Theories on root causes? - Page 3

[celestialdreamer]

Originally Posted by Spring Flower

I know what you are saying. If there is a list of MDC or AP sanctioned parenting practices or birth readiness, I basically did or do all them. Doula and midwife? Check. Still ended up with an emergency c-section. Selective vaxed and delayed vaxed? Check. No tv until after two? Check. Still ended up with a kid who has sensory issues, etc. Breastfeeding and extended breastfeeding and child led weaning and delayed solids? Still ended up with a kid with allergies. GD painstakingly researched and exhaustingly applied? Check. Still have a kid who has severe tantrums, throwing, etc.

Go figure.

I really hold the theory that certain genes (or gene mutations maybe) make one more predisposed to certain environmental factors.

I agree with you 100% (especially the part I bolded)

My ds who never had a drop of formula, a single vax, delayed solids, organic foods from the start...has *just* as many food allergies as my daughter that I did all the "wrong" things that I've had some people assume caused the allergies. I had a lot of guilt about my dd's food allergies until I did everything the way I thought I was supposed to with ds and he ended up with just as many sensitivities/allergies! Same really goes for the sensory part as well.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by celestialdreamer

I agree with you 100% (especially the part I bolded)

My ds who never had a drop of formula, a single vax, delayed solids, organic foods from the start...has *just* as many food allergies as my daughter that I did all the "wrong" things that I've had some people assume caused the allergies. I had a lot of guilt about my dd's food allergies until I did everything the way I thought I was supposed to with ds and he ended up with just as many sensitivities/allergies! Same really goes for the sensory part as well.

This is why I LOVE MDC. We can find others who do or did the same things we do and did and share our experiences.

[InstinctiveMom]

Just chiming in with my own exp and thoughts... my oldest (now 6) has SPD and I'd say the causes (or contributing factors, at the very least) were:
1) genetics
2) birth trauma
3) vaccine related (heavy metal poisoning)

Bear in mind that this is JUST my personal theory and has no validity outside of my own head, lol.

I think some people are predisposed to SPD. My husband and I both had as children and now have peculiar habits; some sensory issues that were outgrown and some that were intensified with age. We both also have some OCD tendencies - so from that perspective, I can plainly see where it comes from.

He also have a very traumatic birth and horrendous 24 hours. From presentation through pushing, he was born with the cord around his neck, his head was severely bruised from being forced against my pubic bone for so long, etc, etc...
So from that perspective, again, I can plainly see how he might have long-term issues that can be traced back to that experience.

The third is purely speculative on my part. I feel that my son's normal brain and body chemistry were altered by vaccines and I feel that that exposure played a part in the SPD.

[Jennifer Z]

In our case, I really think it is genetics. Now that I understand SPD, I can see it in myself (quite strongly actually), both of my Grandmas (although my maternal grandmother's issues more closely match mine), and have heard it goes back several more generations on my mom's side. My mom doesn't have as many sensory things going on (by comparison), but her siblings do. You can see it in a lot of the males too, but a lot of that is compensated for by the heavy work they do in farming.

It runs through dh's family in a lesser degree also. His side, in particular him, is where the language issues come from. He was a late speaker and used language in an unusual way growing up also. He also can recognize that he had a horrible time understanding social cues.

Our son has autism, and at first we thought it mostly came from dad (dh), but when you put the sensory things into the mix, it is clearly from both sides of the family. (and when you look deeper at both of our families, almost everybody is either an engineer (or related science...doctor, accountant) an artist, or a musician...all very visual spatial and crowding the line of the spectrum. Also a lot of OCD and anxiety issues, although not treated in most cases).

Our dd does not have any sort of a language delay that we can tell, but I am suspecting sensory issues with her. However, it is so much the norm in our family, it doesn't really cause problems because we just incorporate those needs into our lives so seamlessly.

And, in response to the birth trauma theories...we do fit into that too. I was 4lbs8oz, so was my dd, nobody has easy pregancies, and ds was an emergency c-section after going into distress and arrived with an apgar of 2. Dh also had a traumatic birth and his mom almost died (had an out of body experience) during his birth from bleeding out.

