Oh my god, listen to this! UAV doctor

[amitymama]

My sister just emailed me to let me know that a friend of hers who is two days overdue (according to the doctors, she thinks she's not due for another five days because they won't take her word for it that she ovulates later than most women's cycles) started having contractions and went to the hospital, only for the contractions to stop and labor completely stopped. False alarm. She's only 1cm and everything with her and baby is absolutely fine. No high BP, fetal distress, reduced movement, etc.. Nothing. So she started to make to leave to go home and wait for real labor to begin when a doctor comes in and says they have to induce her. He won't give a reason why and doesn't have an answer when she argues that she is only two days overdue (or not even due yet, according to the two different dates they have) and everything is fine. She goes to leave and the doctor threatens her with CPS and taking her baby away from her for putting its life at risk! The nurse then tries to hold her arm down to insert an IV drip of Pitocin. My sister's friend had to kick the doctor in the shins and scream to get them to let her go. She is now holed up at an independent birthing center with supportive midwives, until she goes into labor naturally.

I keep saying "I can't believe that!" but the sad thing is that I can.

[wombjuice]

Ok, that is called abuse. Your sister's friend needs to press charges. The nurse had no right to touch her when she was clearly saying "No!". Stories like this make me absolutely sick to my stomach.

I hope your sister's friend has a wonderful birth despite this traumatic incident.

[JessicaS]

Um....is your sister entirely certain she heard the story correctly?

I don't mean to sound disbelieving but that's extreme.

If that is what happened she needs to press charges.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

That's what I was thinking, abimommy.

Maybe things got a little muddled in the passing along of information.

[thixle]

I, for one, believe it. I was treated about the same... and guess what? Can't file charges because it is VERBAL and medical records often mysteriously change. The written word trumps the verbal decisions of the victim. I hope his shin hurts.
And I'm happy to hear she has a birthing center to run to.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by thixle

I, for one, believe it. I was treated about the same... and guess what? Can't file charges because it is VERBAL and medical records often mysteriously change. The written word trumps the verbal decisions of the victim. I hope his shin hurts.
And I'm happy to hear she has a birthing center to run to.

What's verbal?

You have to sign consent, which she probably did when she first arrived at hospital.

[thixle]

Originally Posted by abimommy

What's verbal?

You have to sign consent unless you are unconscious or something

Yeah, in a perfect world. Actually, when you admit to the hospital, you sign consent to be treated. period. It is a blanket consent from the moment you sign in... and unless you have it WRITTEN, signed, and dated that you refuse something... well, you consent.
So saying "no, don't do that" is trumped by the written consent form.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

Originally Posted by thixle

So saying "no, don't do that" is trumped by the written consent form.

Legally, no, it's not. You can withdraw consent at ANY time during your hospitalization, verbally, written or otherwise. This would make any previous expressins of consent null and void from that point forward. Saying NO constitutes that withdrawl, legally and ethically.

[veganf]

If this is really accurate, she she definitely be pressing charges.

[thixle]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy

Legally, no, it's not. You can withdraw consent at ANY time during your hospitalization, verbally, written or otherwise. This would make any previous expressins of consent null and void from that point forward. Saying NO constitutes that withdrawl, legally and ethically.

but try to find a lawyer to take that on... That's all I'm saying. You can't prove you said that. Unless the doctor/nurse/resident respects your choice, they can do almost anything they want to you. I don't in any way doubt the OP's post, and it makes me ill that there were a few who did...
Yes, you can refuse anything you want, but still, you can only control your own actions. And your medical record reflects whatever the person(s) who wrote it want it to say.

[CookieMonsterMommy]

A lawyer wouldn't take it on even if doctor and nurse both admitted to attempting unwanted procedures on the Pt. There was no harm done, and more often than not (legally) no harm, no foul.

[amitymama]

Originally Posted by abimommy

Um....is your sister entirely certain she heard the story correctly?

I don't mean to sound disbelieving but that's extreme.

If that is what happened she needs to press charges.

Well I can't know for certain but I have no reason to think that she or my sister is lying so I tend to believe them. Why else would a birth centre take in a woman who's not even in labor yet? These people were fairly mainstream before this, aren't anti-doctors or hospitals, just wanted a natural birth without induction.

I have already asked my sister to give her friend my email address so I can speak with her after she has the baby and help talk her through her options. I hope she gets that nurse fired for trying to hold her arm down.

[amitymama]

Originally Posted by thixle

I don't in any way doubt the OP's post, and it makes me ill that there were a few who did...

Thank you. I have to say that I was a little surprised to be disbelieved on MDC of all places.

