I need honesty re: UC + breech - Page 2

[trimestersdoula]

Originally Posted by zoebird

first, it's important to remember that babies can and do turn in labor. so, you're 36 weeks and baby is sitting breech--no big deal IMO. you have weeks before the due date, so the baby still has time to change positions before labor as well as change during labor!

second, i see breech as a version of "normal" birth and a lot less risky than the risks of c-section. the only position for which i would seek a c-section is a transverse lie that doesn't change during labor.

so, for me, i would birth a breech baby vaginally.

Couldn't have said it better. Completely 100% agree! Now I don't have to type it all out. Thanks zoebird!

[Intertwined]

I would UC a breech. I would not do so without having some good information on hand about how to unstick a stuck breech and what specifically NOT to do.

[vesper0]

I have had the unusual experience of birthing two breech babies and they were both unattended births. One of the babies was my first child. I am a petite woman, weighed less than 100 lbs. prior to pregnancy, with what my first OB, said was inadequate pelvic measurements. So, just because the medical community doesn't think safe vaginal birth for breeches is possible, doesn't make it so. Breech birth must be a "hands off birth" and not something I would do if I feared the process. If you do have an attendant they should have experience, which is just hard to come by. I understand your husbands concerns, my DH had the same worries, before the birth. He isn't making a choice between baby and mother. Now, he looks back on his fear and can't believe his change of perspective, it was fear based, not fact based. You really should read what Henci Goer wrote in Obsterical Myths vs. Research Realities on breeches, as pp said. After both breech births we, baby and I, were fine. PM me if you would like more info.
Also, you have time, so relax and try some techniques to turn the baby. It could be a moot point later.

[akaisha]

hey mama,

i plan to UC when i have my babies and would definitely UC a breech.

i haven't read through everything yet but here's my two cents:

- breech is a version of normal
- frank breech should technically be easier to deliver than footling or stargazer
- baby could turn anytime in the next 4-6 weeks (assuming 40 weeks + 2) or in labour
- check out spinning babies
- chiropractic, massage, and accupuncture have all been known to help babies turn
- try external version
- read this birth story
- some babies are breech because it's safer for them to be breech. example - a really short cord

if you decide to UC breech:

- one of the most important things for you to do is make sure you're really open. being fully dilated (whatever that means for you) is super important! this is the one and only instance where i would try to hold off pushing until i absolutely had to even if my body wanted to.
- remember hands off the breech! if anyone touches baby before the arms are out they could trigger the moro reflex, and if the baby's arms are still inside you that could cause a nuchal hand or worse, a nuchal arm.
- do not touch the cord unless you have to until the baby's head is out. when you touch a cord you could cause it to spasm and that's not good with a breech because the cord is already being compressed between baby's head and your pubic bone. if you want you can get DH to check if the cord is pulsating by looking closely and touching very very lightly if he has to.
- stand if you can (lean on something), kneel as upright as possible, use a birth stool, or get someone to help you with a supported squat. the more vertical you are the better with a breech.
- tell DH not to ever pull on the baby, i can see how it would be tempting to do, but it's better to allow baby's own weight to help ease it down as opposed to pulling.
- breathe as deeply as you can, baby needs all the help it can get with oxygen because the cord will be as least part way compressed from the time between when the umbilicus is first out until the head is fully out.

listen to your body, listen to your baby, if something inside you is telling you this baby will turn, i would trust that. remember that the hospital is only a short drive away. if you have to transfer, have DH call them and let them know you're coming so they can get a heads up prepping. remember that even if you were in hosp it can take anywhere from 20-40 minutes to fully prep the OR and you for surgery. when you look at it that way, since you're only three blocks away, being home puts you no further behind.

good luck!

[Kidzaplenty]

Thanks for the step by step. It is what I would do naturally, but I have never gone through the thought process of stepping it out.

[cottonwood]

I do personally feel that breech (although a variation of normal) carries more risk than vertex birth, and it was a concern for me. Regardless, I have to echo what Ruthla said:

I'd feel safer UCing a breech than having an attendent who didn't know how to manage breech (and was thus likely to cause problems by mis-managing the delivery.) And I'd certainly feel safer UCing a breech than going into a hospital where I'm likely to get cut open (unless I had a "6th sense" that c/s was the right choice for this particular birth.)

I know of several successful breech UC births. I also know of one death in a UC breech birth (although I do not know how or whether it was managed.)

