Let's Talk About NOT Cutting The Cord - Page 2

[lil_earthmomma]

Originally Posted by coyotemist

The thing about this discussion that leaves me wondering is this...both of my children had jaundice. Jaundice develops from the body breaking down the extra red blood cells needed for oxygen transport in the uterus. Once the baby is breathing room air (instead of depending on mom's arterial blood supply for oxygen) their livers start breaking down the extra unneeded cells, which results in bilirubin circulating in the blood. The baby needs to eat and poop to get rid of this.

Susan Weed in "The Childbearing Year" says to cut the cord "as soon as convenient" to prevent jaundice.

Also, physiologically, a little bit of crying is good for the baby, it clears the lungs and helps close the foramen ovale and ductus arteriosis in the heart (switching from fetal circulation to "adult" circulation).

We worried about the little bit of jaundice our older children had, it makes them sleepy and not want to nurse, and then get dehydrated.

Also, in c-section birth I do not believe it is possible to leave the placenta attached. The baby must be moved out of the way for the surgeon to get in to extract the placenta, and the baby must be warmed right away to prevent hypothermia. Surgical suites are kept quite cold, and holding the baby near mom while the surgeon does his/her work would not be good for the baby.

Jaundice is a condition that every newborn goes through in some varying degree, from so slight that it isn't even noticed, to very severe and treatement is needed.

The only thing to beware of as far as cord blood and jaundice is milking the cord. No one should squeeze or slide their hands down the cord as this can give the baby a huge excess of red blood cells. If you allow the cord to clamp naturally this will not happen.

And as for the crying is good for the baby thing, what about the babies who are born gently and simply do not cry?

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife

The placenta is raw meat. I wouldn't advise carrying it around at your side for 24 hours and then eating it.

I wonder how long it would be safe to leave the placenta attached with the intention of consuming it after cord cutting? 20 minutes? An hour? 3 hours?

I am firmly committed to the idea of placentaphagia for my next birth, but also would like to consider leaving the placenta attached for a little longer than last time (which was about 5 minutes, when the cord stopped pulsing).

[Blu Razzberri]

Originally Posted by HidaShara

...The blood in the cord/placenta doesn't necessarily continue to circulate after birth. The mother is no longer there to fuel the mechanism...

Well; exactly. The blood would no longer be circulating; but 'draining' back into the baby where it belongs.

Originally Posted by snazzy_mom

...I wonder what the likelihood of keeping the cord attached longer is if the baby is delivered via c-section...

I can't remember which site; but according to at least one of the two sites I linked to in my previous posts; keeping the cord attached after a c-section is possible; you just have to let the doctors know your wishes before hand.

Originally Posted by Hesperia

...As for complete and total blood to the baby, that is cord clamping DELAYING. Lotus birth isn't just about the blood aspect...

You're right about that. I just didn't realize there was a separate term for it. I talked to the midwife about delayed clamping and she explained that the cord cuts off the supply naturally (which is when the pulsing stops); and then you cut the cord; and she called it 'delayed cord clamping'. This is what I want to do. She also told me that I don't need any special permissions from the hospital for this; but if I wanted to do a Lotus Birth; I'd need permission to do that.

Thanks 'ayogurtsmearedsari' for your thoughts. You're right about being able to change your mind if the lotus birth thing doesn't seem to be working out; and there really isn't any reason (besides my own gross-out factor) to try Lotus Birth. I'm not quite sure if I could handle seeing the placenta for that long though...I'm going to have to play that out in the moment. I guess I could always have a permission request note typed up to bring to the hospital; or get permission just in case.

Originally Posted by coyotemist

...Also, physiologically, a little bit of crying is good for the baby, it clears the lungs and helps close the foramen ovale and ductus arteriosis in the heart...

As for the first part of your post wondering about jaundice (which was also addressed by lil_earthmomma); the risk of serious jaundice requiring medical help is such a small risk; vs the side effects of baby going without their needed blood! As it was also mentioned; you shouldn't squeeze the blood out of the cord; but rather let it do it's thing the way nature intended for it to happen.

But as for the crying being good for the baby part; I'm pretty sure that's "old school thinking" and I can't find anything to back that up. COUGHING clears the lungs; crying is just a harder version of breathing.

Originally Posted by Limabean1975

...I wonder how long it would be safe to leave the placenta attached with the intention of consuming it after cord cutting? 20 minutes? An hour? 3 hours?...

If I had to guess based on meat I'd get from the grocery store; I'd be ok with about a half hour; which would be enough time to allow the benefits of delayed cord clamping; and prepare it for consumption. But you should probably post a new thread about this. I don't know much about consuming the placenta because just the thought of it grosses me out a lot; so I never worked my way to learning about it. Good luck to you, though.

[art_teachermommy]

subbing so i can come read this great thread later

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by coyotemist

The thing about this discussion that leaves me wondering is this...both of my children had jaundice. Jaundice develops from the body breaking down the extra red blood cells needed for oxygen transport in the uterus. Once the baby is breathing room air (instead of depending on mom's arterial blood supply for oxygen) their livers start breaking down the extra unneeded cells, which results in bilirubin circulating in the blood. The baby needs to eat and poop to get rid of this.