[thixle]

Originally Posted by abimommy

I don't mean to sound disbelieving but that's extreme.

Sorry, this is pounding in my head... and it won't go away. What is extreme about it? That they threatened CPS? Said she was putting her babies life in danger? The nurse holding her arm? The doctor not giving any reasons?

I say the most unbelievable/extreme part was kicking the doctor-- and getting out of there without being induced. Hell, I got strapped to a bed at 3 am. I peed on the nurse when she had her hand inside me, but that was as "violent" as i got... because I was terrified of what they would do to me/my child if I left.

Okay, I've been staring at this post for a while now, wondering if i should hit submit-- ack.

[veganf]

Originally Posted by amitymama

Thank you. I have to say that I was a little surprised to be disbelieved on MDC of all places.

I wasn't disbelieving you, I was just so incredibly shocked and appalled by what happened that I simply HOPED it wasn't entirely true because that is just SCARY that they would threaten her with CPS for refusing an induction and then hold her down to try and start an IV against her will...sounds like something out of a nightmare horror film!!!

[barefootpoetry]

Sadly, I don't think this is far-fetched or exaggerated at all. I hear stories like this all the time. Just further cements my desire to never set foot in a hospital again unless someone is dying! I'm so glad your sister had a safe haven to go to.

[lovingmommyhood]

Originally Posted by amitymama

Thank you. I have to say that I was a little surprised to be disbelieved on MDC of all places.

Even here on MDC we have the ability to think independently. We're not all one unit with the same thoughts and opinions.

[Mama2Xander]

Ugh, that sucks. I'm glad she has somewhere safe to go.

I just wanted to point out though that if they did try to press charges, the doctor would have just as much of a right to press assault charges against them (for kicking him in the shin)... which would not exactly strengthen her case, yk?

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy

Legally, no, it's not. You can withdraw consent at ANY time during your hospitalization, verbally, written or otherwise. This would make any previous expressins of consent null and void from that point forward. Saying NO constitutes that withdrawl, legally and ethically.

You can also alter the hospital consent form to your standards. This best kept secret is the reason to fill out paperwork before a hospital delivery (or in case of a transfer from an out-of-hospital birth). The best portions to change are any that give you the standard-of-care-we-can-do-whatever gobblety-goop. Just sign and initial it.

[zoebird]

for whatever it might be worth, having a video recording of every event in a hospital or with a doctor is helpful.

when i went to the doctor last, i got a basic physical. overall, it was fine. no real problems (normal power trip stuff that most people wouldn't even notice).

months later, they're harassing me about the bill. first saying that i never gave them insurance info, even though they'd already filed a claim. then, the insurance company said that they woudln't cover certain aspects of it because it isn't part of network care. of course, i asked what that was, since i only had a physical and physicals are free. they informed me that i'd had a visit with the midwife for which they were being billed (an out of network one, which means zero coverage up tot he deductable) and also a "medical examination." they told me to talk with the doctor about the "codes" and such.

i called the doctor and they said that according to their records, i saw the midwife for 45 minutes (on a day that the midwife isn't in office) and that it included a pelvic exam. no such thing happened at all. i had a physical--and i didn't even wear the gown. i told them that this was fraud.

i called my insurance company to make a fraud complaint. they asked if i had any 'evidence' that i didn't receive a pelvic exam or time with the midwife. the only thing that i could tell them was that if the midwife couldn't describe my appearance in detail (and heck, i'm well present on the internet, so they could even go there to find pictures of me), and if i couldn't describe her, then it's likely i hadn't seen the woman (and i hadn't!).

i reiterated that i had a physical and described that. they said that they would contact the doctor's office to 'follow up' and see. they did ask to speak to the midwife, who has no recollection of me what so ever (nor I of her), and then asked the billing department about that. they said "oh, we got her records confused with someone else" and then billed the insurance company for the physical, which was paid in full.

yeah, right. they wanted $250 from me, that's what, instead of the $55 for the physical from the insurance company. :P

afterwards, the fraud office of the insurance company recommended that i have recordings (video) of all of my appointments with any doctor or hospital, if i wanted to make certain that there were no fraudulent claims or abuses.

this makes sense. while i'm planning a UC, if i do transfer to a hospital, we're bringing a friend in to record exactly what happens--what i do and do not consent to verbally or otherwise--and we'll have it on tape as any form of evidence whether for a charge of malpractice or a claim of abuse or a claim of fraud.

oh, and of course anyone can refuse to be recorded, for what it's worth, which might mean one would not get any care because of the desire for me to record that care.

sucks, though, that we have to do this at all, and let alone that they can refuse to care for us because we want to make sure we're well treated.