having an easy time of it, and I want to help her get past the rough spots and see that it does get easier.

Thanks so much!

[jessica_lizette]

The best thing she can to build up her supply is to nurse on demand very frequently. Here's a good article from kellymom.com.

It is completely normal for babies to lose weight after birth...that doctor makes me so mad for her. It can be really discouraging and undermine your efforts when you're getting bad information from somebody who should know better, ya know?

[OrangeblossomB]

Thanks for that article... good timing, because I just got a message this morning from her asking me if it was normal that her DD wanted to nurse so often. I replied with a loud YES!

I'm trying to be as much of a cheerleader as I can... if I lived close by her, I'd be over there myself helping her with latching and positioning, taking her older one home to play with my kids, so she could have some uninterrupted time. But since I can't do that, I've been trying to just send all the info she asks for. Plus, I've I've been trying to send her a funny/cute/encouraging picture or quote or story every day that's nursing related.

[OrangeblossomB]

My friend's doctor just told her to quit BFing entirely for the next few days and just feed formula, because the baby had lost two ounces. That can't be right... I'm sure that will damage her supply, won't it?

[jessica_lizette]

OMG! Yes it will! If I were her I'd be finding a new doctor ASAP! How old is her little one?

Perhaps in the meantime you could help her find a lactation consultant in her area or her local LLL for support.

[OrangeblossomB]

Her baby is 13 days old.

I'm going to see if I can find out the number for the LLL in her area... thanks. I didn't even think of that. I found her a bunch of relevant articles on Kellymom and sent those, though.

[Septagram]

Yes, please get a LLL Leader to her ASAP! Poor baby, poor mama... That Doc sounds like a real piece of work. :

[Ziggysmama]

Thats absolutly ridiculous. Did he get his medical license in a raffle?

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by OrangeblossomB

Her baby is 13 days old.

I'm going to see if I can find out the number for the LLL in her area... thanks. I didn't even think of that. I found her a bunch of relevant articles on Kellymom and sent those, though.

You should be able to find the closest LLL Leader at http://www.llli.org/WebUS.html Sometimes this info can get out of date pretty quickly so if the closest number doesn't get you someone, try another Leader.

Here is a page on weight issues: http://www.llli.org/NB/NBweightchild.html though if there is something else going on, you can easily find other articles of the FAQ variety on that website. Of course babies lose a bit of weight after they are born and big babies may seem to lose more because babies lose a percentage of their birth weight which even I with my math anxiety can figure out is a larger number if birth weight is larger. One must look to failure to thrive issues and other general health issues and not impose simply a number on weight loss to determine if there is some reason to suppliment.

Sounds like this poor mama has a most breastfeeding-unfriendly doc and if at all possible should find one who does not have such issues.

Good luck to her!

[spedteacher30]

I had a 10 pound baby, and he dropped to 9 pounds pretty quickly. The docs weren't too worried about it because babies can lose 10% of their weight with out concern before milk comes in. As mamajake said, 10% of a big baby is a lot more weight than 10% of a small baby.

however, i definitely think she should talk to a LC or LLL, since two weeks is a longish time to be still losing weight.

[OrangeblossomB]

Her baby had lost weight in the hospital, then started gaining once they got home, but lost two ounces at yesterdays appointment. I wonder if they used the same scale for each appointment?

I gave her all the information about the LLL leaders in her area... I'll forward that link from LLL about weight issues on, too. She says she's not going to stop BFing completely like the doctor told her to. I told her to ask the LLL leader when she called about BF friendly doctors in the area, but I don't know how muh help that will be... she's on medicaid and I don't know how much choice she has.

[Equuskia]

Originally Posted by Ziggysmama

Thats absolutly ridiculous. Did he get his medical license in a raffle?

That made me snort.

Ask her how the diaper output is. Lots of wet diapers, good poopy ones? Is the baby alert and seems happy? These indicators are just as important as numbers on a scale, and doctors seem to fail to take note of it.

[OrangeblossomB]

She's having normal diaper output. My friend says she does sleep more than she remembers her first one doing, but seems happy.

I'm so frustrated for her. It doesn't sound like the doctor supports BFing at all... he seems to think formula is better for her than her own mother's milk. Which makes no sense to me. But I was one of the luckiest BFers I know... it came really easy for me, my kids were good latchers right off the bat, and even though I had to go back to work at 8 weeks post partum both times, I didn't have a hard time at all pumping, and no doctor ever suggested supplementing to me. That's why I'm searching so hard for information here... I know all the reasons to BF and not to use formula, but I have no experience with problems related to BF... I flat out didn't have any.

