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Grr... your punishment just crushed MY kid! - Page 4

post #61 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitmum View Post
Well, I didn't mean that putting locks on the doors was to be used as some sort of punishment, like if the parents said "Since you are such a bad boy we will put LOCKS ON THE DOORS to keep you locked up!" It might just be a thing one could choose to do for safety (or not, if it's illegal in some states as was mentioned above). Excactly the same way that I sometimes lock the door with the extra security lock to prevent my two-year-old from running out into the road. Nothing to do with discipline at all.

I don't even know whether putting locks on the doors would be necessary or the right thing for the family in question, I just meant that by definition locking the doors has a logical connection with children going out without leave, whereas stopping them from going to a party is completely unconnected.



I think they should just explain to him why he shouldn't run off like that. :
I'm undecided on the lock issue. Part of me really wants to put another deadbolt high up, the other part says "what if there is a fire and they need to get out..."

fire...playing in street...fire.....playing in street......hhhm.
post #62 of 195
I don't buy that this punishment was a logical consequence because it kept the child safe unless the mother also didn't take the kid with her to the grocery store, to the bank, etc. If it was just the birthday party but the child still left the house for other reasons, then it had nothing to do with keeping him safe. It was simply a punishment. And pretty unrelated.
post #63 of 195
I think that not going to the party was appropriate since it was the second time he did it in the same week. I assume, however, that things were not handled in an effective way the first time since it happened again so I see why OP would question their discipline techniques.

Running outside is extremely serious and should be treated as such. If that means using a punishment for those parents, so be it. It is always better than having the kid getting run over by a car or kidnapped or just going on to think that what he did was not that bad. If my DD would even so much as put one foot in the street or start running in the opposite direction, I would most certainly not drop the issue until I knew for sure that she either understood why she cant do that or that she was too scared to dare try that again. I live in the city so I might be more sensitive to that, but that is a very serious thing to me.

I dont know how much missing a birthday party is going to help achieve anything, but I completely understand that it is serious enough to warrant such extreme measures. She should have called in advance or have her son call (I like that idea a lot).

As for the OPs son, it is unfortunate for him, but that can also be a goos learning opportunity. I think he may learn from that that actions can have consequences on other people too, that you need to respect other people s decisions even if it is not what their parents would do and that we sometimes get very disappointed by things out of our control.

Finally, I think that anyone who sees another parent that seems to be struggling with appropriate discipline can offer advice as long as it is in a polite, non-confrontational way. If a parent cannot handle constructive, caring criticism, I dont know how they can effectively discipline their children.
post #64 of 195
I think that was a very reasonable punishment. I honestly think you're making this way more about you/your son than it needs to be. Life is full of disappointments.
post #65 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by moondiapers View Post
I
Child runs and hides from mom, laughing while doing so...
natural consequence: Mom doesn't feel up to taking child back to the same place because she lacks the energy and desire to chase child again....resulting in an imposed consequence of declining the next invitation.
We went through a period when DS was younger when his huge meltdowns anytime we had to leave meant that I stopped going some places with him, period.

Imposed consequence, yes. Necessary for the sanity of everyone in the family? Also yes.

Sure, every time he said "I want to go to the castle park," i could have said "Honey, the last time we went, it was time to go get Daddy from work and you pitched a fit and refused to come with me and I had to climb into the castle to get you, so if we go there you have to promise not to pitch a fit." and just gone..... in fact, we did that a few times. And it was setting everyone up for failure. And I was 8.5 months pregnant and could no longer squeeze into the play structure to retrieve him.

So we didn't go, even when he asked, and when he asked, the answer was "I don't want to chase you and have to carry you out of the park when you have a fit." So it was a punishment, in that sense, and it was imposed - but it made no sense whatsoever to keep banging our heads against that wall.
post #66 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
I really feel like some of the responses here are coming from the more wishy washy side of GD...
I'm probably one of the people you are referring to. There's not a thing in the world wishy washy about me. Not being defensive, just the facts.

I've often said it's a weak mom that feels a need to hit their kid. By the same token, it takes a strong mom who loves herself and her children to stand against bringing punishment into the home, focusing rather on building a relationship experience by experience as we grow together.

