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I see SO many people looking for the same advice on hitting...  

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
And it just makes me wonder if there's a different approach to be taken with GD, so I've mentioned it in a couple of threads, but now I'll start a new one to talk about it.

"Teeth are not for biting," "Hands are not for hitting," "Use gentle touches," all that, to me, ignores the core of what GD means to me. To me, GD is recognizing that a child's emotions are as valid as my own -- they may not be socially acceptable or even excusable, but they're valid in the internal structure of the child's mind. To say "no, your impulse is wrong and bad" seems to me to be exactly the kind of thing I dislike about parents NOT using GD.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the action of biting. Many people bite carrots. Many people chew pencils or pens. There is nothing inherently wrong with the action of hitting. Many people hit drums, or tambourines, or punching bags. There is nothing inherently wrong with the action of kicking. We kick soccer balls, hacky sacks, cans. We do these things with POWER and vigor, things that "gentle touch" doesn't satisfy!

If you really had a terrible day and just wanted to punch your boss in the face because he said something really terrible to you, which would help more? Gently touching your boss, or throwing a couple of good punches at a punching bag? If you're really angry, or even if you're just PMSing and want to start a fight, which makes you feel better? Being sweet and kind, or expressing your frustration by making some noise banging a drum or singing or something else?

Also, remember: our closest relatives are chimpanzees. Chimpanzee society is full of siblings jockeying for position in the clan. Sometimes kids have a distinct URGE to fight, and denying that urge completely instead of redirecting it into a safe and socially acceptable form is as bad as telling a little boy it's wrong to play with dolls.

For me, GD is all about recognizing children's emotions and allowing them to express them healthily. But children are NOT always happy. Are you always happy? No? So why do we think it's okay to tell an angry child (as I saw suggested in another thread) to jump up and down and clap their hands? That's something we do when we're happy. Children are not dolls. They're not there to keep us amused, and they're supposed to sometimes be sad or angry just like we are. I think in many ways it hurts parents and teachers and caretakers when they can't redirect a child's anger into jubilant happiness, but the truth is, sometimes, you feel like fighting. How many of us have never even ONCE picked a fight with a significant other just because we were in a bad mood? Remember that when you next get frustrated by your child, and remember that what helps isn't being told to be gentle and sweet, it's getting your anger off your chest.
post #2 of 50
good point never thought that much into it but thanka, thats why i love reading all these posts, great insight
post #3 of 50
Thank you for that, I have always been so confused with the theory behind all of the advice. You're right, just because it may not be convenient for me, or easier to try to sweep it under the rug, my kids have as much right to be angry as I do, and as much right to express it. I guess instead of redirecting to a "happy" activity, it might be more productive to find healthy ways to release the anger.

Thanks for the insight, you gave me a little "aha!" moment .
post #4 of 50
Wow, very insightful post. Thanks! It does totally make sense, too. If I was really mad about something and hit something and someone told me to "touch gently" I would be pretty irritated.
post #5 of 50
ITA with what you are saying to an extent. I think that kids need to learn to touch gently, and it is our job to teach that (gentle touch) with a very young child (2 or 3) but not an older child. The older child already knows that and definitely needs a different kind of guidance at that point, and a chance to express how they are feeling.

I really like the "Cry for Connection" sticky...It was what first made me think about this issue.
post #6 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRationalCrunchy View Post
And it just makes me wonder if there's a different approach to be taken with GD, so I've mentioned it in a couple of threads, but now I'll start a new one to talk about it.

"Teeth are not for biting," "Hands are not for hitting," "Use gentle touches," all that, to me, ignores the core of what GD means to me. To me, GD is recognizing that a child's emotions are as valid as my own -- they may not be socially acceptable or even excusable, but they're valid in the internal structure of the child's mind. To say "no, your impulse is wrong and bad" seems to me to be exactly the kind of thing I dislike about parents NOT using GD.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the action of biting. Many people bite carrots. Many people chew pencils or pens. There is nothing inherently wrong with the action of hitting. Many people hit drums, or tambourines, or punching bags. There is nothing inherently wrong with the action of kicking. We kick soccer balls, hacky sacks, cans. We do these things with POWER and vigor, things that "gentle touch" doesn't satisfy!

