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As a Christian I have a difficult time understanding... - Page 7

post #121 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL View Post
We are here to grow,experience and create. Please don't put words in my mouth about God not caring about us as his love for all life is infinite and eternal. I simply mean that God is not concerned about our beliefs because beliefs having nothing to do with the soul. They are of the mind. What we think is real here is one big illusion. Another reason we are here is because we chose to be. Earth is a place where you can have all kinds of experiences.
I'm sorry for my wording. I was coming from a place where parents who I have known who care little for their children lay down no rules and give them no structure- my husband's parents as an example.
post #122 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL View Post
We are here to grow,experience and create. Please don't put words in my mouth about God not caring about us as his love for all life is infinite and eternal. I simply mean that God is not concerned about our beliefs because beliefs having nothing to do with the soul. They are of the mind. What we think is real here is one big illusion. Another reason we are here is because we chose to be. Earth is a place where you can have all kinds of experiences.
Well, your philosophy on the meaning and purpose of life is nothing like Christianity's, but is very similar to what the average person on the street would say when asked the question.

You know, one of the things that struck me as so profound initially about the Catholic Church was the answer to the question "Why are we here?" My entire life, every single person I met would give an answer similar to what Thomas said above - that it's all about "experiences" and "growing" or some other such emphemeral, vague answer. I even gave the same answer myself when I was not Catholic.

When I first heard the Catholic Church's definition of why we are here (this is literally page one of the catechism) it hit me like a ton of bricks. You ready?

We are here to know, love, and serve God in this life so that we may be happy with Him in Heaven in the next.

That's it.

Short. Simple. Doable.

No mystical ramblings about stuff I didn't understand - just a very simple set of instructions.

Know Him, love Him, and serve Him.

And as the Church says, you cannot love Whom you do not know, and you cannot serve Whom you do not love.

Hence, the whole reason for the existence of the catechism - so you can know Him. Why would you follow His laws if you do not understand why He made them? You wouldn't. But the more you know about Him, the more you love His law and want to serve Him by obeying. That's how it works.
post #123 of 251
Very interesting Stacy! I hadn't known that.
But one must learn and grow to become closer to God, am I right?
Quote:
Hence, the whole reason for the existence of the catechism - so you can know Him. Why would you follow His laws if you do not understand why He made them? You wouldn't. But the more you know about Him, the more you love His law and want to serve Him by obeying.
The parts I bolded stand out to me as being something one has to gain knowledge and experience on or grow into. That's what I got from your statement- one must still learn and grow into loving God. Please expound if I am totally off. Obviously I am not Catholic, I never have been, but I am very curious. I am not going to pretend to know your religion so please don't take my above statement/conclusion as meaning such.

Like I said before for us LDS it's not just about being with God but also being like Him, just like we grow from children to adults here on Earth.
post #124 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
I'm sorry for my wording. I was coming from a place where parents who I have known who care little for their children lay down no rules and give them no structure- my husband's parents as an example.

Unfortunately that is a big problem in our society. On a spiritual level I believe the universe was set up where everyone experiences the results of their actions. It is not divine punishment but natural consequences. We will all have to one day experience what it was like to be the other person we either helped or hurt both directly and indirectly. Near death experiencers report being taken on a life review while in the light. Being in the light is perfect but the life review process can be unpleasant because you experience what you caused others to experience from their perspective. There is no judgement or rebuke from the being of light but it is simply the soul relecting on its past life.
post #125 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL View Post
We will all have to one day experience what it was like to be the other person we either helped or hurt both directly and indirectly. Near death experiencers report being taken on a life review while in the light. Being in the light is perfect but the life review process can be unpleasant because you experience what you caused others to experience from their perspective. There is no judgement or rebuke from the being of light but it is simply the soul relecting on its past life.
I am LOL at the above because that is basically just a New Age spin on the Catholic doctrine of the Particular Judgment. That's pretty funny.

The doctrine of the Particular Judgment states the soul of every man at death undergoes a Particular Judgment where they will stand before the Lord and give an accounting of every thought, word, and deed, in their life and will see how their actions/omissions affected others from the perfect lens of God's omniscient viewpoint, not our own limited one. Then the Judgment of God's mercy (salvation) or justice (condemnation) is rendered unto that soul for all eternity.
post #126 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Very interesting Stacy! I hadn't known that.
But one must learn and grow to become closer to God, am I right?
That's what I got from your statement- one must still learn and grow into loving God. Please expound if I am totally off.
Yes, that's exactly right.

You grow in love for God as you gain knowledge of Him, and therefore gain holiness and draw closer to Him and draw away from the world.

It's not about gaining "experiences" or having "fun."

Unfortunately, I think this is what the majority of society thinks of life today, that the purpose of life is to have as many "experiences" as you can while you're here before you go, because their is nothing after this.
post #127 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
Yes, that's exactly right.

You grow in love for God as you gain knowledge of Him, and therefore gain holiness and draw closer to Him and draw away from the world.

It's not about gaining "experiences" or having "fun."

Unfortunately, I think this is what the majority of society thinks of life today, that the purpose of life is to have as many "experiences" as you can while you're here before you go, because their is nothing after this.
Oh I think I am understanding a bit better (forgive me. I can be preeetty dense!). So you are saying we are not here to live chaotic free-for-all lives as a means of "experiences" which is what the world tells us- "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die"- because true growth and experience come through God and His work?
post #128 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL View Post
Unfortunately that is a big problem in our society. On a spiritual level I believe the universe was set up where everyone experiences the results of their actions. It is not divine punishment but natural consequences. We will all have to one day experience what it was like to be the other person we either helped or hurt both directly and indirectly. Near death experiencers report being taken on a life review while in the light. Being in the light is perfect but the life review process can be unpleasant because you experience what you caused others to experience from their perspective. There is no judgement or rebuke from the being of light but it is simply the soul relecting on its past life.
This is very interesting Thomas. For me I think you are right AND that it is also God- Like the Big Bang theory could be right but it would be the way God works not proof He isn't there.
post #129 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Oh I think I am understanding a bit better (forgive me. I can be preeetty dense!). So you are saying we are not here to live chaotic free-for-all lives as a means of "experiences" which is what the world tells us- "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die"- because true growth and experience come through God and His work?

