or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Single Parenting › Voluntarily giving up custody?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Voluntarily giving up custody? - Page 4

post #61 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
I don't think we should adopt lower parenting standards for women just because men are often lousy at it, and we have come not to expect much out of them.
Here, here.

Good God, if many of the single moms I know lowered their standards to those of their children's fathers, those kids would be in a sad way...
post #62 of 153
Oh well in that case let's just keep excusing men and ganging up on women.
post #63 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadeshaman View Post
Uh, don't a lot of men forget this, too? And they don't get dumped on like women do. I think that's where CJ is coming from.
What if this were a dad posting that his new wife had a post in Alaska, and he wanted to teach up there, so he was considering surrendering custody of his kid to his ex? Would people come down on him half as hard?
OK, yeah I can see what you're saying. Although if that's the case, I'm not sure why she chose to post it here, because reina is a woman and she was asking the question for herself. What people think of men who do the same thing is really irrelevant. And I certainly hope that people would think any man who moves away from his kids is making a terrible choice. I can't think of anyone I know in real life who would condone it. I'm sure there are people out there who think that way, but I'm from a very family-oriented area and haven't come across many.
post #64 of 153
well, i, for one, would tell a father the exact same thing as i did this mother: don't do it.

i don't care if you're a man or a woman, when you are a parent to a child, your number one responsibility is to them.

for pete's sake, this community supports ATTACHMENT PARENTING. how on earth is that compatible with giving up custody of your 5 year old so you can move to a cool new locale with your new man- or woman?
post #65 of 153
I don't support a parent moving away from their child. But this thread and the other one I saw remind me that there is definitely one standard for men and another, much meaner more vicious standard, reserved for women. And I think that sucks for everyone.
post #66 of 153
I think thismama is doing nothing more than diverting this discussion in an entirely different direction that has nothing to do with the discussion.

Don't do it.

If you have a gender reassignment surgery first, I will not cut you anymore slack than if you keep your vagina and decide to do it then.

I understand the urge to wander. With the children I've created and love with me.
post #67 of 153
Of course there is a double standard. But how does bringing up "men do it too!" help the OP or her child?

OP: Don't do it. Your child's needs need to come first.
post #68 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjuniverse View Post
OP, you are getting a lot of very undeserved heat for this not because what you are considering is bad, but because it is so unthinkable to so many here because of deeply ingrained societal norms about female behavior and 'mothering'. I am shaking with anger and sadness at the prejudice and bigotry, the hate and intolerance behind some of these comments. Shaking. You are being shamed and humiliated for no other reason than people's inability to think beyond the parameters of what they've been taught. Inability or refusal...I can't decide which is worse!

See, we can never do enough as woman period, let alone as mothers. Give enough. Be enough. Be good enough. I know you all know this. We all do. We all feel it. We all suffer it. Worse, we all perpetuate it, on ourselves and on each other. It's become a sort of cathartic thing we do to make ourselves feel better about our lot. You're encountering jealousy and resentment on the part of those who may have had similar thoughts, but were discouraged away from them by themselves/others. We are never good enough parents, friends, lovers, whatever. Because we are women. Women are less, and therefore never good enough. You can see it some of these responses...the giving up of all hopes and dreams, the relinquishing of all desires not related to giving endlessly, to sacrificing endlessly for children and everyone around us. The guilt and shame associated with doing for yourself as a female. There are reasons for this...and they do not serve women, trust me. The deep-seated hatred of self as female, and identifying with the larger culture that tells us that once we have children, our lives as autonomous people end (indeed, if they ever began...women are defined in relation to others from birth)...forever. No matter how old they get, no matter where they go...our children come first. Period. No matter what we have to give up, how important it is to us, how vital it is to our well-being and sanity...once we reproduce, tough. We don't matter. What we want doesn't matter. What we need doesn't matter. Only our children (lovers, husbands, friends, whoever) matter. This cannot and does not send a healthy or fair message to children or anyone. It is not a good example or precedent to set. It continues the cycle of sacrifice, dependency, and patriarchy, really. As long as we put others before ourselves, we will never be strong or united enough to do for ourselves. Simple and scary, and very effective thus far in history!

Thismama hit the nail on the head. Few people would come down on a man for moving away from a child for work (or for anything we crap on mothers for doing...just showing up gets men kudos most of the time). Because men are men and their desires and needs and personhood are give space and respect. Not so for women. Our relationships (especially to children) come first to the exclusion of all else, always. We have no right to put ourselves first, ever, but especially in regards to children. Constant, unrelenting, martyring sacrifice always. Self-fulfillment? Never, or fragmented or extremely rarely. Some may pay lip-service to holding men to the same (impossible, inhuman) standard as women, but in reality all the hate and hurt is heaped on our heads no matter what. Never gives enough. Never good enough. Bad woman. Bad mother. Bad person.

