Mamas expecting boys--the issue of the big C - Page 2

[annettemarie]

Hey ladies. I have removed several posts that are pro-circumcision. This thread is specifically about choosing not to circumcize a second child after you have circ'd a first. It is not a place to justify circumcising, which is against MDC's User Agreement. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to PM me.

And, my non-modly two cents-- My first two boys are cut and Daniel isn't. To have the courage to admit I screwed up and to put my foot down and not allow any more children to have to bear the consequences of a dumb decision I made is one of finest mommy moments.

[robertandenith]

with all due respect, I thought we were talking about "the issue of the big C", I am pro-nonC but I also respect everyone's opinion and decisions, we were all very friendly about it too, oh well....

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by Sasha_girl

Speaking gently here--I would ask him to present his side using research or by watching a video of the procedure (that he wants to put his newborn son through). I know that several women (just from reading message boards through the years) seem to give their dh's more input on this subject than they allow themselves and *I believe* (disclaimed) that it should be a 50/50 decision. One shouldn't get more of a vote--using less research--because one has a penis.

That is, of course, my 2 pennies.

Yes I have, and since I have sent those videos we haven't spoken about it... but we are definitely going to do so, he is been working like a maniac so I am waiting for the right moment and will talk about it more in depth... he is a wonderful man and a great father, almost like a mother lol, and I want to respect his decisions as well, we need to agree on this and make the same decisions. I would never do something he won't want me to do kwim? We have a great relationship. I am going to take his case of him not wanting to do a vasectomy, which is almost the same thing. That's something in my side haha!!!!

[barefootpoetry]

I can't bear to watch circ videos (even when I'm not pregnant and over-emotional!), I can't imagine someone who actually owns a penis being able to sit through one!

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by barefootpoetry

I can't bear to watch circ videos (even when I'm not pregnant and over-emotional!), I can't imagine someone who actually owns a penis being able to sit through one!

that's one of the reasons he won't watch them!!!! but then I am not sure why he would want his baby to do it?!?!! I just don't get it!!!!!

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by robertandenith

with all due respect, I thought we were talking about "the issue of the big C", I am pro-nonC but I also respect everyone's opinion and decisions, we were all very friendly about it too, oh well....

On MDC, that is bound to be somewhat a one-sided conversation, since we do not host conversations promoting/advocating/encouraging circumcision, as per the User Agreement. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. This is also outlined in the UA.

[robertandenith]

I just sent you a PM

[barefootpoetry]

Originally Posted by robertandenith

that's one of the reasons he won't watch them!!!! but then I am not sure why he would want his baby to do it?!?!! I just don't get it!!!!!

yeah, that's pretty freakin' lame of him. he doesn't even have the guts to WATCH it being done, yet he wants his innocent newborn baby boy to suffer through it being done to him! Nice!

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by barefootpoetry

yeah, that's pretty freakin' lame of him. he doesn't even have the guts to WATCH it being done, yet he wants his innocent newborn baby boy to suffer through it being done to him! Nice!

Okay guess what? I never really asked him that question and I did last night... It was amazing how 'speechless' he got... lol (I am doing great progress here!!!).

This was our conversation last night:

Me: "So, honey, why you don't want to get a vasectomy?"
Him: "Because I don't want no one to be cutting down there"
Me: "Oh so you do want your son to get circumcised?"
Him: "That's different! That's just the tip!"
Me: "The tip?!?!?! Have you watched the video I sent you?"
Him: "No, I won't"
Me: "Oh so you won't watch them because might be disturbing right? and you want that for your son?"

*****10 seconds of silence here******

Me: "I can't go through this, and it's our little baby, I can't do this to my baby" ...as I am telling him this my voice breaks cuz I started to cry.

--gosh as I type this I get all teary... I can't think of doing this to my baby, I just can't.. So I told him: "I don't want to do it baby"

I think after this talk he is willing to stop the cycle, it was a good and friendly talk, I love my husband so much

I don't think men that has been circumcised knows the real effect on the child because they did have forgotten or never really remember been circumcised, so they assume it is correct to have their kids circumcised specially if it comes from a macho Latino perspective... What I got in my favor is that he does not want to get a vasectomy, I am so glad he doesn't. God works in mysterious ways

[meredyth0315]

That is wonderful news!!! I'm so happy for you guys, awesome communication and a great analogy I might add

[jule924]

I left it up to dh with our first and pretty much just let it go in my mind - no research - big mistake! I so wish I had thought through it more and done some research on it. I didn't find this board until ds#1 was 4 mths old and had I found it earlier I really think it would have made a difference. But after, even though I still had the same amount of knowledge, I deeply regretted doing that to him. In my heart I knew I had done the wrong thing.

Now fast forward to #2 - I put my foot down - NO CIRC!!! I think it was easier for dh to accept and agree with since ds#2 was 6 weeks early and was so little.

I don't think this will be an issue for them as they grow up. I mean, so what if their penis's look different. They don't have the same color eyes! I don't think that should be part of the decision making process.

[bettie cracker]

Help! My husband and I are definitely leaning toward no circ, but we really want to find out some numbers for males needing circ for medical reasons after infancy. I can't find this anywhere. Although we *think* its not frequent enough to get Wip circ'd, we need to see the numbers, just so we know that we did unbiased research. Has anyone found this?

