Five year old completely disregarding the rules - Page 2

[dharmamama]

Well, I discussed it with Efram.

I explained that we needed to come up with a solution that works for all of us: him, so that he doesn't feel angry about having to go out the back door; the dog, so that he stays safe; and me, so that I know that everything will be ok.

Efram's ideas: We could build a cage onto the front door so that if the dog gets out the door, he's trapped in a cage and will just come back in the house. Or, we could put a ladder at the front door so that when Efram wants to go out he could just climb up the ladder and the down the other side, but the dog can't do this since he is a dog.

I was getting really frustrated but trying not to show it. Efram was complaining about how long it takes to go out the back door and around the side of the house.

I said, "Well, what if you just climb out the window instead?"

He started laughing and said that wouldn't work. So I said, "Well, what will work then?" He said, "I could ask you to hold the dog when I go out." I said, "Ok, but what if you ask me and I can't help you right then?" He said, "I will wait for you or go out the back door."

I told him we could try that for three days and then talk about it.

Honestly, I am not holding my breath because, like I said, we started the "back door rule" because he WASN'T asking for help, even though we had talked about it.

So, we'll see.

dm

[Needle in the Hay]

I think that was a great conversation (and am at his first two ideas--what a thinker!). I'm really impressed by how it went.

The issue may not be resolved right away, but the back-door rule wasn't working either (even though I can definitely see that you made the rule to try to make things easier on everyone). At least this way it gives his mind some problem-solving practice.

I agree with sunnmama that, while way overused, reward charts can be helpful on occasion with getting into the habit of doing something. In your case, your DS going outside and in some way assuring the dog won't get out (not just that the dog happened to not get out). It could be worth suggesting to him if you are OK with the idea and see if he thinks it would help.

I asked my DS what he thought and his ideas were to build a fence around the front yard (where we live most yards, if they are fenced, are all the way fenced in, front and back yards) or that your DS let the dog out the back then go out the front door. I think he could really imagine himself in your DS' place. It didn't seem to occur to him that your DS should just go out the back door, like it or not, even though I had mentioned that you had a rule about it and that your DDs have no trouble with it.

[sugarmoon]

dharma,

This is *so* my 5 yr old ds!

No great solutions from me, just a "me too!"

[j924]

You will probably not see the humor but the ladder idea has kept me laughing through an expecially trying day. Keeping my fingers crossed for the three days.

[dharmamama]

Yesterday's count:

Times asked for help with the front door: 3

Times didn't ask for help with front door: 3

Times dog got out: 2

Times I was sitting on the couch right by the front door when he asked for help: 3

Times I was elsewhere in the house when he didn't ask for help: 3

Hmmm, I think I see a pattern.

This morning, he asked whether he could brush the bunny (Mishka, my love ). I said no, because she doesn't particularly enjoy being brushed but he was welcome to sit and pet her (which she LOVES).

I went upstairs to get dressed. I came down 3 minutes later to find him brushing the bunny.

To my credit, I didn't scream or jump up and down but I am sure steam was coming out of my ears.

Efram says he brushed her because "I wanted to."

Now, I actively teach my kids (or try at least) that it's not all about them want and that they need to consider how their actions will affect others, and I teach them things like, "I know you wanted to climb on me, but I asked you not to and it's my body," or "I know you wanted to put a dress on the cat, but the cat was struggling to get away and it's his body." I also realize that Efram, at 5, is a little young to really get this ...

but ...

I told him NO he could not brush the bunny!



dm

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

I went upstairs to get dressed. I came down 3 minutes later to find him brushing the bunny.

[snip]

Efram says he brushed her because "I wanted to."

Super frustrating, but I would expect as much from a 5 yo

When dd was 6, we went through a long struggle of DO NOT PICK UP THE BABY! when mom leaves the room. She wanted to pick up the baby. I gave her supervised opportunities to hold the baby, but that isn't what she wanted. SHe wanted to pick him up like a doll baby and carry him around. I wouldn't let her do that, so she did it when I wasn't looking.

The end result was that I could not leave them together unsupervised for a couple months. It was more work for me, for sure (have to pick up baby and bring him with me when I leave the room for even a moment), but it removed the irresistable temptation.

Can you hear him open the door when you aren't in the room?

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

So I said, "Well, what will work then?" He said, "I could ask you to hold the dog when I go out." I said, "Ok, but what if you ask me and I can't help you right then?" He said, "I will wait for you or go out the back door."

I told him we could try that for three days and then talk about it.

Honestly, I am not holding my breath because, like I said, we started the "back door rule" because he WASN'T asking for help, even though we had talked about it.

My first thought when I read this was that he didn't want to ask for help *going outside* but that he felt just fine asking you to hold the dog so he could get himself outside. Even though it seems like a small distinction to us, it could be a big one to a kid.

[j924]

Could he be going through a good kid phase? I know my oldest is a really easy kid. However through her life she has phases of just terrible behavior. She is the oldest of four and often gets the short end of the stick in regards to attention. I've read many posts about your other two but very few about Effram. Maybe he is looking for some attention.


I am by no means saying you are not giving him enough attention. Just thinking out loud.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by j924

I've read many posts about your other two but very few about Effram. Maybe he is looking for some attention.

Possibly, yes. I know that he seems to be going through an "it's not fair" phase right now where whatever he gets he deems inferior to what Ramona has gotten. For example, if I ask each kid what they want to drink with their lunch and Efram says A and Ramona says B, Efram gets very upset when he notices that Ramona has something different. It's not made easier by the fact that Ramona is in a "don't copy me!" phase and is trying to assert her independence from Efram.

Desta is at school all day but I homeschool E&R, snd I am really making an effort to make sure each kid gets their "own" activity, time with me, interest, play time, etc.

I think that Efram is struggling to find his place in the family right now. Officially he is the youngest but in reality he is probably the middle child, and I know he has been struggling with adoption issues recently.

dm