[Mom2J]

Can you maybe gently nudge her to find a new ped? Some people believe anything that comes out of their doctor's mouth, but most peds don't know a ton about bf'ing.

Also, maybe send her to some more bf friendly websites- like here! If her baby is losing weight, it's probably b/c her supply is getting screwed up from supplementing! I'd just tell her to nurse as much as possible, and for as long as possible, and to try to get the baby to "empty" one breast so that she is getting as much hindmilk as possible. And just to keep counting diapers.

[Septagram]

I agree with Mom2J. I think that you should just tell her to get a 2nd opinion.

[OrangeblossomB]

A few of us have urged her to look into a new ped... she says she will. I told her to call LLL in her area to see if they can recommend someone BF friendly. Even at our website, I'm not the only one encouraging her to do that... the others may not feel as strongly about BF as I do, but it's pretty plain that this doctor isn't being supportive of her parenting plan, and we all feel strongly about that. I'll see if she'll come here, too, though... I told her before she had the baby that she should check MDC for BF tips and links and stuff... but now that she's busy with the brand new little one, I'm trying to do some research for her as well.

[evermore82]

Thats absolutly ridiculous. Did he get his medical license in a raffle?

Love it!!

It's too bad so many medical professionals have no clue what the heck they're talking about. I'm sometimes inclined to hand them an educational packet. Sad, really.

[songbh]

I'm seconding all the above advice about putting the mother in touch with an LLL Leader and/or an IBCLC.

I also want to mention that once in a while, a mother who wants to wean will report that her doctor has ordered it, or might hear one of several possible options as THE recommendation ... you always have to treat hearsay as hearsay, KWIM. It is my experience that in a support/helping situation, it rarely does much good to attack the mother's healthcare provider based on what she reports of their instructions. Question, and offer evidence-based information, yes -- say, "what an IDIOT you have for a doctor," no.

This is a situation that calls for a great deal of active listening, gentle and appropriate sharing of information, and building of the mother's confidence as the expert on her own baby and her own breastfeeding relationship. If the mother knows that you are passionate about breastfeeding, she may feel that she can't tell you how hard a time she's having.

My best wishes for your friend and her new nursling -- kudos to the OP for seeking to support and encourage them.

[Teyu]

Ooh you are such a good friend! I was determined to make breastfeeding work for me and I had good online support and it was SO HELPFUL. At the time I was so tired and frustrated and frazzled that I couldn't have gone out and made appointments with LLL leaders. I was too busy just trying to nurse so I posted online. This one woman especially helped me. She was there for me through all my spazzed out moments with her advice.

To anyone else I'm sure she must have looked really pushy but she was a life saver to me because I was pretty much asking for that type of advice and encouragement. If your friend is like me don't hesitate to tell her everything you know, to push her along when she feels like giving up, that her doctor is wack, that it will get easier and pretty soon she and her baby will be experts, etc. Online support is what got me through those super hard 3 weeks.

I wish her luck! Keep us updated.

[OrangeblossomB]

Originally Posted by songbh

I'm seconding all the above advice about putting the mother in touch with an LLL Leader and/or an IBCLC.

I also want to mention that once in a while, a mother who wants to wean will report that her doctor has ordered it, or might hear one of several possible options as THE recommendation ... you always have to treat hearsay as hearsay, KWIM. It is my experience that in a support/helping situation, it rarely does much good to attack the mother's healthcare provider based on what she reports of their instructions. Question, and offer evidence-based information, yes -- say, "what an IDIOT you have for a doctor," no.

This is a situation that calls for a great deal of active listening, gentle and appropriate sharing of information, and building of the mother's confidence as the expert on her own baby and her own breastfeeding relationship. If the mother knows that you are passionate about breastfeeding, she may feel that she can't tell you how hard a time she's having.

My best wishes for your friend and her new nursling -- kudos to the OP for seeking to support and encourage them.

She specifically asked me for information, knowing that it is something I'm passionate about... I think because she expected that I would have better information than somebody who didn't care one way or another. I wouldn't tell her her doctor is an idiot -- although he sounds like one -- or to disregard him completely, because I'm not there, and I'm sure I don't have all the information. I just told her to consider looking for another ped, getting a second opinion, or at the least, reiterate to this doctor that she wants to breastfeed and wants help that supports that decision.

To update, her baby is now gaining weight, and she's working towards weaning off the supplements and regaining her supply. I've forwarded her some kellymom articles on those subjects that looked helpful.