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My OB was suspended---need help! Advise!! - Page 2

post #21 of 37
ok, that makes sense. i was curious about how the "vaccine" actually worked, since vaccines typically help the body create antibodies without actually going through the whole illness.

but if it, instead, simply kills the rh+ cells that have come into the body, such that hte body cannot make antibodies, and it's those antibodies that are the problem. . .then it makes sense.

and the subsequent pregnancies, then, makes some sense. i'm curious about the issue of contamination in there--how the mother's antibodies cross the barrier (when their isn't trauma, etc) in subsequent pregnancies, or how that works.

of course, this is all theorhetical--as we're both rh+ so for us it isn't specific (good ole intuition).

but i do see how it is specific to that 15% or so of the population that is rh- particularly if you're talking about first vs subsequent births AND you're looking at issues such as did this person have a miscarriage before and what is the situation of this birth and so on.

all of that is really valuable.

and, to get back to the topic, our family doctor said he would be willing to write the script. so that's an option.
post #22 of 37
Somewhere I read, and I don't have a source just what is in my head, that a lot of Rh incompatibilities began when drs began "managing" third stages of labor by early cord clamping. Making the mixing of blood much more prevelant.

Not that there was never any problems with it before hand, but that that was a big factor in it now. And it makes sense, too.
post #23 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

she said that it was necessary. i asked her why, and she brought up a bunch of bogus stuff like "because that's what is done." so, i said "what about before those things were done? did women and babies die from rhogram incompatiability or something? do you know?"

.
Um, yes. That's exactly what happened. The babies died.
post #24 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

of course, this is all theorhetical--as we're both rh+ so for us it isn't specific (good ole intuition).

.
You've intuited your baby's blood type? Fascinating.
post #25 of 37
Can this thread get back to the OP now?

She did have a question.
post #26 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
I was under the impression that as long as you have an uncomplicated pregnancy and birth (and this usually means homebirth, as hospital births are rarely uncomplicated), the likelihood of sensitization was fairly low.

that is my understanding from what i am reading now--from a variety of google sources.

here is what i do not understand:

1. assuming that everything is normal and healthy, why is the mother innoculated after the birth? what is the illness that will befall her if she is not innoculated?

.
There is a really good thread from a while ago where MsBlack explains about tests they do to check for blood mixing that would tell you if you needed to get rhogam after the birth. I started it because my blood did mix and we discovered it because my OB (yes, I am not a UCer, don't shun me, ok? I support the concept and believe in trusting your body so lurk here) did the tests "routinely." I wound up having to have additional testing because there was alot of fetal blood in my blood stream and needed to get extra rhogam to protect against antibodies. BTW, the test they did was prior to my natural birth, so the mixing occurred during my uncomplicated, trauma-free pregnancy (somewhere between when they did the tests at 28 weeks and labor)...
post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
Can this thread get back to the OP now?

She did have a question.

lol, sorry OP for continuing the derailment of your thread
post #28 of 37
i looked up my blood donor card and learned that i am rh+.

the issue of rh contamination only pertains to women who are rh- status who may have a rh+ child. this pertains to 10% of caucasian pregnancies as other populations have lower incidence of rh- status (wiki).

the value of prenatal innoculation is still up for debate from what i read, but the value of innoculation within 72 hours of birth or trauma of an rh- mother and an rh+ baby is extremely valuable particularly to the health of subsequent babies (they are at greatest risk for RHD--which has mild to extreme symptoms that increase with each subsequent sibling).

since an rh- mother can give birth to either an rh+ or rh- baby, the standard of care prior to use prenatally was to type the baby after birth to determine if the innoculation is needed.

i found researching this to be very personally rewarding. thanks for the information and sources that you all presented. while i still believe that contamination during natural birth is less likely, i do think it is important for parents who are at risk (rh- mothers) to be informed and have access to this innoculation.

and, as i mentioned before, when i talked to the family doctor's office, they said they would be happy to give the innoculation within 72 hrs of birth.

so, a family doctor may be a good resource.
post #29 of 37
gini:

people who use obs are not shunned here. for my own part, i want women to feel informed and empowered about their choices--whatever that is.

admittedly, for my own part, i often question "routine" testing of all kinds--in and outside of pregnancy, female health, etc. i mean, i even question what my dentist does--and that's definitely routine! LOL

in this instance, i simply researched out of real curiousity. i learned a lot!
post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
You've intuited your baby's blood type? Fascinating.
I have to admit that I've found many of your responses here and in the past to be quite rude, but I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting. Please let me know if I am, and if so, I apologize. I do realize that it's difficult to portray feeling and meaning through written words, but honestly, I cannot read anything other than sarcasm in your comment.

Are you truly fascinated by your (mistaken) assumption that zoebird was intuiting her baby's blood type? Because if not, I do not see how your comment adds to this discussion.

One of the biggest reasons I love the UC forum so much, and visit here more than any other forum on Mothering, is because of how much support I feel here. Nowhere else, in my opinion, can women ask such deep, personal, and spiritual questions and receive nothing but validation and helpful responses. I do not think I'm the only one who would like to keep it this way.
post #31 of 37
You can become sensitized even if you do everything right. I suspect it's less likely in a natural birth with a physiologic third stage, but of course there's no research either way. You can also become sensitized during pregnancy. This happened to my mom, actually. She wasn't sensitized when the pregnancy began, and some time during pregnancy she became sensitized. My brother was induced at 37 weeks and had significant jaundice that required phototherapy (which can happen because the baby's blood cells are attacked in utero) but luckily was otherwise healthy. This was baby #5 for my mom. She decided to stop having kids after the Rh sensitization, since sensitization can post very significant problems to subsequent babies.
post #32 of 37
Wow this thread got heated.