[Jennifer Z]

Originally Posted by Spring Flower

This is why I LOVE MDC. We can find other moms who do or did the same things we do and did and share our experiences.

I felt a lot of guilt for a while, too. I still do. I put so much into parenting and I try so hard to know as much as I can and do the best I can do that when things don't work out I wonder what is going on? This wasn't supposed to happen if I did X action. Still, I think every effort I put in is worth it and makes life that much better.

I'm glad you are feeling less of the guilt!

I think sometimes that the SN forum in general really makes a lot of people here uncomfortable. Everywhere else on MDC people insist that if you do ABC you will have *specific outcome* and then we come along and ruin it for them. Especially in the "vax/conventional food/birth interventions/cell phones/ect cause autism" because there are a number of people here that did everything "right" and yet there is still autism. Sort of kills the arguments.

Honestly, it isn't as easy to kill those arguements most other places because those are the mainstream ways of having kids...most kids with autism, just by pure cultural influence, have had most of those environmental conditions and it leads to a lot of speclation. This is one of the only places on the web I have seen multiple examples of none of those environmental influences, but with the same outcome.

I am glad this forum exists for this very reason. It is hard enough to be on such a different path, but if you can let go of the self blame, it is a little easier.

[savithny]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Z

In our case, I really think it is genetics. Now that I understand SPD, I can see it in myself (quite strongly actually), both of my Grandmas (although my maternal grandmother's issues more closely match mine), and have heard it goes back several more generations on my mom's side.

Me too. We haven't had any disagreements with our family over DS's sensory issues, mostly because as I've tried to explain what's going on with him, every time I say something like "Haircuts feel awful to him," one of his grandparents says "Oh, my, I remember feeling like that!" My maternal grandmother and her sister both cut the elastics on all their waistbands. My mother remembers having her hair done as torturous, my dad is a habitual mustache-twiddler and foot-bouncer, my FIL to this day can't deal with certain kinds of socks....

And DS was born in an uncomplicated, unmedicated (hospital) birth with minimal interventions, water labor, delayed cord cutting, immediate skin contact and nursing.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Z

And, in response to the birth trauma theories...nobody has easy pregancies, and ds was an emergency c-section after going into distress and arrived with an apgar of 2.

Sounds familar. It's good to connect with others who experienced similar scenarios.

[lunar forest]

Originally Posted by savithny

Me too. We haven't had any disagreements with our family over DS's sensory issues, mostly because as I've tried to explain what's going on with him, every time I say something like "Haircuts feel awful to him," one of his grandparents says "Oh, my, I remember feeling like that!" My maternal grandmother and her sister both cut the elastics on all their waistbands. My mother remembers having her hair done as torturous, my dad is a habitual mustache-twiddler and foot-bouncer, my FIL to this day can't deal with certain kinds of socks....

And DS was born in an uncomplicated, unmedicated (hospital) birth with minimal interventions, water labor, delayed cord cutting, immediate skin contact and nursing.

That's interesting how people react. I've had the same thing, except that the relatives are like "yeah felt that way but nothing's wrong with me. You worry too much." or "You should just except him for who he is. He's not Autistic, you know that." Umm, I do know that, that's what I'm trying to tell you; he's different and can use some help. It's not just my "bad parenting" that "makes" him act like this. You're right, he's not rain-man, brilliant you for noticing that - but why is your only concept of the word "Autistic" based on a movie from 20 years ago? :

Wow, that had nothing to do with the topic.... don't mind me. :

[That Is Nice]

I am glad this forum exists for this very reason. It is hard enough to be on such a different path, but if you can let go of the self blame, it is a little easier.

Me, too. This forum is incredibly helpful to me.

[naturals]

if any one of the senses are compromised then u can have spd. dd is visually impaired and has been displaying sensory needs more and more like spinning and nodding. she is also delayed and in early intervention. her balance, gait and gross motor are ok but slow and shaky and falls while standing sometimes. so yes vision is a big factor and all the therapists are using this as a explanation for all odd things she does

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Spring Flower

But...sometimes I do feel like the commonly "alternative" approaches to parenting found on MDC didn't hold up to their promise in my case. As I said earlier, I did a lot of alternative, thoughtful, fully researched things and still have a child with sensory issues. But I do truly think that if I stopped the attachment parenting, things would be much, much worse.