If you really had a terrible day and just wanted to punch your boss in the face because he said something really terrible to you, which would help more? Gently touching your boss, or throwing a couple of good punches at a punching bag? If you're really angry, or even if you're just PMSing and want to start a fight, which makes you feel better? Being sweet and kind, or expressing your frustration by making some noise banging a drum or singing or something else?

Also, remember: our closest relatives are chimpanzees. Chimpanzee society is full of siblings jockeying for position in the clan. Sometimes kids have a distinct URGE to fight, and denying that urge completely instead of redirecting it into a safe and socially acceptable form is as bad as telling a little boy it's wrong to play with dolls.

For me, GD is all about recognizing children's emotions and allowing them to express them healthily. But children are NOT always happy. Are you always happy? No? So why do we think it's okay to tell an angry child (as I saw suggested in another thread) to jump up and down and clap their hands? That's something we do when we're happy. Children are not dolls. They're not there to keep us amused, and they're supposed to sometimes be sad or angry just like we are. I think in many ways it hurts parents and teachers and caretakers when they can't redirect a child's anger into jubilant happiness, but the truth is, sometimes, you feel like fighting. How many of us have never even ONCE picked a fight with a significant other just because we were in a bad mood? Remember that when you next get frustrated by your child, and remember that what helps isn't being told to be gentle and sweet, it's getting your anger off your chest.
You make a very valid point.
post #7 of 50
I LOVE your post! What wonderful insight and something I have thought a lot about. I don't have a problem with DS being angry or sad and I do need a physical outlet when I'm angry also. So how can I get DS to find a way that works for him, without me getting beat up in the process??

I get that his anger is ok, but hitting me hard with his hands or objects is NOT ok. I get that "gentle touch" is not the answer right now, but what is then?
post #8 of 50
I like this point of view so much, that it's going into my 'permanent' subscriptions folder for future reference. Your insight has put it into words for me why I couldn't quite understand the GD concept. This makes it easier to understand the child, and find appropriate solutions. Thank you.
post #9 of 50
i totally get what you're saying.

personally, i've been completely floored that there are parents who do time out or punish for tantrums. i haven't witnessed too much happy-ing up but it all seems wrong on many levels...

for me GD is mostly about parents learning how to be more empathetic engaged listeners and not trying to quick fix their kids. but is that it??? i've read the CFC sticky too and totally think it's right on. but then what? what is the next step?

my question then is beyond listening to him what tools can i give my child now so he isn't stuffing feelings and/or raging out when he is an adult? my babe is still a little 'un so were a ways off.

i don't think punching things instead of people is really all that helpful. and i don't think i will be suggesting that to my ds when he's 3. i just don't see how it really teaches anything for the future. i mean- if someone pissed me off in the workplace and i walked away from the interaction and punched a pillow they'd think i was nuts! but what are age appropriate actions that do sink in and help kids learn healthy socially acceptable ways to emote?

i like to think i've started our GD journey in babyhood with being engaged and with controlling situations, not ds, so he doesn't get frustrated, overly tired, hungry, etc.. and with learning more about myself and how to handle myself. but as he gets older-then what? how does one GD an angry child?? how does a parent teach a child it's ok to be angry but not ok to hit another person or by being destructive? it's a thought i've been having more and more with observing different parents with their older kids. i've already read a bunch of books from the GD book list but they get a bit heavy on the theory and not so much on the practical.