I wanted to say that my understanding of Rhogam is not that it kills blood cells. Rather, it introduces a small amount of the antibody into your body, which satisfies your body's need to have the antibodies within it (and therefore it doesn't produce its own antibodies). Of course it's possible these antibodies do go on to kill cells. Thinking about it I can see how either explanation would lead to the same result - the body doesn't produce antibodies.

I personally, have found the prenatal Rhogam does tend to be really arbitrary (it's only good within a 72 hour time frame). However I believe it's prudent after any "trauma" - an auto accident, amniocentisis, etc.

I personally believe that a mother should choose to have the baby's cord blood typed after birth and if the baby is + it would be prudent to consider Rhogam.

These are *my* beliefs on it. I have never had any prenatal trauma and have never had it during pregnancy, but I have chosen it after all three of my + babies were born (and will do so again if this new babe is positive).

I've written an article on Rhogam which regularly gets me flamed You can read it here.

These are my personal views and opinions, and I've linked a few resources at the end of my article to provide other opinions.

I am interested in this issue and would like to see evidence and documentation on the Rh issues before and after Rhogam (and BayRho and other shots).

And also - the blood transfusion thing mentioned in this thread - you can take Rhogam after a transfusion. I believe it is the same dose given to Rh- women who have had a miscarriage. It's smaller than the postpartum dose and gives protection for the future
post #33 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
You've intuited your baby's blood type? Fascinating.
i think zoebird was saying her intuition was telling her it wasn't going to be an issue for her and her children. and it won't since she and her dh are both rh positive.
post #34 of 37
That's right, Rh+ women and even Rh- women with an Rh- husband (or should I say the father), do not have to worry about incompatibilities.

The only ones that are affected are Rh- women that have an Rh+ baby, but the do take precautions for all Rh- women, just in case.

Personally, I don't go in for all that "just in case" stuff.
post #35 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
reading the link above about thr rhogram shot, it seems to me that if you're having a natural, noninterventive birth, you don't need the shot. it's only if you have interventions (and thus the risk of "blood mixing") that you may need the shot.

so, it seems to me that it's nothing to worry about.

it's odd that i didn't know this factually, but i did know it intuitively. recently, a woman asked me abotu the shot and i said that i felt it wasnt' necessary. she asked if i knew our blood types and all that, and i said that i didn't.

she said that it was necessary. i asked her why, and she brought up a bunch of bogus stuff like "because that's what is done." so, i said "what about before those things were done? did women and babies die from rhogram incompatiability or something? do you know?"

and then i sort of "realized" that it's not at issue. i didn't know why it wasnt' at issue, but i realized that it wasn't an issue. and i just felt good about not worrying about it.

this article gave me some good info to back that up--but it just makes sense. i mean, long before we even knew about blood types, women had babies with different blood types and i'm sure that most of them survived just dandy.

so, i wouldn't be too worried about it and i'd only get it if i went in for interventions anyway.
In reading UC books, etc., a couple of women said that if the placenta comes out naturally, there's no mixing of the baby's blood with the mother's. It's only when a doctor/midwife/etc. pull on the cord to get the placenta out and cut the cord before the baby has gotten all of the blood where there's a chance of the blood mixing. In prenatal books and such, they always (it seems) point out that the baby's blood and the mother's blood never mix. The mother's blood brings the nutrients to the barrier and pass them across without going across themselves and the same with the wastes from the baby. So it makes sense that a placenta that comes out whole, is not "helped" by anyone, and that has given all the baby's blood back to the baby would not allow the baby's blood to mix with the mother. Also, some women have had their rh- change to rh+ I have a book that mentions that. Polly's Birth Book by Polly Block.
post #36 of 37
The words below are paraphrased, not a direct quote, as I cannot quote more than 50 words from a book here. Polly Block said that on three different occasions in her midwifery classes, someone told the class that her Rh had changed from - to +. She said that every time it was a doctor, not the mother who caught the change in Rh. Obviously, the doctors were shocked and ordered more tests. Polly Block said that at first she had not taken these seriously and thought that there had been mistakes. But she found out about 6 others and in one of her classes a woman said that she also had - blood but that it had been + for the past 6 years. The thing the women all had in common was that they were purifying and building their blood by changing what they ate.

I don't know if the book is still available. Here is the information I have, if you want to look for it. Polly's Birth Book - Obstetrics for the Home by Polly Block. Hearthspun Publishers, 475 North Third West, American Fork, Utah, 84003 There is no copyright/printing date that I can find and no ISBN number. I've had the book for many years. Apparently the diet she recommends may be a factor in the change in Rh from - to +
post #37 of 37
Paraphrasing again, from Unassisted Homebirth, An Act of Love by Lynn M. Griesemer. One of the mothers in the birth stories was Rh- and did a lot of research to find out if she should take the shot. She learned that the mixing of the blood has a better chance of happening in settings where the cord is pulled on to "yank out the placenta" or the cord is clamped before all the fetal blood is circulated back to the baby, "leading to... back up of fetal blood into the mother's circulation." She had taken one test for the antibodies, it was negative, and she had "stopped taking Rhogam after my fifth baby". The lady had had 7 children at the time of the story. The story starts on page 329 of the book.
The same opinion is stated on page 226 of the book.
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