If my 6 year old went to a neighbor's house without telling me and then ran from me, taking away a birthday party wouldn't solve whatever caused that to happen. It would be a giant heads up to me that my attention was needed in an immediate way to figure out what had gone so horribly awry.
post #67 of 195
I haven't read any of the other replies, but I think the mother did the right thing. I have done the same thing, and will do the same thing in the future.

It would have been nice if she could have called and warned you tho. Although I did this once and then spent 5 mins on the phone justifying my decision while they insisted that it wasn't fair for my daughter not to attend a birthday party as a consequence of her actions. :
post #68 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
I'm probably one of the people you are referring to. There's not a thing in the world wishy washy about me. Not being defensive, just the facts.

I've often said it's a weak mom that feels a need to hit their kid. By the same token, it takes a strong mom who loves herself and her children to stand against bringing punishment into the home, focusing rather on building a relationship experience by experience as we grow together.

If my 6 year old went to a neighbor's house without telling me and then ran from me, taking away a birthday party wouldn't solve whatever caused that to happen. It would be a giant heads up to me that my attention was needed in an immediate way to figure out what had gone so horribly awry.
Well I don't know what you read in my post that suggested that I do anything different than what you just outlined.
ITA with it...

It just seems like this whole thing has been blown out of proportion...like she beat her kid, or grounded him for a month.

What she did, keeping him home from the party, might be less than ideal, sure. But it isn't child abuse, and I am sure that the kid will be alright. I think that what he did was a really big deal, very dangerous, and in most households it would have earned him a spanking.
I would have imposed a consequence of some sort, and I try to avoid that at all costs.

I just feel like a lot of pp's are glazing over the seriousness of his actions in this instance. Like it is no big deal what he did. I don;t think he needs to be punished, but he needs to understand that he can NEVER do that again.

I don't think that what the mom did was all that serious considering the circumstances.
It is not what I would have done personally, but it really isn't worth it to me to pass some sort of judgment on her based on such a little thing. Sheesh!

She isn't even the OP...I wonder how she feels about dozens of strangers grading her parenting practices/decisions on the internet?
post #69 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemom2 View Post
On another note, parents whose children run away from them. Well, DH and I call to our children before they get too far away that "we are going this way and we hope they come with us" (we've explained to our children that we will never ever leave them, but sometimes we need to go a different way and it would be really sucky if they went another way); most of the time this works. I almost never run after my children (unless they are in danger); I definately would not have chased my child for 30 minutes (I probably would have said, "Well, I'm going home now and going to bed. . .I'll probably lock the door so I hope you come too so you don't have to sleep outside).
.
tried it....he didn't care.....he was excited to stay with his friend...it encouraged him to hide and made the sit. worse. He really didn't want to go home, he was having fun. We NEEDED to get home, I had a daycare mom that would be there soon....depending on me to watch her kid so she could go to work....and I depend on the income to feed my children.
post #70 of 195
mamazee, thank you for offering such gentle solutions.

peace
post #71 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilalu View Post
..but it is definitely a consequence the mom is free to throw out...
i agree - except that it is a punishment that the mom is free to throw out. the words consequence and punishment are not synonymous...

peace
post #72 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
Do not confuse gentle discipline with never having a punishment.
i think that being non-punitive is a pillar of gentle discipline.

my take is this: do not confuse non-punitive with permissive.

peace
post #73 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
Do not confuse gentle discipline with never having a punishment.
:
post #74 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by kungfu_barbi View Post
i agree - except that it is a punishment that the mom is free to throw out. the words consequence and punishment are not synonymous...

peace
Well, I guess I must differ than a lot of GD moms here in that I think parental intervention in discipline is sometimes nessecary, and good. In my mind, safety issues take precedence and fall under a different category. There are only so many tricks in my bag and hardly any of them would work if the child wanted to do something risky and dangerous.
post #75 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by moondiapers View Post
yes, while he laughed at me, dodged inbetween other people's houses and behind them...all along a boat canal. I think my feelings after being disrespected like that ARE very natural...AND my natural feelings are valid. When he asked to go to that friends house next time, I didn't feel like dealing with that crap again, so I said "no"....I don't want to chase you. We'll try again another time.
Well I wasn't surprised that he let you chase him or that he laughed at you, but that you actually engaged in chasing him for 30 minutes. That just seems incredibly odd to me. I know better than to chase my dog, much less my kid. There's always a faster way to get them to come!