Exactly.

And it probably worth noting that the only "doctrine" of Luciferianism is a version of what you stated above (eat, drink, and be merry) and that is:

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law."

If the only "law" is to do whatever you feel, whenever you feel, (as long as it '"feels" right/good at the time) then you're answering to no one above yourself and you've made yourself 'god.'
post #130 of 251
Ok at first I thought you said "Lutheranism" and I was like "oh no she didn't!" :

Where are you getting this "Luciferianism"? Crowley?
post #131 of 251
While looking for a definition of Luciferianism I found this:

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

2 Timothy 4:3


Kinda eerie.
post #132 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansricerevolt View Post
Sorry you've experienced this. The Holy Spirit is God and I trust him. Its his way of communicating with his creation. I will always rely on him. Your right that it must not contradict with Gods law.

I can never understand division but do have faith that God is bigger then that and will use it in what ever way serves his purpose.

When quoting your question, I wasn't aiming my comment directly at you. Sorry if you understood it that way.
I was never saying the Holy Spirit wasn't God. I said a lot of people get an idea in their head and use the Holy Spirit to justify it. One guy hears the Holy Spirit saying "do XYZ" another guy hears the Holy Spirit saying "kill guy #1 for doing XYZ. He is evil." they aren't both hearing from the Holy Spirit.
post #133 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janelovesmax View Post
I'm just curious about this statement. How can you not be concerned about your final destination? As a Christian, I'm totally concerned about it. One of my primary objectives is to be with God after I die, and although of course it's not in my power where my soul will end up, I cannot help but be concerned.
My goal is to serve God and honor Him. I do it because He is worthy and because he has commanded it, not because there is anything in it from me. He can do with me as He please with me when he is done with me. I do hope and I do pray and I do desire to be with Him for all eternity. It grieves to contemplate eternity without Him. Not because I fear Hell but because I want God so badly. It shames me to think that I might be found wanting (although it surely wouldn't surprise me) I think He is pretty great and want to keep right on serving Him and worshiping Him eternally. But that is not my motivation and not my reason. I don't worship and serve Him as repayment for salvation or to earn my salvation. I do it because it is His due regardless of if he cares two cents about me. regardless of if he gives me what I need for today or what I desire for eternity. and if he doesn't find me worthy then so be it. Who am I to complain about what God does with his creation.

it may seem depressing but it is actually quite freeing.
post #134 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
One need to be careful when they rely on following the Holy Spirit.
I was questioning this statement. Maybe it came out wrong?
post #135 of 251
Yes, not worrying about where I will end up after my life is over is freeing.

And it means that the things I do to become closer to God are not done because it assures me a place in Heaven.

What if God's plan is that I do not go to Heaven? Then there is no amount of works I can do to change that.

I think this is where people believe Catholics do works to get into Heaven. No, Catholics do works to become closer to God. We can't prayer our way in, or work our way in.

In my life I want to become closer to Christ and for me that means behaving in ways that are Holy.
post #136 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
While looking for a definition of Luciferianism I found this:

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

2 Timothy 4:3


Kinda eerie.
Wow! But how do we know what is "sound doctrine?"

I just wanted to thank everyone for posting their opinions in this thread. It's really helping me with something I've been struggling through.
post #137 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Where are you getting this "Luciferianism"? Crowley?
No, Crowley is just a contemporary 20th century follower, along with Blavatsky, Hubbard, Parsons, Sanger, et al., but Luciferianism is more of a blanket term for the much more ancient Babylonian mystery religions which go back much further in the worship of satan under his many, many names.
post #138 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace View Post
Wow! But how do we know what is "sound doctrine?"

I just wanted to thank everyone for posting their opinions in this thread. It's really helping me with something I've been struggling through.
That is the purpose of the Church - to be the protector of sound doctrine.
post #139 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
While looking for a definition of Luciferianism I found this:

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

2 Timothy 4:3


Kinda eerie.

Here is the original translation from the Latin Vulgate (your version is not too far off):

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3/DRV
post #140 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
What if God's plan is that I do not go to Heaven? Then there is no amount of works I can do to change that.
God does not have a "plan" for anyone to go to Hell. God wishes that ALL men should be saved (this is straight out of scripture) but he does require certain "works" (read: ACTIONS) on one's part in order to be saved. He is quite specific about the actions one must take as well (again, straight out of scripture) and this includes the Sacraments and staying free from mortal sin.

P.S. I just noticed your siggy - did you know Mansfield was a well-known Luciferian and a member of Crowley's sect in Los Angeles? There is even speculation that she was murdered as part of an occult ritual.

Quote:
The Church of Satan:

Founded, by Anton S. LaVey in San Francisco, California, in 1966, on Walpurgisnach or April 30, the most celebrated feast of the Witchcraft.

- LaVey, appeared as the Devil in the film "Rosemary's Baby", and was technical director of another film, "The Devil's Rain". His most famous disciple was Sammy Davis Junior, who later regretted experimenting with Satanism. Film star Jayne (sic) Mansfield was also a member of the Church of Satan, which has an estimated 5,000 members.
http://www.religion-cults.com/Occult...m/Satanism.htm

Here's a photo:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/..._mansfield.jpg
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