The conditions under which the birth happens are crucial, and to the list Akaisha gave I'd add that the laboring mother needs to be as much in her body, not her head, as possible, and not have people talking to her, distracting her, sending fear hormones her way, etc.

[mama in the forest]

My 13 pound girl turned just a few hours before labor began. She had been breech my whole pregnancy and I was prepared to birth her UC. She did turn, and I wanted to mention it because babies can and do turn up until the last minute. (even large ones )

[blue_bug]

it sounds like you don't necessarily want to go uc, you just don't want a c-section, so to me, looking for an experienced midwife might be up your alley. i'm not sure what the climate is where you're at, but there are probably a few of them around.

at this point, and that may change at any time , i don't think i'd be comfortable uc with a breech, so my back up plan is the farm in tn...

[paquerette]

Do you have Thinking Woman's Guide? I'm rereading it right now and just read the chapter on breeches. It's got good info about the different factors and the risks involved, and basically with most breeches vaginal delivery being less risky than csection. Very hubby-friendly cut and dried info.

Also, do you have a chiropractor? Find someone who can do Webster technique.

[chirp]

i just had my first chiro appointment today, and it felt GREAT. It was my first time at a a chiro...my pelvis popped three times and was sore afterward but it feels pretty good right now.

Of course, baby hasn't turned, but it was only 1 session, so I wasn't really expecting that.

Thank you so much for all the information.

When i was getting the ultrasound to confirm breech the tech said "Well, honey no one WANTS a c-section, but its okay, and it will make it easier on you." I was like, ummm, no its not okay.

For me c-section is a last resort, not an option.

I agree completely with those who have said that they DO NOT feel the situation would be any safer in a hospital. The fact that he is breech (for now) makes his birth about ten billion times LESS safe in a hospital. That's why I felt like, people would think I was crazy. I was willing to hospital-birth with my CNM when he was head down. Now that he's head up, hospital birth I feel would be out of the question.

I am confident that he will turn. After the chiro he was moving around so much, at my next appt I'm gonna ask to use one of their rooms to do some of the techniques, this way I don't waste all that movement on a drive home (when I could be doing pelvic rocks, etc.).

Once again, thank you to everyone. I've kind of exhausted my spending resources so I can't really buy any more books (and our library selection SUCKS) but I'm trying to get as much info as possible from internet and personal stories. So, if you got 'em, keep 'em coming!

[Intertwined]

I get to find out, it seems. Both my babies were breech today.

[kaylee18]

Libraries often have Henci Goer's books.

[~Yola]

Originally Posted by chirp

Is there anyone who has had UC breech birth? I want good and bad experiences. What made the experience good or bad? Do you think I'm a nutball for even considering this? don't be afraid to be brutal.

thanks

You can read my UC Breech Birth story here, and feel free to PM me if you'd like about anything at all.

I highly recomend both you and your husband read this article, it's one of the best ones I've ever seen on Breech Birth..Breech Of Trust

As to what made the experience good..well, not having an attendant He was a Frank Breech, and I knew that my husband and I both knew how to handle it, so the moment I realised he was breech I just completely let go and did what my body told me to do. I highly doubt even my breech trained MW would have just let me be to do as I needed, just the energy she would have put out of nervousness and exitement would have compromised my ability to stay totally calm and focused.

Oh and for what it's worth, I'm quite petite, 5'3" and barely 99 Lbs. when I'm not pregnant.

[boigrrrlwonder]

Originally Posted by akaisha

hey mama,

i plan to UC when i have my babies and would definitely UC a breech.

i haven't read through everything yet but here's my two cents:

- breech is a version of normal
- frank breech should technically be easier to deliver than footling or stargazer
- baby could turn anytime in the next 4-6 weeks (assuming 40 weeks + 2) or in labour
- check out spinning babies
- chiropractic, massage, and accupuncture have all been known to help babies turn
- try external version
- read this birth story
- some babies are breech because it's safer for them to be breech. example - a really short cord

if you decide to UC breech:

