A new puppy...any tips?? - Page 4

[MammaB21]

This is all good. But, honestly, I'd rather have you a bit irritated with me for pointing out what you think is obvious (because you'd be surprised at how many people DON'T think it's obvious), than to have you come back in a month or five in a tizzy 'cause the cute little pup bit your child in the face. I'm sure you can understand that.

Don't worry, I wasn't irritated if it came off this way.

Honestly - it's not as "duh" as you'd think. When we got our first pup, my (now) ex brought our kids to the classes to 'watch". It was a pita. #2 (the now 14yo training the pup across the street) would be calling "Hi Mommy! Hi Penny! Look at the doggies!" throughout the class. It was very distracting - for me and everyone else. Halfway through, I asked him to take them home or out to the playground.

I'm not sure if you missunderstood me, but just to clarify, I meant 'DUH' as in, I am stupid for not have thinking of that. Like, "oh ya, duh, of course I can't bring my 2 year old with me, what was I thinking?"

Hah! I hit one good one!

seriously, I do appreciate everyones advice on here.

[MammaB21]

After reading some of these posts I am going to say something that I know won't be a populare view point. First off, I see all of the points that everyone has made on here. With that said........
I don't care if a dog is purebred. I don't care if he has the qualities that are seen most typically in his breed. I don't care if he looks like the breed should. I will not be using my dog for hunting, or working of any sort. I want a pet. A family memeber. A companion. A dog who will be trainable, loveable, good with my kid, non shedding, small for townhome living, smart, funny, and someone who we can love for many years to come. I think most people would fit into this catergory.

So if cross breeding is only okay when it is for a reason...then why isn't having a better family dog a good enough reason? Isn't that what most people own dogs for? Are these arguements the same for all animals, or just dogs? Because I dont' typically see cats who are 'purebread' or working animals, even though it is most deffinately in their nature to hunt?

I can understand the goal is to have healthy dogs. But there is way more to that then having a purebred with papers. And that has allready beed said. Like I said before, there are bigger fish to fry. There are SOOOO many puppies and dogs out there in puppy mills, being bred way too frequently, causing all sorts of health problems. They are being abused, not fed, or fed improperly. None of the dogs are socialized. The puppies are being left to face extreem conditions at very young ages. Then they are sold way too young, for a proffit. Whats my point??? While, I see how this 'cross breed' versus 'purebred' disscussion can get heated, I don't think the enemy is cross breeds. There will allways be people who will fight tooth and nail that purebreds are the best dogs, and vise virsa. I still haven't seen any evidance of either arguement on this thread, only personal experiences. If we are using personal experiences as validation here, I could go on and on about the people I know personaly and stories I've heard of WONDERFULL cross bred dogs.
Now to talk about irresponsible breeders. I have learned ALOT from all of you on the subject. In fact, a lady I saw at a get together yesterday inquired about my dog and where I got him. I told her a bit about his two breeds, and let her know that Shih Tzu typically arent' recomended for small children, and to jump on the web and do some research. If she still decided to get one, she could search for breeders, but I told her to check for papers, and health backgrounds. I actually told her I lost the number to my breeder because I wasnt sure (after this thread) if I was comfortable with that. I also plan on talking more indepth with the breeder. I felt good about that. I just wont ever be as damning as some of you have been. I don't think my breeder is 'the enemy'. My main goal at the moment, is to encourage others to adopt a dog, and to NOT NOT NOT buy from pet stores or any thing resembiling a puppy mill.

[mtiger]

I tried to stay out of the whole back-yard breeding part of the thread as it was straying towards off-topicality. But... I think the main point some were trying to make is that when "we" get dogs from folks who breed as a "hobby", "we" encourage a negative part of dog breeding and ownership.

I didn't see it as a slam against you, and I'm just as guilty. Pen was purchased from a hunter who bred his bitch for hunting stock, and sold the pups to pretty much anyone. Wasn't my choice, but it was done.

Moving forward, both of my other hounds were rescues. Blue, we adopted from BREW Beagles (shameless plug!) - I now volunteer for them doing home visits for folks wanting to adopt from my area. Jazzy, we adopted from a distant shelter after my kids' Dad relinquished him (after adopting from another shelter).

As much as I LOVE puppies, I would encourage anyone looking for a dog to look at breed rescues. Yes, it can take time for some breeds. (I can't say "popular" breeds, as beags are very popular, but are also commonly given up, so they're readily available. Labs are popular but tend to get scooped up quickly so are hard to find.)