OP - i completely appreciate your observation. i hope i didn't derail your thread with this long winded post. i think it is an extrapolation of the same thought.
post #10 of 50
I am so glad that this post is here! i agree that it is so much more helpfull to help a child learn appropriete ways to deal with there emotions than showing them a more 'socially acceptable' way to act. when my son is hitting/spitting/kicking i try and show him what is okay to hit/kick/spit - such as you can hit the couch, you can kick the ball, you can spit in the sink or outside, and so on. I hope that i am teaching him safe and appropriette ways to deal with his emotions. i use the 'gentle' approach when he is trying to be gentle but not quite there yet, like when petting the cat or giving his baby brother a hug.
i subscribe to a daily email called 'the daily groove' by scott noele that (when i read it) helps me focus my day with real GD.
here is the link and i encourage all you mama's to take a look- some of the advice is great!
www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove
post #11 of 50
[QUOTE=stickywicket67;11100902]

i don't think punching things instead of people is really all that helpful. and i don't think i will be suggesting that to my ds when he's 3. i just don't see how it really teaches anything for the future. i mean- if someone pissed me off in the workplace and i walked away from the interaction and punched a pillow they'd think i was nuts! but what are age appropriate actions that do sink in and help kids learn healthy socially acceptable ways to emote?


i think that be observing their parents/caregivers that children will learn to express their emotions approprietly. when my husband and i get into an argument and the kids are around or hear us (which happens more than i would like) i hope that by seeing me get upset and scream into my pillow (ahem) that he is learning from me and seeing that when i am upset i don't hit but do yell sometimes and do clench my fists or stomp or yell into my pillow. i just think that giving him options of things to hit/kick at when he is so young that are around him is the beginning of him learning to cope with anger or unhappy emotions. i don't use the pillow example with him because that would involve me taking him out of the moment and i don't think a 2 or 3 year old is capable of that kind of thought yet...
post #12 of 50
Thank you for this post!

I am struggling with many parts of GD with my 3 yo - mainly because in the heat of the moment, I go back to "what I know", and that is not GD. I really love how you explored this idea, and really explained it in a way that my brain could understand! I think this may be the piece that I was missing!

post #13 of 50
OH I wish that my sons school would understand this. I totaly know where you are comming from and when my son has a tempertantrum and NEEDS to get it out - I direct him to a valid outlet, jump on the tampoline as hard as he can, yell at the wall/picture/great outdoors (we live in the middle of nowhere so this work) as loud as he can. Punch as an old sheet hanging on the cloths line. He has to get it out and the more you stiffle that anger or coddle it the worse it is next time. When he has a full out temper as home I can genereally have it over in 10 minutes and have him calm enough to talk too. At school they have spent the entire day trying to keep him "down" and I get a call at the end of the day (if not before) that he is being bad- hitting, kicking generally not doing as he is told.
If your where angry at that person before they asked you to do something - would you do it?
post #14 of 50
I like what I'm reading but I'm wondering....
I just finished reading "Emotional Intelligence" and just to play the other side a bit -- What is the long term goal we are trying to teach here?

Is it that all emotions are eqaually valuable and equally deserving of free and unfettered expression? Or that all feelings are natural and deserving of our attention to find a valid solution? Or that all feelings are real but we must find ways of expressing them that don't harm others? or something else.

The reason I wonder is because some of the suggestions for "getting the anger out" may in fact allow the child to "stew" in the feelings, which could set up the neural pathways in the brain to reinforce habits of angry feeling-->angry thoughts-->violent actions-->adrenaline rush etc. According to "Emotional Intelligence" and the studies sited in that book, that is a real danger. We are teaching these children how to respond to their emotions and the reactions they have are actually laying down foundations in their brain for how they will function later in life. So maybe "gentle touches" avoids the underlying issue that caused the anger. But maybe encouraging them to hit pillows or objects or be physical in an intense way doesn't help them to bring about a solution either.

Just a thought
post #15 of 50
I absolutely love this OP. I feel exactly the same way. Of course, I am a hitter, a thrower, a physical-release of my emotions sort of a woman. And I'm teaching my DD that it's okay to be like that. Both of us get a lot out of hurling rolls of toilet paper around the garage or screaming into a pillow or whathaveyou. Thanks for the thread.
post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRationalCrunchy View Post
Also, remember: our closest relatives are chimpanzees. Chimpanzee society is full of siblings jockeying for position in the clan.
Not quite. We're just as close to bonobos, who are gentle and egalitarian.
post #17 of 50
There are specific books about what you're talking about... Specifically what you're talking about it teaching children about Emotional Intelligence, something studied and written about relatively recently by Daniel Goleman.
post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRationalCrunchy View Post
"Teeth are not for biting," "Hands are not for hitting," "Use gentle touches," all that, to me, ignores the core of what GD means to me. To me, GD is recognizing that a child's emotions are as valid as my own -- they may not be socially acceptable or even excusable, but they're valid in the internal structure of the child's mind. To say "no, your impulse is wrong and bad" seems to me to be exactly the kind of thing I dislike about parents NOT using GD.
I was totally with you here. I'm not a fan of telling kids to use gentle touches when what they are REALLY trying to do is express something that simply can't be expressed through gentle touches.