You're catching heat for even suggesting this because most women have bought the line wholeheartedly that they are nothing without their lovers and children and friends. We can't survive on our own, and we certainly shouldn't want to do anything on our own, or do something for just ourselves, especially as mothers. Motherhood is supposed to be the be all and end all of our existence, the only thing we value, the only thing that matters. Abandoning that is the ultimate transgression as a woman. We never put ourselves first, and if we do, we prepare to be torn apart by everyone around us for not toeing the line...we prepare to be called selfish, heartless, evil, horrible, mindless, careless, reckless. We prepare to lose all the respect and love of our friends and allies (or at least, those who we thought were friends and allies). We prepare for the most cruel of insults and actions. We prepare to be told we don't really love and care for our children. We prepare to be ostracized and turned into pariahs for acting like human beings instead of all-giving, all-sacrificing mental, emotional, and physical atm machines...always ready to give to and reward others, never allowed to do so for ourselves. No matter what. With a smile on our faces.

That said, I think you should take a closer look at your own particular situation and be sure your son's father can and is willing and would do well to be your son's sole caretaker for a long period of time. Talk to your son as well. Be sure he understands the situation and how it would be as much as he can. Excitement about new possibility is not wrong, but can sometimes cloud our judgment about what's right.

Believe me, I understand the need to explore. To try new things. To wander. You are not wrong for having these urges, or for considering an alternative custody arrangement due to them. You are not wrong at all. You are human. You have every right to dream, and have goals and aspirations that do *not* center around others. I will even go so far as to say you have every right to be selfish, as all humans do. Certain types of selfishness are healthy, and keep us focused on the things we want that are good for us that others, due to influence from a society that tells us we are not allowed to have the things we actually want, but only what others want for us/expect from us, would deny us out of habit, convention, and pure hatred.

Your son is a child. He is not stupid. He is not made of glass. Human beings are not fragile and eternally vulnerable to every twist of fate. We have survived as long as we have as a species due to our ability to adapt to adversity and change. He will not fall apart if you leave, your relationship will not disappear/be destroyed. There is no one right way to live, or to parent, or to be. You know your son, your ex, and yourself. You know what the right decision for all of you is. You do not need to ask permission of anyone, but only do what you know is right in your situation. Whatever that is, mami, whatever that is, it's up to you and your family. Talk it out, think it out, then do what you feel is best. Let no one deter you from that. Let no one shame you for that. Live your live as YOU see fit, not as others see it. They don't have to walk in your shoes or suffer the consequences or bask in the benefits of your decisions. You do. Therefore, it's all on you.

Love does not equal sacrifice. Sacrifice does not equal love. Love can be a component of sacrifice and vice versa. But they are not the same.

Parents do not have to live with their children to be good parents. A good parent is loving, attentive, understanding, gentle, supportive, and kind. A good parent shows their children how to be strong, how to adapt, how to make the most of life. A good parent does not stop being human, stop being an individual because they have children. They teach their children balance by being good parents and good people who have their own lives, interests, will, and desires.

I think it is important that, as women and parents of sons especially, we hold on to our agency and teach our sons that women are not functions of other's needs, that we have the right to put ourselves first and to love ourselves and do for ourselves. If we teach them that women can be, are, and should be independent thinkers with lives of their own, they will not expect women to be doormats who live for everyone else but themselves. We teach them to love themselves (and most importantly, women) as we have loved ourselves.

Support and love for you and yours in this corner, mami!
Wow, do I disagree. What does any of this have to do with the op's situation? And what in the world does a father moving away from his child have to do with this?
The op is the one who, just 2 months ago received sole custody of the child we are speaking about because her ex had the child in the car while he was drunk...2 months ago.

Fathers moving away from their kids are the crap, the same as with mothers. The child has apparently always lived in the same home with his mother, so it is a big deal. It will damage her relationship with him, and though children are resilient, her decision to move away because "she has always wanted to live in Alaska...to teach in the bush...we won't have anytime to take care of him..." is sad to say the least. As parents it is irresponsible to have kids with the prerequisite thought, "I'll take care of said child, as long as he doesn't get in the way of what I want to do".
post #69 of 153
I'm not quite understanding how you don't have enough time for your son anymore? At what point did that happen? How does that happen?

I am truly wondering...

Alaska or no Alaska, new husband or no new husband...this little boy needs his momma. And I think every adult involved could benefit from some good child psychology classes and/or therapy.
post #70 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahGuinn View Post
I think thismama is doing nothing more than diverting this discussion in an entirely different direction that has nothing to do with the discussion.
Uhhh... thismama has expressed her opinion and is merely pointing out that there are pages of attacking this mother that men do not get. Hardly unrelated to the discussion.

Quote:
I understand the urge to wander. With the children I've created and love with me.
Which you cannot do if there is a custody agreement and another parent who has access.
post #71 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I don't support a parent moving away from their child. But this thread and the other one I saw remind me that there is definitely one standard for men and another, much meaner more vicious standard, reserved for women. And I think that sucks for everyone.
Not meaner. Just a higher standard.

Argue for holding men accountable for parenting. Don't argue for excusing women from basic accountability.
post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
Not meaner. Just a higher standard.