- one of the most important things for you to do is make sure you're really open. being fully dilated (whatever that means for you) is super important! this is the one and only instance where i would try to hold off pushing until i absolutely had to even if my body wanted to.
- remember hands off the breech! if anyone touches baby before the arms are out they could trigger the moro reflex, and if the baby's arms are still inside you that could cause a nuchal hand or worse, a nuchal arm.
- do not touch the cord unless you have to until the baby's head is out. when you touch a cord you could cause it to spasm and that's not good with a breech because the cord is already being compressed between baby's head and your pubic bone. if you want you can get DH to check if the cord is pulsating by looking closely and touching very very lightly if he has to.
- stand if you can (lean on something), kneel as upright as possible, use a birth stool, or get someone to help you with a supported squat. the more vertical you are the better with a breech.
- tell DH not to ever pull on the baby, i can see how it would be tempting to do, but it's better to allow baby's own weight to help ease it down as opposed to pulling.
- breathe as deeply as you can, baby needs all the help it can get with oxygen because the cord will be as least part way compressed from the time between when the umbilicus is first out until the head is fully out.

listen to your body, listen to your baby, if something inside you is telling you this baby will turn, i would trust that. remember that the hospital is only a short drive away. if you have to transfer, have DH call them and let them know you're coming so they can get a heads up prepping. remember that even if you were in hosp it can take anywhere from 20-40 minutes to fully prep the OR and you for surgery. when you look at it that way, since you're only three blocks away, being home puts you no further behind.

good luck!

I love all the info you posted. Thanks.

[akaisha]

Originally Posted by boigrrrlwonder

I love all the info you posted. Thanks.

you're very welcome. i'm a bit of a research fanatic so i'm glad when it's helpful for other people.

ETA: chrip, i think it's good that you're reading as many personal stories as you can. ancedotal evidence is probably going to help your piece of mind more than the clinical stuff right now. i googled "breech birth stories" and came up with the following:

Olivia's breech homebirth

Maia's breech homebirth (this is Dr. Sarah Buckley's story about the birth of her daughter, google Sarah Buckley for some amazing birth and baby info)

Willie's breech homebirth (this is Laura Shanley's story about the birth of her son, google her too)

Donnegal's breech homebirth

check out this website

[A_Random_Phrase]

Originally Posted by chirp

Once again, thank you to everyone. I've kind of exhausted my spending resources so I can't really buy any more books (and our library selection SUCKS) but I'm trying to get as much info as possible from internet and personal stories. So, if you got 'em, keep 'em coming!

Have you thought of interlibrary loan? Our librarian told me about it (We live in a rural area and our library is a tiny college one). We find the ISBN # by looking the book up on Amazon (this only works if you can "look inside" the book) and give that #, the author, publisher and, I think maybe the date published (can't quite remember on that. It has been a long time) to the librarian. She contacts whoever librarians contact to get the book. When it comes, you pick it up. When you give it back, it goes back to the library it came from.

[Fruitful4Him]

I just had my 5th baby.. I was planning an UC like we had with our 3rd, but when I went into labor my intuition told me to get to the hospital..I didn't know it at the time but my baby was frank breech. My intuition also told me to not let them break my water..which I made sure to tell each nurse and doctor..my usual 2 hours of labor dragged on through 8-9 hours AFTER arrival to the hospital..stayed 8cm+ all day.. I finally consented to them releasing my water when it was protruding from my body the size of a softball..I didn't want a huge release/explosion..lol.. anyways, instinct is a powerful thing here..because had I allowed the release of my waters they would have realized baby was breech.. baby was born in 2 pushes by the way..very easy birth. I think that was due to laboring the baby down completely. BTW.. I am thankful my instinct told me to get to the hospital..not due to the breech, but due to the massive hemmorrage afterwords when my uterus would not contract/was bogging up.. your body knows; trust your body..trust that instinct. If you feel that being home and Ucing is the safe thing..do it. IF your gut tells you to get to the hospita; do it. That is really my only advice.

[skyblufig]

Just wanted to chime in -- my UC baby flipped about 10 hours or so before she was born (not remembering exactly, have to go back and read my own birth story ). She was a big flip-flopper the whole pregnancy and kept right on flipping head-up/head-down. I was pretty freaked out by the mws I'd been seeing but after doing a lot of research, not to mention weighing in with the fine women here , I came to the conclusion that I'd most definitely UC a breech. As it was, she made the decision for us. But I too believe that breech is just a variation on "normal". Peace to you in whatever decision you come to,

[amberskyfire]

In the meantime, do you have a copy of "Emergency Childbirth?" It would make your husband feel much better, I think, if he could read how to deal with a breech emergency should one occur. That might give him some confidence that at least if something did happen, he would know exactly what to do and could help the baby until the three of you get to a hospital.

[chirp]

yeah we found a pdf copy online which i will probably print out...he HATES computers (that's half the reason its so hard to get him to research stuff). But even if i don't get to printing it out, we have it.

thanks!