But there are definitely ways to express anger, and ways to guide children to express anger, that don't involve allowing them to hit something when they are angry. I have honestly not ever that I remember wanted to hit someone to express my anger towards them. So if I'm angry at my boss- neither of the things you mentioned would help (punching something or touching him gently). What would help is complaining to someone who understands, maybe getting all riled up, perhaps saying "grrrrrrrr," fantisizing about telling my boss how I really feel about him, etc.

I think that redirecting angry hitting to hitting an inanimate object could sometimes be missing the point just as much as saying "gentle touches." It might not be helping the child understand that their impulses and feelings are perfectly legitimate, and it might not help them find better ways to express themselves. It might not help the child understand and embrace their feelings. If my ds seems angry, and goes to hit me, and I redirect him to hitting a pillow, it's still not giving him a way to tell me what's up. It's not giving him a way to express to me how he feels, and its not giving him a way to work with me to find a solution. And it might not even help him feel better about anything.

Quote:
For me, GD is all about recognizing children's emotions and allowing them to express them healthily. But children are NOT always happy. Are you always happy? No? So why do we think it's okay to tell an angry child (as I saw suggested in another thread) to jump up and down and clap their hands? That's something we do when we're happy.
I think that was me you are referring to. When my ds was younger, HE chose this way to express his anger. He wasn't an angry hitter at all- had never ever done angry hitting at that point. His jumping up and down and clapping (actually it was more like clasping his hands) did not look like a happy action at all- it most definitely conveyed how he was feeling at the time.
It seems that you read into that what you wanted to read. My post was about finding acceptable ways for kids to express their feelings. It was the opposite of "oh, just be nice and happy." It was "ok you're angry. There are better ways to express that anger than hitting me. Let's find one of those ways." It was finding some way for ds to express their anger that is agreeable to HIM and to me.
If a kid wants to do that through jumping up and down, why isn't that ok? You don't see that as angry enough? It could be anything- for me, it helps to say "grrrrr" for you it might be something else.
post #19 of 50
Thanks OP. I never got that you were trying to say we shouldn't try to teach (I hate that word - I'd rather "model") more appropriate behavior, just that expecting kids to *not* express strong emotions isn't necessarily a good way to go about discipline. I like how you pointed out that we shouldn't expect kids to switch gears from angry to happy because certainly we don't do that ourselves.

I'm having a hard time with this right now, actually. One of my dd's has taken to whining day and night. At first it's not so bad. And then I had to start thinking "What is it that is making her so upset?" I tried to fix those things, tried to change the environment, spent more time with her, and the whining continues. One night I was thinking, there *is* a point whenever her emotional expression encroaches on my need for emotional sanity! On one hand I feel bad for feeling that way because it is my job as a parent to help her deal with these emotions. On the other hand - aren't my feelings as important as hers? There's a line somewhere.
post #20 of 50
Quote:
ITA with what you are saying to an extent. I think that kids need to learn to touch gently, and it is our job to teach that (gentle touch) with a very young child (2 or 3) but not an older child. The older child already knows that and definitely needs a different kind of guidance at that point, and a chance to express how they are feeling.

I really like the "Cry for Connection" sticky...It was what first made me think about this issue.
:

This above post and also I think redirecting the strong emotions (anger or what have you) to a more appropriate receptor than whatever/whomever the child is hitting. I obviously don't want my child to hit, but I want them to express feelings, all feelings, including anger and to have an appropriate understanding of how to do that.
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