I just want add that it seems strange to me... We raise our children on a different path from 90-95% of the children in our society. Their emotional, mental, and physical environments are not typical. The truth is that this is an "Alternative" lifestyle website, celebrating the less walked path, so it would be unreasonable to assume that any member of this website (even the non-special needs portion of it) are "typical", becuse the kind of person who seeks out something that is unusual is often well - unusual...

so why would anyone who is AP-noVAX-lactivist-Intactavist-Cosleep-homebirth-wholefoodist be suprised or upset when our children do not fall under the label of "typical"?

My personal truth is that our A-typical parenting style affords my kids the chance to be who they would naturally be, and my "abnormally" close relationship with them (ap) affords me the skills I need to see who they truely are. We are fully aware that we could easily "punnish away" many of our children's issues. They are both so eager to please that we could force them to eat whatever, to tolerate noises they don't want to tolerate, to stop touching things they want to stim on; but we do not do that. The truth is if it was priority for our children to act more typical, we could work on that and it would just happen, maybe even without realizing it we could have done that from birth. But that is not the lifestyle we choose.

Many of my children's sensory issues could be classified as "heightened awareness" in some areas, and deficited awareness in others. But when we seek a more natural lifestyle it seems like these types of variations would make a tribe/family/pack/gaggle more likely to succeed. Society is built on specialization, and my daughter's (verifiable) super human hearing and over-anxious nature would make her the perfect "look-out", while my son's extremly adept short-term pattern recognition ability would make him an excellent gatherer, whereas nameless high-school jock #1 might have made an excellent hunter/protector.

If everybody's job/talents were the same, we would all be cows, grazing passivly on grass. But it isn't; we have brought our specializations together to become more than passive grazers. If everyone was the same, humans would die in one generation. Sensory issues are an important part of diversity, and although they are not always obvious, I believe they are necessary.

[lunar forest]

thanks for that, SD! I was trying to formulate a response encompassed my very strong feelings without sounding harsh or mean, or generalizing. You did so much better than any of my attempts.

[Kristine233]

Thanks ShaggyDaddy.

BTW, this is why I feel looking for a "cure" (or to change, recover, reverse) for our kids goes against the very basics of natural parenting or AP.

[lunar forest]

Originally Posted by Kristine233

Thanks ShaggyDaddy.

BTW, this is why I feel looking for a "cure" (or to change, recover, reverse) for our kids goes against the very basics of natural parenting or AP.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

I just want add that it seems strange to me... We raise our children on a different path from 90-95% of the children in our society. Their emotional, mental, and physical environments are not typical. The truth is that this is an "Alternative" lifestyle website, celebrating the less walked path, so it would be unreasonable to assume that any member of this website (even the non-special needs portion of it) are "typical", becuse the kind of person who seeks out something that is unusual is often well - unusual...

so why would anyone who is AP-noVAX-lactivist-Intactavist-Cosleep-homebirth-wholefoodist be suprised or upset when our children do not fall under the label of "typical"?

My personal truth is that our A-typical parenting style affords my kids the chance to be who they would naturally be, and my "abnormally" close relationship with them (ap) affords me the skills I need to see who they truely are. We are fully aware that we could easily "punnish away" many of our children's issues. They are both so eager to please that we could force them to eat whatever, to tolerate noises they don't want to tolerate, to stop touching things they want to stim on; but we do not do that. The truth is if it was priority for our children to act more typical, we could work on that and it would just happen, maybe even without realizing it we could have done that from birth. But that is not the lifestyle we choose.

Many of my children's sensory issues could be classified as "heightened awareness" in some areas, and deficited awareness in others. But when we seek a more natural lifestyle it seems like these types of variations would make a tribe/family/pack/gaggle more likely to succeed. Society is built on specialization, and my daughter's (verifiable) super human hearing and over-anxious nature would make her the perfect "look-out", while my son's extremly adept short-term pattern recognition ability would make him an excellent gatherer, whereas nameless high-school jock #1 might have made an excellent hunter/protector.

