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UPDATE #42 "I work for CPS and if I heard of a 4 yr old nursing I would have them removed for... - Page 3  

post #41 of 59
5/2/08 at 10:35am
Do share your part of the email, even if she doesn't reply.

I do not like CPS.
post #42 of 59
5/2/08 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Ok she wrote back. I know I can't say exactly what she said but in summary she said that she wouldn't necessarily have a child removed just for breast feeding but if she came across a 7 yr old who was still bfing she would definitely go back to her supervisors and see what the law mandates for her state and her particular agency. She says she can come up with a lot of medical advice that say the negatives outweigh the positives

That's totally not true right? Are there medical things out there saying there are negatives to extended bfing? Or does she just mean she could easily contact doctors in the area or whatever and get them to agree with her? In which case, I'm sure she could given the sheer lack of expertise that most docs have in regards to bfing.
post #43 of 59
5/2/08 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelsi View Post
Ok she wrote back. I know I can't say exactly what she said but in summary she said that she wouldn't necessarily have a child removed just for breast feeding but if she came across a 7 yr old who was still bfing she would definitely go back to her supervisors and see what the law mandates for her state and her particular agency. She says she can come up with a lot of medical advice that say the negatives outweigh the positives

That's totally not true right? Are there medical things out there saying there are negatives to extended bfing? Or does she just mean she could easily contact doctors in the area or whatever and get them to agree with her? In which case, I'm sure she could given the sheer lack of expertise that most docs have in regards to bfing.
Looks like she is back-peddling. First we were talking about a 4 year old and now we are talking about a 7 year old.

She could find a medical expert to say a lot of things that are not correct. It is certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that a court would find that breastfeeding a 7 year old is abuse. I have seen court rulings effectively finding that breastfeeding a 4 year old is abusive. It is horrible, it is scary, and it happens.

OP, if this worker is not currently directing an investigation against you, I would quit this discussion while you are ahead. If you are being investigated, I strongly recommend getting legal advice. If you are in any way vulnerable to an investigation by this CPS agency, do not get into a fight you do not need to have. It exposes you to danger.

If you were having this debate with a health care provider, I would recommend that you smile, nod, agree, and find a new health care provider to avoid the risk of being reported to CPS by the health care provider. If you are in a position to educate or broaden the horizens of a CPS worker without putting yourself at any risk, great. But if you are at all vulnerable, don't risk it.

Just my thoughts from too many years of horrible cases and a recent run of T.V. experts broadening the definition of abuse to include my refusal to give my ten year old an iPod. These are scary times.
post #44 of 59
5/2/08 at 6:48pm
In situations like that, I acknowledge that it does seem a little unusual to us because we are not used to the idea that children can nurse past 6 months. But then I point out that this is a cultural difference between us and other countries like how different foods might seem really weird to us but would be normal in that place if that's what you wree used to.

This usually has the effect of opening a dialog, which I think is what you want to do, no?

The truth is, before I became the woman I am - the idea of BF a 4 yo was pretty weird to me.

My day care found out my 4 yo was still BF when she told them and my neighbor is a social worker for CPS. They are both mandatory reporters and I'm still here.
post #45 of 59
5/3/08 at 9:14am
No wonder mothers of nursing children stay in the closet.

I have also found that the mothers who get their children taken away from them for nursing "too long," tend to be poor, single, "alternative" or "hippies." They tend to stick out somehow in ways other than just being nursing moms to 4 year olds. They may have said something that offended someone in power, such as a doctor or a daycare provider. Those who are married, middle or upper class, and otherwise mainstream can nurse their children till they're in high school as far as CPS is concerned.
post #46 of 59
5/3/08 at 1:59pm
Thank ggod our CPT dr (Child Protection Team) didn't touch most anything with a 10 ft. pole. Youd' be hard pressed to find a dr. who would risk their neck, reputation and license to say "Yes, it is for sure abuse". Heck, we had some prety obvious abuse cases where the drs. said "Erm...MOst likley, but we're not going to say conclusively". I'd just ignore her, she's talking out of her well...yeah. Lets just say that she really couldn't back it up.
post #47 of 59
5/4/08 at 3:13pm
How about tell her, "Remember the news article about a boat full of adults, one mother and one child who survived days stranded in the ocean because everyone took turns drinking the mothers milk? And I think the child was 6".

I'm not really suggesting that you say this, because it would bring another arguement towards you, but maybe informing her about the power of breastmilk through this example, will help her understand (on one level) why someone would still be nursing after 1 year.

Personally, I nursed all my children until they self weaned at or around age 4 to 4 1/2. I tandem nursed my son and daughter (for a very short time), then my two daughters later for an extended time.

Good luck in making any sense. Laws will be more helpful in backing up your words.
post #48 of 59
5/4/08 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotsna View Post
How about tell her, "Remember the news article about a boat full of adults, one mother and one child who survived days stranded in the ocean because everyone took turns drinking the mothers milk? And I think the child was 6".
Do you have a link to this story? I've never heard about this one.