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by bettie cracker

Help! My husband and I are definitely leaning toward no circ, but we really want to find out some numbers for males needing circ for medical reasons after infancy. I can't find this anywhere. Although we *think* its not frequent enough to get Wip circ'd, we need to see the numbers, just so we know that we did unbiased research. Has anyone found this?

There is not a legitimate reason to do this for medical reasons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOtI...eature=related

[bettie cracker]

Originally Posted by robertandenith

There is not a legitimate reason to do this for medical reasons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOtI...eature=related

Thanks for the link. It is a really informative video, and backs up what we were already thinking - though still didn't give me the answer I am searching for. I know there is no medical reason for a newborn, but we are looking for the rates of males that are not infants needing circumcision for a medical reason later. My f-i-l had to about 10 years ago b/c of diabetes complications (I think that's why, it was never a big topic of discussion at dinner or anything. ;-) ) - so I was wondering about numbers in those terms. Mainly to be able to have concrete facts - or, to put it bluntly, be able to tell that nurse that she is full of it.

[holothuroidea]

The risks of the procedure as a newborn surely outweigh the risk of needing the foreskin removed for medical reasons as an adult.

I don't know any numbers. Anecdotally, though, I know of one person who had it removed as an adult. My MIL dad "needed" it done as a teenager because of an infection (he was from Italy, where it was not common practice to do it to newborns). They strapped him to the kitchen table for the procedure! Sanitary conditions are a lot different than they were back then.

I'm sure that the procedure was unnecessary. They could have given him antibiotics/ointments but they removed the foreskin because back then it was thought to be "dirty" anyway.

I mean, think about it. It's just a piece of skin, why would you need to remove it? I guess it would happen as often as needing your ear lobe removed.

Maybe if you have STD's? I don't know...

[Sigrid]

My DH (who was born in a different country, and would die if he knew I was telling his business) was circ'd as a teenager (maybe 12 or 13). I can't remember the exact reason, but I think his foreskin wouldn't retract all the way. Not positive though.

[foogoomomma]

my fil had his removed at age 43 and that wasn't that long ago! He had an infection and that's why they had it done. He actually begged me to have my first son circumcised so he wouldn't have the memory he now does.

We're still on the fence. I don't want to do it this time around, but dh is adamant. So, it's his job to convince me... and he knows it. I really wish there was a forum where both sides were able to be pro and against circumcision to see both sides. I understand why it's not allowed, but I really want to see stats on both sides of the fence too.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by foogoomomma

my fil had his removed at age 43 and that wasn't that long ago! He had an infection and that's why they had it done. He actually begged me to have my first son circumcised so he wouldn't have the memory he now does.

We're still on the fence. I don't want to do it this time around, but dh is adamant. So, it's his job to convince me... and he knows it. I really wish there was a forum where both sides were able to be pro and against circumcision to see both sides. I understand why it's not allowed, but I really want to see stats on both sides of the fence too.

I always find this to be an interesting but wrong-headed argument. Ok, maybe the baby won't remember it in the same way a grown-up will, but it still happens, the pain is still felt. And the baby has no words to process the trauma. Really, if it is so horrible and traumatizing, wouldn't a 43 year-old be better equipped to handle it than a newborn?

FWIW, I had these discussions too and we decided no circ if we have boys. I had some family members coming to me with some pretty irrational arguments for why I should subject a baby to this.

Best of luck with all your discussions! I know it can be rough.

[Astoria]

I may be a bit uninformed on this point but I can't understand the concept of "needed to have it done later."

Women get infections and such but no one ever needs to have the clitoral hood removed. People don't need their eyelids removed.

It just really confuses me as a question. Its a body part that self cleans, self lubricates, and is protective of the delicate tissue underneath. Why would you "need it removed." For an infection, it makes no sense to me, just take antibiotics. For adhesions, I guess I understand that that's complicated. But there must be a way to deal with it other than surgically removing a functioning body part? Maybe there isn't, I don't know, but it seems to me there must be.

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by Sigrid

My DH (who was born in a different country, and would die if he knew I was telling his business) was circ'd as a teenager (maybe 12 or 13). I can't remember the exact reason, but I think his foreskin wouldn't retract all the way. Not positive though.

maybe he wasn't just ready... it works the same as birth, why to induce when the baby is not ready yet?!?

Originally Posted by foogoomomma

I don't want to do it this time around, but dh is adamant. So, it's his job to convince me... and he knows it.

Send him this video, there are the 2 sides here in the end, they agree that is pure BS to perform C. It is a really funny but 'serious' video (set of 3) so make sure he watches at least the 2nd video which goes exactly where it needs to go!

Penn & Teller: Bullshit! - 301 - Circumcision 2/3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1NbfRzHv74

My husband was the same as yours, I showed him this video (because the others are too traumatic and this one has the 2 sides - and they have some sort of humor) when the video was over, he said: It got me thinking...

Originally Posted by Astoria

Women get infections and such but no one ever needs to have the clitoral hood removed. People don't need their eyelids removed.

Amen!