If everybody's job/talents were the same, we would all be cows, grazing passivly on grass. But it isn't; we have brought our specializations together to become more than passive grazers. If everyone was the same, humans would die in one generation. Sensory issues are an important part of diversity, and although they are not always obvious, I believe they are necessary.

What I meant, basically, was that all my energy and attempts to make gentle discipline, and a few other things, but GD mainly, have a noticeable difference have not resulted in much return on my investment in time, emotion, energy.

GD, to me, is a lot harder and requires so much more energy than conventional discipline. I see GD families where it works wonders...and I'm still very much struggling.

[That Is Nice]

Yes, I do see what you're saying.

[That Is Nice]

I do see what you're saying. I wanted to explain a little further what I was thinking and trying to get across. The best example I have is gentle discipline again. Most of the GD books I've read and implemented aren't quite equipped to deal with special needs.

[chantald]

Originally Posted by race_kelly

I think some children may be more prone to certain things and then environmental explosures can push over into symptoms showing up.

I have to say I feel this is true for MY SPD child.. I do think that he was wired to be predisposed to spd.. and that his birth trauma, early life trauma (NICU), Torticolis and toxic load ALL contributed to triggering his SPD.. would have this had none of those other things happened.. who knows.. perhaps but perhaps not.. I don't know...

[Mama_in_Maine]

Ok...I'll jump in...I know everyone has their own theories but I am in the genetics camp.
My daughter:
I ate whatever I wanted during pregnancy..had a medicated birth..got all shots except Flu, Chickenpox, second MMR and last DTap. She was breastfed until 14 months, AP, and I was a SAHM.
She was diagnosed with Classic Autism at 26 months. We knew from about 15 months and were ready for the diagnosis. I was sure it was SOMETHING I had done..everything I read told me so.
2 weeks after DD's diagnosis I found out I was PG with twins. I went completley GFCF, limited prenatals, no fish, had a natural labor and delivery, uncirc, breastfed, no vaxes, delayed solids, organic foods, no tylenol, still a SAHM, live in rural Maine, yada yada yada....
Baby B was diagnosed with Autism at 14 1/2 months and Baby A is heading towards a SPD diagnosis.
When I suspected Autism with my daughter I came across a list of symptoms. My husband was in denial for awhile and made the comment, "Maybe she just got all the symptoms from us..I mean we each have a couple of the symptoms from the list and maybe since we mated she just got it exaggerated." (lol)
My mother was in denial for awhile (heard of Crystal Children??lol) but the more she learned about Autism the more she started to see her family as well herself exhibiting alot of the symptoms and we are convinced my uncle has Aspergers. But especially now with the suspected SPD with my son, my husband has pointed out my many sensory issues (he has some too..denial is his middle name..lol) and my Mother would be the first to say she probably has the disorder herself.
I don't see anything wrong with a label when it comes to these conditions. These labels get my children services that help them feel comfy in an environment that is confusing to them. This is where my energy lies. In helping them navigate in a world that is not ready for differences, to love them for who they are and help them build their self esteem, to help them reach their full potential as members of society..however that may look as they enter adulthood.
I have learned alot about myself and my family once I accepted the genetics of it all.

[Kristine233]

Originally Posted by Spring Flower

Yes, I do see what you're saying. But I am not looking for a "cure" so much as treatment maybe? or help? or assistance? I'm not sure what the term is. And I looking for an explanation of sorts to help inform my choices and to allow us to receive certain services.

I'm not saying you said this, but AP and natural parenting to me, isn't just accepting a problem without finding answers. So, that is why I'm looking for answers. Maybe I didn't describe that well. I'll try to think about it and post again later.

the comments were not actually aimed at you. Just a general statement.

BTW, many parents here find the idea that Autism is a problem offensive. SPD being on the spectrum. Since we don't see autism spectrum
"disorders" as problems or things to fix, that is where the difference in approach is. We help our children like all parents help thier children, sn or not. It has nothing to with fixing anything, its helping our children be who they are regardless. And its helping THEM not helping whatever "problem" society thinks they have.