Argue for holding men accountable for parenting. Don't argue for excusing women from basic accountability.
And I am arguing for excusing women exactly where? Nowhere. I am saying there is a double standard and that it sucks, and we should remember that as we gang up on the OP for her question. That's it.

It's pretty hilarious because here I'm getting told I'm 'excusing women from basic accountability' for pointing this out, and when I argue for holding men to higher standards I get told I'm bitter. Hmmm. It's kinda no win when you try to point out the inconsistency... you get shot down either way and onward it goes.
post #73 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyPrincess View Post
I'm not quite understanding how you don't have enough time for your son anymore? At what point did that happen? How does that happen?

I am truly wondering...

Alaska or no Alaska, new husband or no new husband...this little boy needs his momma. And I think every adult involved could benefit from some good child psychology classes and/or therapy.
:
post #74 of 153
I don't think the right thing is to stop trying to veer this mama off from leaving her child. I think the right thing is to attack wayward men with equal fervor.

And yes, there is a double standard. Here and in too many scenarios to detail.

ETA: I see your edit. We're almost double posting . I think you're taking the hit for everyone not coming down on the OP, even though your views are moderate.
post #75 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I am saying there is a double standard and that it sucks, and we should remember that as we gang up on the OP for her question. That's it.
Why should we remember that? This isn't a thread started about the double standards between men, women and taking care of their children. So, the op should receive better treatment and less honest opinions and advice because some people have a double standard?
post #76 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
I don't think the right thing is to stop trying to veer this mama off from leaving her child. I think the right thing is to attack wayward men with equal fervor.

And yes, there is a double standard. Here and in too many scenarios to detail.
I don't think attacking anyone is the 'right thing.' And I don't think it will get us anywhere. I also think it's one thing to say we would say the same things to a man, and it's another thing to actually do it. This thread has inspired many people who have nothing to do with this forum to venture in here to tell this mama 'oh noes!' And I agree with the 'oh noes,' for sure. But I don't see the same thing re: men who do this. A lot of us marry them, in fact.

That is all I'm saying.
post #77 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post

ETA: I see your edit. We're almost double posting . I think you're taking the hit for everyone not coming down on the OP, even though your views are moderate.
Yes major crosspostage.
post #78 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I don't support a parent moving away from their child. But this thread and the other one I saw remind me that there is definitely one standard for men and another, much meaner more vicious standard, reserved for women. And I think that sucks for everyone.
I disagree. There is a standard of appropriate parenting. You can't control how your exdh parents, but you have control over how you parent.

You know the ex is irresponsible and there is NO WAY I would trust my child to be safe and nurtured by an alcoholic, recovering or not, who is just 2 months from a DUI with my child in the car, no matter how much easier it would make my life. You can't change the fact he is irresponsible and has no business being around a child at this point in his life without some serious supervision. It is inconvient, but that is life and that is the choice you made over 6 years ago.

The fact you are even considering abandoning your child to have ZERO responsible parents present in his life is really heartbreaking. It really looks like you are choosing your new guy and this fantasy life over your son. He won't get over it. This is the kind of thing that he might be able to forgive when he gets older, but it will leave scars.

There is no way I would feel differently if the gender roles are reversed. I can't even begin to fathom how anybody would think it would be ok for a dad to do the same thing, and I think the dad in this situation is about the worst kind of parent too. I don't have much respect for a new husband that failed to take into account the child's well being when he married his mom either. I definatly wouldn't be having kids with somebody who has so little respect for children.
post #79 of 153
Perfectly said, Jennifer Z. My brain thought that, but I am afraid I am a babble poster.
post #80 of 153
wow I can hardly believe you are thinking about this. Just from what you wrote it seems so self serving. it sounds like you just want to forget your first marriage existed and move on with a new and exciting life.

I live far away from family support. in a city I am not so fond of. with no job opportunities. heck I am still with my husband (long story, I am on this forum because single motherhood is always just a breath away, but I am scared to even be living down the block from where my children will be spending every other freaking weekend) and i likely always will live here. why? because this is where their father is and I feel I have no right to live far away from them or to put distance between them and their father (or the rest of his family which they love dearly- as do I) and I am certainly not going to risk loosing them over a change in scenery. no job no man no nothing is worth it. 10 years. i can live here and put the rest of my life on hold for 10-12 years (my youngest is five). And if I ever do get remarried I would never even consider a man who had left his children behind for any reason or who couldn't stay put here where i am tethered. He would know up front that I could not move away. period. just because my children's father and I screwed it all up every which way doesn't mean they should have to suffer any more than necessary. when I had them I gave up my freedom to roam alone. if he wants to run off and leave for some girl or some dream job it wouldn't surprise me but i would never be the one to inflict that on them. My dad did it to me and don't tease yourself. you might not forget about him but to him you will be a side item. Alaska is a long ways away. calling every week is nothing. giving up school holidays to travel far away from his life becomes a burden that causes resentment. and he will always know that you left him.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Single Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Single Parenting › Voluntarily giving up custody?