pictures of bottles in YOUR books - Page 4

[Sandstress]

And for my on topic response...
I (of course) don't throw away bottles or books with bottles.

My daughter has no frame of reference for nursing, so her experience is with bottles. We don't censor her access to other forms of infant feeding. At the developmentally-appropriate time, I will discuss her situation with her and hopefully she will have the luxury of making her own infant feeding choice.

I know that the choice of the word "choice" has real underlying meaning for many of us on the board, who feel that our unusual experiences as well as desire to be part of this board are somewhat marginalized. It's when statements are made about not "valuing or appreciating" something that is a very real part of our lifestyles that tempers flare, and probably rightly so. Of course they are all "choice" but often the statement of that fact is meant with underlying meaning and judgement.

One shouldn't judge a FF mom, even when the FF was just a "parenting choice." What you should do is change the environment so that next time her choice is different. A more even distribution of infant feeding methods in baby books and toys may be a small part of that change.

[Sandstress]

Yes, but the OP wanted to discuss the _image_ of a baby bottle in children's literature. I don't agree that discussing the meaning OF and BEHIND words is out of place in this discussion. Look at the threads and posts about the usage of the "breast is best" phrase and what that amounts to... The mere image of a baby bottle is not threatening, unless you understand it to mean the over-riding influence of formula companies, or whatever. The OP asked a simple yes or no question, but are we really not allowed to say anything more about it?

[wombjuice]

Yes, but the OP wanted to discuss the _image_ of a baby bottle in children's literature. I don't agree that discussing the meaning OF and BEHIND words is out of place in this discussion. Look at the threads and posts about the usage of the "breast is best" phrase and what that amounts to... The mere image of a baby bottle is not threatening, unless you understand it to mean the over-riding influence of formula companies, or whatever. The OP asked a simple yes or no question, but are we really not allowed to say anything more about it?

I was not referring to the question in the original post. I was talking about the SAHM vs. WOHM debate.

[preemiemamarach]

Originally Posted by felix23

I'm all for acknowleding my right to make choices, but I don't see letting my preemie daughter starve to death as a choice. Maybe you do, but for me it just isn't.

And to go back on topic I really wish there were more books that showed mothers pumping and giving their babies ebm. Since some babies are going to have to take bottles for some reason or another, I wish it was the norm to show that bottles have ebm in them instead of formula. Until then, I'll just pretend and that is what I will tell my dd is in bottles. As she gets older we will have more age appropriate conversations about formula feeding.

to both points. You and Kerri are the only people who have addressed my upthread question regarding those of us who HAVE to feed with something besides the breast directly. Maybe we should collaborate on a children's book featuring babies getting EBM, babies getting tube fed, etc.

[preemiemamarach]

Originally Posted by Kierdan'sMom

BUt we don't all get to make "choices". I can't live without power....Wanna know why? Because I have an extremely special needs child who requires a pumpf or tube feeding. So its not a choice to keep the power on, KWIM? Its also not a choice to go union for DH...He had to so we can have insurance because once again, DD has special medical needs that necessitate insurance. NOt everything in life is a choice. Feeding DD formula was not a choice. A choice means that there was more than one option. There is not always more than one option. I fed DD elecare, or she died. Since the latter is both illegal, and immoral, and unnecessary, I went with the former as its not a choice I can even legally make.

But thats completely offtopic, so yeah that to what lerlerler said. Thats a very succinct way of putting it!

our situation is not quite as severe as yours (DS gets half elecare and half EBM until his GI procedures next week, then we may also have a feeding tube), but I just wanted to thank you for this. It's really hard to FF DS when I was soooooo committed to giving him only EBM, and knowing someone else *gets* it (when everyone, including our Gastro, doesn't understand how emotional this was after 9 months of EPing) is a big, big deal to me. Thank you.

I know that was a little OT, but think about this- how rare are situations like ours (not just her but the other mamas here who had to bottle feed) if that many of us are posting here? In the absence of non-breast methods of feeding, all our babies would have died. I don't see how obliterating images of something that keeps some babies ALIVE is the solution to the large numbers of parents who choose FF because they see it as just as good as BF.

[RoadWorkAhead]

Originally Posted by preemiemamarach

our situation is not quite as severe as yours (DS gets half elecare and half EBM until his GI procedures next week, then we may also have a feeding tube), but I just wanted to thank you for this. It's really hard to FF DS when I was soooooo committed to giving him only EBM, and knowing someone else *gets* it (when everyone, including our Gastro, doesn't understand how emotional this was after 9 months of EPing) is a big, big deal to me. Thank you.

I know that was a little OT, but think about this- how rare are situations like ours (not just her but the other mamas here who had to bottle feed) if that many of us are posting here? In the absence of non-breast methods of feeding, all our babies would have died. I don't see how obliterating images of something that keeps some babies ALIVE is the solution to the large numbers of parents who choose FF because they see it as just as good as BF.

We're not as rare as people would like to believe, and becoming more common by the day if the internet is to be believed. And I've heard all these reasons why, but none of them applied to us. DD's issues were freak in nature as in she's HB'd, unvaxed, BF, etc. and yet she still has this, though most want to link to some of these things. Food allergies/GI issues are an ever increasing reality that is changing the realities of BFing.