This is an oversimplification of the whole physiological process, but at 37.5 weeks pregnant with 2 other little ones I'm too tired to look up the articles that show that jaundice is no more likely to occur (especially assuming no injected oxytocin into mom and no Vit K), and that it is, in fact, more likely to prevent anemia in the 2 to 6 month old if left alone.

We tried for a lotus birth with #2, but I got annoyed with the cord after about 2 hours, so we cut.
This time, we will again proceed as though a lotus birth will happen (I am more prepared this time, practically speaking, with flannel blankets to wrap it in and am about to sew a bag to keep it in, which is how I came across this thread via google looking for a pattern , and I will have a jar containing sea salt and lavender in with the other birth supplies . . . last time I figured I'd just let it sit in a bowl, but that really was never going to work out), but we also have purchased cord clamps and will pre-sterilize a pair of kitchen shears just in case.

[desertpenguin]

Originally Posted by pixiepunk

so what we chose to do instead was to allow a few hours to pass after the birth before we dealt with the cord, and then rather than abruptly cutting it, we used candles to slowly and gently burn through the cord while the baby nursed.

this is what i am planning on doing. from what i have read, it used to be practiced in Chinese medicine quite frequently, as a way of returning 'heat' to the infant.

[janasmama]

^ Just out of curiosity, why would you want to slowly allow the cord to come away (I get the gentle birth thing so please expand on that). Just asking because it doesn't seem that the cord actually has nerve endings or anything that would cause the baby any pain when it is cut.

[terrabella]

Originally Posted by janasmama

^ Just out of curiosity, why would you want to slowly allow the cord to come away (I get the gentle birth thing so please expand on that). Just asking because it doesn't seem that the cord actually has nerve endings or anything that would cause the baby any pain when it is cut.

Oh! It's not a "pain" thing. It's a violence issue. It seems that infants truly do understand their placenta and their bond to it. It's like a security blanket. It's been their contact and comfort. They touch and handle the cord, they can feel the soft "pillow" that is the placenta. It's their security blanket. So first, there is the birth, traumatic. No question, a HUGE transition. And then you cut away their last contact. Yes, the baby knows our voice, yes nursing is a wonderful comfort. But if you take notice, a baby *knows* when the cord is cut, and it jerks, and sometimes even begins to fuss then. And the flip side is the *know* when the placenta is still with them. They hold it out of the womb, even though it's in a sack. They know if it's not lying right next to them. But when the cord comes away naturally, you notice the infant is emotionally ready to part with it too. It's a transitional thing. And for people spiritual like me. To me, it's all part of feeding the soul, and helping your child come into this world with minimal shock and harshness.

Healthy. I've found that most things that stem from spirituality for me, are healthy. Circumcision for example. I simply find it to be violent. But now science says it's healthy too. I find formula violent to the dairy cows, who are horribly misused. But it is healthier too after all. I think cord cutting although, not anywhere near as violent as circumcision, is still a very rough and harsh act. I would not be suprised to hear some day that lotus birth babies did recieve some health benefits as a result of their strange parents choices! ETA: Meaning I do NOT circumcise or formula feed. Sorry, I'm not always clear in my sentence structure.

You have to see it. It may sound like mumbo jumbo, I understand that. I am an intellectual person, yes it sounds far-fetched, strange, etc. I get that. But if you just *see* it. If you experience a lotus birth, you see for yourself what words cannot seem to relay. They do know, they really do. And it is more peaceful and non-violent. You'll see that that cord and placenta have more of an essence than you had ever realized. That's why I encourage everyone to at least try it. You can always change your mind. A cord can always be cut later. It's not an either/or.

[Hesperia]

Originally Posted by ayogurtsmearedsari

Oh! It's not a "pain" thing. It's a violence issue. It seems that infants truly do understand their placenta and their bond to it. It's like a security blanket. It's been their contact and comfort. They touch and handle the cord, they can feel the soft "pillow" that is the placenta. It's their security blanket. So first, there is the birth, traumatic. No question, a HUGE transition. And then you cut away their last contact. Yes, the baby knows our voice, yes nursing is a wonderful comfort. But if you take notice, a baby *knows* when the cord is cut, and it jerks, and sometimes even begins to fuss then. And the flip side is the *know* when the placenta is still with them. They hold it out of the womb, even though it's in a sack. They know if it's not lying right next to them. But when the cord comes away naturally, you notice the infant is emotionally ready to part with it too. It's a transitional thing. And for people spiritual like me. To me, it's all part of feeding the soul, and helping your child come into this world with minimal shock and harshness.

:

[janasmama]

Thanks for the explanation

[skolbut]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to slowly allow the cord to come away (I get the gentle birth thing so please expand on that).

Either way, you still have to let the cord dry out and come away on its own. If you cut it, you have a yucky stump that eventually works its way off as the belly button closes and its no longer needed. If you don't cut it, you have a dried cord that eventually works its way off as the belly button closes and its no longer needed.

