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Grr... your punishment just crushed MY kid! - Page 8

post #141 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by macca View Post
:

I had to double check which board I was on for a second there
omg seriously? Yes there are a zillion ways to deal with anything. Denying a birthday party for leaving home and refusing to come back, twice, is not the end of the world, and it is not necessarily un-GD. Let's not do the 'omgz is this babycentre????' coz really.

GD is not CL. GD can include parent imposed consequences.
post #142 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post

GD is not CL. GD can include parent imposed consequences.
Without weighing in on the original discussion, because I truly see both sides, I have to completely agree with this. I see *a lot* of equating GD with CL on this forum. I know there is overlap, but they are not the same.

I'm GD, not CL. I've liked learning about CL on this board and I've discovered that, actually, a lot of what we do could be considered CL. However, philosophically, I'm not CL. I think it's great that the CL folks share their perspectives and their techniques, but let's be careful not to bash those seeking help with GD for not being CL.
post #143 of 195
I don't subscribe to CL but I also don't do parent imposed consequences anymore...there is no box for me either.

eta...I don't CALL it CL..but maybe that's what I am doing. I don't like labels much. Just clarifying.
post #144 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post

I'm GD, not CL. I've liked learning about CL on this board and I've discovered that, actually, a lot of what we do could be considered CL. However, philosophically, I'm not CL.
Same here.

Quote:
I think it's great that the CL folks share their perspectives and their techniques, but let's be careful not to bash those seeking help with GD for not being CL.
ITA.
post #145 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by moondiapers View Post
Actually I change my mind. I think it IS a VERY natural consequence....mom not feeling like taking a child out that is hard to catch to bring home.
Absolutely.
I would have warned you though (I think), so that you could prepare your son. It must have been a shock to him to see his friends and expect his friend, but then his friend isn't 'there'
post #146 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post
Without weighing in on the original discussion, because I truly see both sides, I have to completely agree with this. I see *a lot* of equating GD with CL on this forum. I know there is overlap, but they are not the same.

I'm GD, not CL. I've liked learning about CL on this board and I've discovered that, actually, a lot of what we do could be considered CL. However, philosophically, I'm not CL. I think it's great that the CL folks share their perspectives and their techniques, but let's be careful not to bash those seeking help with GD for not being CL.


exactly
post #147 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
I'm fascinated that the suggestion that a cab be called is so attractive to people as a thing to get ALL CAPITAL LETTERS ABOUT. Hey, it was one idea.
Yes...a LUDICROUS idea

Evidently I am not the only one who thinks so.
post #148 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post
I think it's great that the CL folks share their perspectives and their techniques, but let's be careful not to bash those seeking help with GD for not being CL.
Yeah, I'm not CL either. I'm just me, drawing from lots of ideas in my relationships with my kids and my partner.

Let's see, no punishment parents have been called wishy washy, permissive and espousing ludicrous ideas.

A parent whose child was hurt by someone else's punishment posted for support and ideas. The pro-punishment folks posted lots and lots of posts about how reasonable it is and how life is full of disappointments and it doesn't matter if the punishment hurts innocent bystanders.

FTR: I didn't say a family whose toddler is going through car seat refusal is broken. I described the entire hypothetical as presented complete with no resources and said I had no ideas how to help.

I have a 7 year old with sensory issues and a very opinionated 3 year old. I didn't bash anyone. I've lived through lots of car seat problems with the younger one on hot days while the older one was having trouble. It's no picnic. I have lots of ideas to share in *real* situations that have and have not worked for me.

My point is that if someone is interested in painting a picture of a family with no resources and a 6 year old that runs away from his parents and a completely made up toddler who won't get in the car and a fear of cabs I don't have any ideas how to help.

I'm bowing out because I don't get the impression that my words are serving to help anyone, just fun to play with. I understand that the value my family places on commitment, joy and kindness are not universally shared. Other families prioritize different things and work through their conflicts differently.
post #149 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
I'm bowing out because I don't get the impression that my words are serving to help anyone, just fun to play with. I understand that the value my family places on commitment, joy and kindness are not universally shared. Other families prioritize different things and work through their conflicts differently.
That is pretty condescending, and a really underhanded way to deliver an insult IMO. Just because people don't all do things your way doesn't mean they do not value commitment, joy, and kindness.
post #150 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

That was part of my point. In THIS particular situation, my son placed a lot of value on his bf being there. More value than I think his parents realized. That combined with the questionable value of keeping him home from the party as a punishment, would lead me say that the parents should have considered the full impact of what they were doing. Not only on their son, but mine too. Unless you've got a true introvert who makes friends slowly because he's a bit delayed in his social skills (which bf's parents KNOW), you might not really "get it".
I've got an introvert without a lot of friends too. And, I get that it would be a big deal.

That said, I also think kids need to get to the point where they realize that even on their birthday they aren't the only person in the universe with needs. From the child's perspective he's sad his friend isn't there. That scenario would be just the same if the friend had the flu and sometimes people get sick and there is no one to blame. Part of life is that there will be disappointments and it is okay for kids to have some and to learn to deal. I agree it is sad for him and his feelings deserve to be acknowledged, but the reality is that we need to learn to do the best we can with situations and look for ways to still have fun. That would be my message to the kid. And, I should note I also post this as a parent of a child with medical difficulties - he does get sick sometimes and he does sometimes miss going to parties he wants to attend. That's sad enough for him without adding the burden that he's got to feel guilty for disappointing a friend. I appreciate the ways in which friends and their parents have been understanding of that.
post #151 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
Yeah, I'm not CL either. I'm just me, drawing from lots of ideas in my relationships with my kids and my partner.