There was the mom who kept her 6 yo (I think?) and her baby alive for days while stranded in the forest in the snow in Oregon a couple of years ago, by nursing both of them.
post #49 of 59
5/4/08 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelsi View Post
Ok she wrote back. I know I can't say exactly what she said but in summary she said that she wouldn't necessarily have a child removed just for breast feeding but if she came across a 7 yr old who was still bfing she would definitely go back to her supervisors and see what the law mandates for her state and her particular agency. She says she can come up with a lot of medical advice that say the negatives outweigh the positives
"Really? Do you have citations? I can give you links to anthropological research showing that nursing continues until children are quite old in several cultures around the world, but I haven't seen any medical evidence either way. If you have access to a peer-reviewed study that shows that breastfeeding to age 7 is negative in some way, I'd be very interested to see it. "

Links to above mentioned anthropological research can be found at:
http://www.kathydettwyler.org/dettwyler.html
post #50 of 59
5/4/08 at 10:48pm
Thread Starter 
Well I am not going to change her mind that is clear. I do however find it very irritating that she can be so darn judgemental and yet in a conversation today she is complaining about how her dh always drinks and drives
post #51 of 59
5/5/08 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotsna View Post
How about tell her, "Remember the news article about a boat full of adults, one mother and one child who survived days stranded in the ocean because everyone took turns drinking the mothers milk? And I think the child was 6".

.
You've got the details mixed a little bit. The mother was nursing an infant, and the other adults told her unless she gave them milk too they would kill her. Under duress, she allowed the grown men to nurse on her. They survived, and she died of dehydration.

Not exactly a warming story.
post #52 of 59
5/5/08 at 3:34pm
http://www.breastfeeding.co.uk/index...37c2528827f597

I don't know if that will work but is that the same story? This one, I think, lived
post #53 of 59
5/5/08 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandynee22 View Post
http://www.breastfeeding.co.uk/index...37c2528827f597

I don't know if that will work but is that the same story? This one, I think, lived
That is an awesome story.

(hmm, not to mention excellent proof that when possible, supply meets demand. I bet her body was like "OMG, I just had quadruplets and no one told me! Must produce more milk!")
post #54 of 59
5/5/08 at 5:15pm
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/116/3/e432

Quote:
We must point out that, at the present time, the official policy of the American Academy of Pediatrics is not to put any limit on the duration of lactation.1 Moreover, a recent review of biological versus cultural aspects of weaning suggested that, from an anthropologic standpoint based on primates studies, "breastfeeding a child for 2.5 to 7 years is normal for our species."32
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ers/116/3/e432

hth
post #55 of 59
5/5/08 at 11:37pm
Hey Rachael, it's Mel. You know, you can't worry about people like that. I have come to realize that my views on things are very different than a lot of others. Their opinions are theirs and mine are mine and that's just the way the world turns. I realize when someone starts tossing out calling CPS it can get heated quickly, but thankfully, this isn't a person you have to deal with in real life.
post #56 of 59
5/6/08 at 1:02pm
"I work for CPS and if I heard of a 4 yr old nursing I would have them removed for sexual abuse"

"Well, you wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on and most likely would lose your job as a result. At least you would deserve to, and for my part I would do everything in my power to see that's what happened."

But I tend to say exactly what's on my mind when confronted like that.
post #57 of 59
5/6/08 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tex.mom View Post
"Well, you wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on and most likely would lose your job as a result. At least you would deserve to, and for my part I would do everything in my power to see that's what happened."
post #58 of 59
5/6/08 at 3:19pm
Quote:
The problem is that it seems everyone basically says, "yeah that makes sense in 3rd world country where there's disease, lack of good water, sometimes lack of good food, etc but there's no need for a child that age to still be nursing in America where they can have regular table food."
My response to this, online only so far, is a general "racist much?" followed by the question how our BIOLOGY is any different from the BIOLOGY of the people living in so-called "third world" countries. Because since our biology is exactly the same, what is good for their children is also good for ours. Why should ours be denied?

I like your concept WNB!

Back when DS was still nursing, and sometimes would ask while we were at the ambulance base, I heard from a friend of one employee badmouthing us, calling it abuse, saying I should only do that at home. I told my friend that if he really thought it was abuse, why was it okay at home but not there? If it was abuse, it would abuse at either location, and if it was abuse, why did he not make the call?

Not to say I'm not glad that he lacked the cojones to do so, but if he really thought that, and as a paramedic was a mandated reporter, he broke the law by not calling. My friend had already told him that it was a nonissue, but I'd already educated her. Maybe he didn't call because she was also his boss.
post #59 of 59
5/6/08 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Well I am not going to change her mind that is clear. I do however find it very irritating that she can be so darn judgemental and yet in a conversation today she is complaining about how her dh always drinks and drives
Hypocrit much??? Seriously, how many hundreds, or is it thousands, of people are killing annually by drunk drivers, and how many nursing children by nursing???

She has some seriously bass ackards priorities there.
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Mothering › Forums › Breastfeeding › Lactivism › UPDATE #42 "I work for CPS and if I heard of a 4 yr old nursing I would have them removed for sexual abuse"