[annettemarie]

Closed pending moderator review. Thanks for your patience!

[annettemarie]

Just an update: I haven't forgotten this thread, but won't be able to get to it until sometime tomorrow. It's my daughter's birthday tomorrow and I just don't have time tonight. Thanks for your patience!

[annettemarie]

I have removed as much of the off-topic conversation on WOHM/SAHM/Choice as I could without disrupting the flow of the thread.

This isn't the Mommy War forum. Nor is it the anti-bottle forum or the anti-formula forum. If you have questions about where you're posting, you may want to read the Lactivism forum guidelines here.

While I realize that threads go off-topic, the off-topicness on this thread was such that the OP got completely lost and the thread was venturing outside the purpose of the forum. Please stick to the OP's question.

Thanks, and thanks for your patience!

[elanorh]

Originally Posted by preemiemamarach

OK- I have a question for you (not meant as a snark, I'm really curious to know what you think).

Since my son will never be able to BF directly, and he will likely never see a sibling BF, but I am committed to teaching him that it's *normal* for babies to get milk from their mothers' breasts, what kind of imagery should I show him? What should I say about bottles? His bottles have either EBM or medical formula in them- He sits with me while I EP for him all day and watches (and tries to interfere, lol). I expect that, when he gets old enough, he will assume that the milk in bottles he sees in public, books, whatever, came from some mama's breasts, extracted by a pump. Then he will learn, later, that what I did for him is actually exceedingly rare, and like you said, most of those bottles have formula in them. But I assume he will already have a deep-seated belief that babies get mother's milk, regardless of the vehicle.

So- since bottles are in his reality- do I teach him that this is a 'second best' way of being fed, implying that something is wrong with one or both of us?

I'd like to think that someday, he'll get married and have babies, and his wife will continue to provide milk for their baby, even if there are hurdles like prematurity, illness, WOHM, whatever. And that he will say, 'my mom pumped for me for x amount of time (please let it be at least a year!), so it can be done'.

Sorry it was so long 'til I was able to respond to your post. Life gets busy ....! And my online time is limited sometimes.

I actually thought a lot about this very question about 4 years ago, when Ina was on 100% Neocate and I was pumping to rebuild/maintain my supply while on a TED and not sure we'd be able to get her back to breastmilk ....

I think I'd still do things with her as I've done them with her now - limit exposure to bottlefeeding imagery when/as possible; I don't denigrate bottlefeeding, and she knows that Daddy gave her bottles of breastmilk when I was working -- I don't talk a lot about when she was on Neocate, and when she was so very ill (FTT) - because she's sensitive and I don't want her to worry or feel bad about how worried we were for her, KWIM? But as she gets older I will be very open about it.

In our family's case, knowing SJ also has multiple severe food allergies, I think it's likely that my children may, as adults, find themselves also dealing with TEDs and food allergies. Therefore, I want them to know and understand that there are ways to continue breastfeeding, and that it is 110% worth finding a way to make it work if at all possible.

I would say that, with your ds, talking about breastfeeding and having him around mothers who are breastfeeding (family, friends?) -- books which show breastfeeding and being matter-of-fact about breastfeeding would be the way to go (it's what I planned with Ina when I thought she might be ff'd). And being equally matter-of-fact about alternate feeding methods, whether it's an SNS or whatever, and stressing that each mom and baby have different challenges ....

I think, if you feel that your child would benefit from role-playing with bottles since that's how he was fed, then definitely do so. Just continue to stress the breastmilk aspect of what's IN the bottles -- and as your child gets older, your conversations will naturally expand to the fact that it's not always breastmilk in the bottles he sees, and the various reasons that a baby may need to be bottle-fed, or may need formula.

For me, the societal connection between baby bottles and formula-feeding is something I have chosen not to invite into my home; if bottle-feeding were a regular part of my world, I might treat it differently. But I feel like I've got an opportunity to saturate my children with breastfeeding imagery while they're young, and while that doesn't preclude alternate feeding methods, I don't see a reason to emphasize bottle-feeding in particular, when the dominant societal interpretation of bottles is "bottles = formula."

ETA: One thing that I do want to emphasize is that EPing is so, so difficult (I only did it for a few months but that was long enough). I have nothing but admiration for mothers who, for whatever reason, have ended up EPing for their children. And I emphasize that with the girls, too.

[MommytoHHH]

I'd say that we have kind of avoided books that are bottle-feeding heavy. I actually think that out of the 50 or 60 books that my DD has (mostly bought by grandparents, friends, etc.) that I don't remember seeing a bottle in any of them. DD has one book about breastfeeding, and when we picked up a book about the new baby, I looked through and found one that talked about breastfeeding the new baby - rather than the ones that say things like 'you're a big girl now, you can help give the baby its bottle" and make no reference to the fact that many babies breastfeed and do not take a bottle. That said, I would never edit a book that we already had or that someone gave us. If DD asked, I might explain about our family thoughts on breastfeeding/bottlefeeding, but I would never "edit" a book. I don't think I would give DD a bottle to play with with her babies - I'm not sure she'd know what to do with it, though she does try to share her sippies with them. She gives them na-nas and I'm perfectly happy with that.