You could still have a discussion on the way home and he could still miss out on the next play date (if you feel that will be effective).
At least in your case it was the same place you were not going to visit again so soon and you did tell him you'd try again another time. There is some logic to it.

Your DS' friend can deal with him not coming over for a playdate right away because one: unlike a birthday party there hasn't been this big build-up to it and importance around it, and two: he witnessed the reason why you declined the playdate invitation.

OP, I feel really bad for your DS. I guess some people just think GD means no physical punishment because many responses on this thread are not at all GD as I understand it.

And yes you (general you) should be careful how much your punishments inconvenience (and in the OP's case, hurt) other people.
post #76 of 195
Do some of you all really think it is somehow damaging and horrible to deny a child a birthday party as a consequence for taking off to the neighbours and refusing to come home, running away from your parents when they come for you, instigating an hour long drama... TWICE in a week? Does it really matter so much if the consequence is 'natural' or 'logical' or simply the parent saying: No way, dude, you don't pull that crap without fallout?

This is where 'GD' kinda gets off track for me. IMO there is NOTHING wrong with a parent refusing a b-day party after that, and it does not have to be simply about keeping a child safe in the moment... which some folks here seem to think makes it invalid or not gentle or somehow crushing to the child's delicate psyche.

I mean, back in the day there was a lot of parental punishment that was disrespectful, mean, and really out of line. But we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater here! Our children are not delicate flowers who can't handle a bit of actual parenting. I think some of us advocate going so far the other way, questioning always ourselves and not the kids (a la 'omg why would you chase him??'), and the kids just do whatever they please while we sit around psychoanalyzing and taking such pains to not damage the little sweeties that we render ourselves inert. Yk???
post #77 of 195
I don't think it damages kids, but I think it can damage our relationship with our kids. If I had a bad few days and my mom took away something as important to a child as a birthday party, then next time I was having a rough time, I sure wouldn't tell my mom about it. Punishing the behavior instead of finding out what problem is causing the behavior just doesn't make sense to me. I appreciate that it can be done gently, but I don't think it's effective - effective at stopping the behavior, yes; but not effective at solving the problem behind the behavior or keeping communication open for solving future problems.
post #78 of 195
Well, there is having a rough time, and then there is taking off and refusing to come home. I think letting kids away with disrespectful things that negatively affect other family members damages relationships - I think it makes kids think they are the centre of the universe, especially when they pull drama and mama and daddy sit around questioning themselves ad nauseum and acting like the kid is made of glass. Yk?

I mean, I would want to find out what's going on that my kid took off twice in a week and wouldn't come home. For sure. But unless there was a seriously good reason, I would feel comfortable with removing a wanted privilege over it.
post #79 of 195
It sounded from the OP like the kid didn't know he shouldn't go to a friend's house after school without telling his parents. I did the exact same thing when I was in kindergarten so I'm certainly identifying with this kid. My mom grounded me and physically punished me. My impression is that the running away was probably as a result of him being punished for this first thing. So if the first issue had been handled better, maybe the other two issues (the two times he ran away) wouldn't have come up. I see this as a good example of how punishment makes things worse.

If my daughter didn't come home after school and I'd found out she was at a friend's house, I wouldn't hide my anger and fear, and she'd see that and I'd talk to her about why it scared me. But I wouldn't punish her.

I also don't understand why the parent whose house the boy in the OP was at didn't call the parents to find out why an unexpected kid was at their house. If a child showed up here unannounced, I'd think of it as my responsibility to make sure the parents knew where he/she was. I wouldn't consider it the responsibility of a little kid. That age is where kids are just learning that they aren't the center of the universe. By 7 or 8, kids know better how everything they do (not just hurting people but even just playing somewhere) effects those around them. At 6, they know if they hit someone or don't share it effects others, but they don't get that even seemingly good behavior (playing well with another child) can negatively effect others (mom doesn't know where you're playing well with another child). I see this as a developmental issue rather than a behavior issue. And potentially a good learning experience if handled well. Instead, though, the child is running away from his parents, and the situation is even worse.
post #80 of 195
I think you're adding details that aren't necessarily true. The first time maybe he didn't know any better, but then there is the refusing to come home for an hour. And by the second time, kid knew better. Was he punished the first time? Doesn't sound like it to me.

ITA that if a kindergarten age kid showed up at my house I would make sure the parents knew where s/he was.
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