[thekimballs]

I feel that I need to say it very clearly, though it HAS been said already:

There is nothing about purebreds that makes them better, nothing about mixed breeds that makes them better. The key is RESPONSIBLE BREEDING. If you health test, know your bloodlines, open your dogs to peer review, carefully place puppies, require a written contract with a mandatory puppy-back clause, I don't care if you're breeding Peke-a-Chon-a-Aussie-a-Poos.

My point has always been that I've never seen a SINGLE mixed-breed "family pet" breeder who does those things, whereas they are not only commonplace but considered *minimal* among good purebred breeders. But if you do find a cross-breeding breeder who passes those tests, you get my every blessing to buy a puppy from them.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by thekimballs

I feel that I need to say it very clearly, though it HAS been said already:

There is nothing about purebreds that makes them better, nothing about mixed breeds that makes them better. The key is RESPONSIBLE BREEDING. If you health test, know your bloodlines, open your dogs to peer review, carefully place puppies, require a written contract with a mandatory puppy-back clause, I don't care if you're breeding Peke-a-Chon-a-Aussie-a-Poos.

My point exactly. I don't think that this could be phrased more clearly.

The only other thing that I will add, is that people like your dog's breeder ARE the cause of all of the many problems that you mentioned. That is true whether they are crossing breeds or breeding purebred dogs.

My issue is not with mixed breeds. It is with irresponsible breeding.

[MammaB21]

I am not condoning irrisponsible breeders. And like I said, I thank you all for opening my eyes to sertain things I didn't know prier to this thread.

There has been alot of talk about mixed breeds spicifically. In this thread, and also in the 'what is a backyard breeder' thread. In that thread, my EXACT breed of dog was used as an example. If you go back to the beginings of this thread, you will see that most of this disscussion started out about the type of dog I got and that he was a cross breed. It was said that he would likely end up bitting, never be housetrained, that he will be hard to train, he will have a number of health problems likely resulting in thousands of dollars in vet bills in just the next year. There has been arguements about cross breeding in general, why it is wrong, and that it produces bad dogs. So if we want to talk about irrisponsible breeders, that is fine, lets do that. But I had to reference to the obvious disslike of cross breeds.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by mtiger

I

As much as I LOVE puppies, I would encourage anyone looking for a dog to look at breed rescues. Yes, it can take time for some breeds. (I can't say "popular" breeds, as beags are very popular, but are also commonly given up, so they're readily available. Labs are popular but tend to get scooped up quickly so are hard to find.)

I think shelters should swap dogs. Ours is full of labs. They never go. They can't give them away Someone mentioned the other day that theirs was full of huskies and malamutes which people scoop up instantly around here (and at a premium price to boot). i think everyone should figure out which areas are hot spots for certain breeds and shuffle them around.

[jlutgendorf]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I think shelters should swap dogs. Ours is full of labs. They never go. They can't give them away Someone mentioned the other day that theirs was full of huskies and malamutes which people scoop up instantly around here (and at a premium price to boot). i think everyone should figure out which areas are hot spots for certain breeds and shuffle them around.

OT, but some rescues do. sort of.

Here in GA we are OVERRUN with dogs. All kinds, big little, purebreeds, "designers" and Heinze 57s. Many rescues from the NE of the country will pull dogs from out local pounds and bring them up north to meet the demand.

The dogs that have the roughest time here are most labs and pits and retriever mixes. But we get chihuahuas, shih tzus (sp?), pekes, Maltese, corgis, mini poodles, etc. through here all. the. time.

~Julia

[thekimballs]

Originally Posted by MammaB21

I am not condoning irrisponsible breeders. And like I said, I thank you all for opening my eyes to sertain things I didn't know prier to this thread.

There has been alot of talk about mixed breeds spicifically. In this thread, and also in the 'what is a backyard breeder' thread. In that thread, my EXACT breed of dog was used as an example. If you go back to the beginings of this thread, you will see that most of this disscussion started out about the type of dog I got and that he was a cross breed. It was said that he would likely end up bitting, never be housetrained, that he will be hard to train, he will have a number of health problems likely resulting in thousands of dollars in vet bills in just the next year. There has been arguements about cross breeding in general, why it is wrong, and that it produces bad dogs. So if we want to talk about irrisponsible breeders, that is fine, lets do that. But I had to reference to the obvious disslike of cross breeds.