Let's see, no punishment parents have been called wishy washy, permissive and espousing ludicrous ideas.

<snip>

I'm bowing out because I don't get the impression that my words are serving to help anyone, just fun to play with. I understand that the value my family places on commitment, joy and kindness are not universally shared. Other families prioritize different things and work through their conflicts differently.
well if you are referring to me, we are a no punishment family as well

and I said that sending a 6 yo alone with a random cabbie is ludicrous, not any parenting strategies

I am sure you are the only person on this thread that values these things
post #152 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
That is pretty condescending, and a really underhanded way to deliver an insult IMO. Just because people don't all do things your way doesn't mean they do not value commitment, joy, and kindness.
That's not what I said. Other people can value those things and have different priorities or other values that lead them to other decisions. I truly and genuinely do not understand what is being fun about taking my words and making them say other things than what I said.
post #153 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
well if you are referring to me, we are a no punishment family as well

and I said that sending a 6 yo alone with a random cabbie is ludicrous, not any parenting strategies

I am sure you are the only person on this thread that values these things
Which it was explained, by both myself *and* another poster was in response to a hypothetical and which I said was just one idea, which you needed to respond to with an insult.

I believe you that where you live it would be dangerous to send your child somewhere in a cab. It is not true where I live, nor is it true for my many many relatives who live in NYC. If it would be dangerous for your 6 year old (which if I'm reading your signature right would also be a hypothetical 6 year old) then it would not be an option that worked for you.
post #154 of 195
Just curious . . . how do kids who grow up in households with no punishments cope in an outside world full of them?
post #155 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Do some of you all really think it is somehow damaging and horrible to deny a child a birthday party as a consequence for taking off to the neighbours and refusing to come home, running away from your parents when they come for you, instigating an hour long drama... TWICE in a week? Does it really matter so much if the consequence is 'natural' or 'logical' or simply the parent saying: No way, dude, you don't pull that crap without fallout?

This is where 'GD' kinda gets off track for me. IMO there is NOTHING wrong with a parent refusing a b-day party after that, and it does not have to be simply about keeping a child safe in the moment... which some folks here seem to think makes it invalid or not gentle or somehow crushing to the child's delicate psyche.

I mean, back in the day there was a lot of parental punishment that was disrespectful, mean, and really out of line. But we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater here! Our children are not delicate flowers who can't handle a bit of actual parenting. I think some of us advocate going so far the other way, questioning always ourselves and not the kids (a la 'omg why would you chase him??'), and the kids just do whatever they please while we sit around psychoanalyzing and taking such pains to not damage the little sweeties that we render ourselves inert. Yk???

post #156 of 195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
I've got an introvert without a lot of friends too. And, I get that it would be a big deal.

That said, I also think kids need to get to the point where they realize that even on their birthday they aren't the only person in the universe with needs.
And I will say to my son's credit (more so than mine that he coped AMAZINGLY well. He cried a little bit, he got over it and had fun. I'm the one who's still stewing about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
And, I should note I also post this as a parent of a child with medical difficulties - he does get sick sometimes and he does sometimes miss going to parties he wants to attend. That's sad enough for him without adding the burden that he's got to feel guilty for disappointing a friend. I appreciate the ways in which friends and their parents have been understanding of that.
But that's very very different. That's a health concern. We would be disappointed, but understanding if a child was sick. There was no illness involved here. It was a parent-imposed consequence that ticked me off. I've moved on (not quite as fast as our son did, but I've come to terms with it.) Ds did learn a valuable lesson in having a good time. He handled the whole thing maturely.

I just wish his friend's parents had had the courtesy to warn us ahead of time, at minimum, and maybe rethought the punishment.
post #157 of 195
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
One child showed up at her party. I was so and upset for her. And I was so mad at the parents.

BUT she had a great time. She partied and had fun and played with us. We went out of our way to make sure she had as much fun as she could have with only one other child at the party.

I held that resentment for a long time and still am somewhat ticked at those parents. But my daughter is now nearly 14 and she doesn't even remember it. Kids are so resilient.
Thanks! That does help. I swear I worry more about his social life than I do mine. It just hurts so much to see him hurt. And to know that this hurt was "optional". I'm probably a little sensitive too because we'd had to cancel TWO playdates with his best friend because we were sick.
post #158 of 195
I think at the VERY least, the mother should have warned you. A no-show to a party is a no-show to a party at any age, and the host should be notified ASAP.
post #159 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

But that's very very different. That's a health concern. We would be disappointed, but understanding if a child was sick. There was no illness involved here. It was a parent-imposed consequence that ticked me off. I've moved on (not quite as fast as our son did, but I've come to terms with it.) Ds did learn a valuable lesson in having a good time. He handled the whole thing maturely.
I think having it be a big deal in a way that a sick kid wouldn't be is 100% a choice you are making. If your biggest concern is that your son's friend isn't there that's the same whether the friend is sick or being punished. The bottom line is the same - not every thing goes the way you always want it to and sometimes you have to learn to roll with it.
post #160 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post
I think it's great that the CL folks share their perspectives and their techniques, but let's be careful not to bash those seeking help with GD for not being CL.

Yes!!!
I think a lot of people get scared off that way.
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