No--read it again. Your breeder told you, or some site like Dog Breed Info told you, that your puppy was going to have all these wonderful qualities, be a flawless little dog for your family. In fact, because we know certain things about Shih Tzus (purebred) and "teacup" (gag) Poodles (purebred), we can tell you that those qualities are NOT in fact all that likely to come to fruition. Shih Tzus don't housebreak easily. Shih Tzus are not great with kids. Shih Tzus are not easy to train. Toy/teacup Poodles have many, many health problems. Toy Poodles very much have a mind of their own. And so on.

The things we said to try to let you know what was a more realistic scenario than the one you had presented were because you were lied to, not because you bought a cross-bred dog.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I think shelters should swap dogs. Ours is full of labs. They never go. They can't give them away Someone mentioned the other day that theirs was full of huskies and malamutes which people scoop up instantly around here (and at a premium price to boot). i think everyone should figure out which areas are hot spots for certain breeds and shuffle them around.

My local shelter does this. We have mainly large dogs here in the mountains, and there are mostly smaller or medium dogs in Sacramento (per the shelter employee who explained this to me). So every week or two, they trade some big dogs for some small ones. Mixes things up, and gives everyone a better chance of adoption.

[mtiger]

This whole discussion reminded me of the Dalmatian we got from a (yes, responsible) breeder when I was a kid. Caesar was the best dog. Seriously. Loved him to pieces. I wish I'd listened to his cues wrt to my ex - he *hated* that man. He (Caesar) died a month before I married - I sometimes think it was of a broken heart.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by MammaB21

So if we want to talk about irresponsible breeders, that is fine, lets do that. But I had to reference to the obvious disslike of cross breeds.

If you are still maintaining the anyone here has a problem with mixed breed dogs, you are sorely mistaken. No one has problems with mixed breed dogs. In fact, Thekimballs, Skyastra, and myself all have mixed breeds! We love our dogs. You love your dog. That's the whole point, the breeders of these dogs prey off decisions based on emotion rather than rational thinking and responsible choices. As long as there are people rationalizing the creation of mixed breeds because of how wonderful they are, they will continue to be created. I love my mixed breed. I've posted about her several times in the past few weeks. She's getting old and I seriously wonder how I will function when she passes. But I do not for a second rationalize breeding another one like her.

Not a single person here has talked bad about your dog. I bet he's cute as all get out. We ALL love to gush over cute puppy pictures. But if you're looking for someone to tell you that your decision to get a puppy from a breeder who sells mixed breed dogs that are not health tested for a profit, you will be hard pressed to find it here. That's because we ARE talking about an irresponsible breeder. The person who bred your dog is irresponsible in the eyes of the Poodle Club of America, The American Shih Tzu Club, The American Kennel Club, The FCI, and thousands of veterinarians, breeders, and fanciers alike.

Poodle Club Of America

Breeding programs should exist for the betterment of the breed. Each member will plan their breeding program to maintain and intensify the virtues of type , quality, temperament, and eliminate faults. All breeding shall be done selectively towards this goal and not purely for financial gain. Breeders may not intentionally allow a poodle to be bred to any other breed of dog.

American Shih Tzu Club

I will not sell my puppies to pet shops or commercial pet mill establishments, nor will I donate puppies for raffles or auctions.

I will not crossbreed or advertise for sale puppies that have been crossbred.

I will not give stud service to unregistered bitches.

That's just to show a few..

[MammaB21]

But if you're looking for someone to tell you that your decision to get a puppy from a breeder who sells mixed breed dogs that are not health tested for a profit, you will be hard pressed to find it here.

No, actually, I wasn't looking for approval. I came on here to talk about training my dog. I didn't expect the reaction this thread got. I have said this mulitple times on this thread and I'll say it again. I WANTED to adopt a dog. I was DISSAPOINTED that I had to get one from a breeder.

I looked at mulitiple breeders. None stood out to be 'responsible' breeders. And there weren't but one or two that were close enough for me to drive to.

I am having a bad day, and this thread is starting to get to me.

I just don't know what point you guys are trying to prove. Every reasonable point has allready been acounted for and agreed with. I allready said I will take different precausions next time. This is by far the worst experience I have had on MDC, and to be honest it is really putting a sour taste in my mouth for this site.

[lilyka]

go get yourself some puppy kisses. . . you will feel better.