[BlessedOne]

babies should not HAVE to cry at birth....many times people just MAKE them cry because of either tradition or to make sure the lungs are working properly. When my last was born (at home) he did not cry until my hubby said ...shouldn't he be crying and so I suctioned his nose and mouth...which ticked him off and then he started crying for just a moment. BTW.....he was breathing just fine before suctioning.

with my other two....I do not remember if they cried. I think my first did.....but I would cry too if they sucked me out of my mom with a vac hose!! Dumb hospital...

With the birthing center birth, I do not think he did cry.


Umb cord blood..

With my second who was born in the birthing center, I donated the cord blood. I did not care to bank it. To me that is not needed for the most part. I would rather help someone that I know WILL use it....instead of bank it just in case my child or a sibling needed it. Most hospitals do not save the cord blood for donation (although perhaps they would if you told them). I guess it is because they would have to have permission...but the sad thing is...my hospital never brought donation or banking up. I would have liked to donate that blood too! With my homebirth, I tried to do the whole planting the placenta thing....but I did it in a big pot and it stunk....so I just ended up taking it out back and burying it (pg brain...ahhh can not think how to spell!!). A part of me would like to donate it from my homebirth...but it seems like a lot of work and there is enough of that in a homebirth anyway.

Cutting...
With my home births I intend to leave it attatched for atleast 30 minutes. Last time it was an hour because time flew by so quickly that I did not realize it had been so long. There was not any issue.

I have also read (but do not really believe) that leaving the cord attatched for too long can actually start sucking the blood out of the baby. But to me that does not make sense. I would assume they are referring to if the placenta is still attatched to you...because I do not think a placenta attatched to the baby without mom there would suck blood out. Now with mom there.....I do not know... but it is still a little hard for me to believe.

Juandice and anemic....
All of my kids have been a little juandice (and a little anemic) no matter when the cord was cut. So I do not know if it was just a coincidence or if it really does not matter when the cord is cut. Although to me it makes sense to wait until it stops pulsing. I am not concerned about my child having TOO much blood. I really do not believe that could be a major issue ...unless of course it is like double or triple what it is supposed to be...but just a little more I would not feel as being an issue. As a matter of fact....it would probably be better.
But I have read pros and cons to both cutting immediately and leaving intact. So there you go....

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by ayogurtsmearedsari

It seems that infants truly do understand their placenta and their bond to it. It's like a security blanket.

Shouldn't that role be filled by the baby's mother after birth?

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by skolbut

Either way, you still have to let the cord dry out and come away on its own. If you cut it, you have a yucky stump that eventually works its way off as the belly button closes and its no longer needed. If you don't cut it, you have a dried cord that eventually works its way off as the belly button closes and its no longer needed.

And a placenta to deal with.

Some people use the placenta being attached as a way to force themselves to slow down and take things easy after the birth. Which is perfectly valid. However, you can't just compare cord to cord in lotus vs non-lotus birth. There is a definite logistical difference.

[BlessedOne]

Just my experience and opinion.....

Originally Posted by ayogurtsmearedsari

Oh! It's not a "pain" thing. It's a violence issue. It seems that infants truly do understand their placenta and their bond to it. It's like a security blanket. It's been their contact and comfort. They touch and handle the cord, they can feel the soft "pillow" that is the placenta. It's their security blanket. So first, there is the birth, traumatic. No question, a HUGE transition. And then you cut away their last contact. Yes, the baby knows our voice, yes nursing is a wonderful comfort. But if you take notice, a baby *knows* when the cord is cut, and it jerks, and sometimes even begins to fuss then. And the flip side is the *know* when the placenta is still with them. They hold it out of the womb, even though it's in a sack. They know if it's not lying right next to them. But when the cord comes away naturally, you notice the infant is emotionally ready to part with it too. It's a transitional thing. And for people spiritual like me. To me, it's all part of feeding the soul, and helping your child come into this world with minimal shock and harshness.

Healthy. I've found that most things that stem from spirituality for me, are healthy. Circumcision for example. I simply find it to be violent. But now science says it's healthy too. I find formula violent to the dairy cows, who are horribly misused. But it is healthier too after all. I think cord cutting although, not anywhere near as violent as circumcision, is still a very rough and harsh act. I would not be suprised to hear some day that lotus birth babies did recieve some health benefits as a result of their strange parents choices!

You have to see it. It may sound like mumbo jumbo, I understand that. I am an intellectual person, yes it sounds far-fetched, strange, etc. I get that. But if you just *see* it. If you experience a lotus birth, you see for yourself what words cannot seem to relay. They do know, they really do. And it is more peaceful and non-violent. You'll see that that cord and placenta have more of an essence than you had ever realized. That's why I encourage everyone to at least try it. You can always change your mind. A cord can always be cut later. It's not an either/or.

When I cut my sons cord, he did not jerk or fuss. He did not even seem to notice.

Babies hold things....you put your finger against their palm and they hold it....whether you are mom, dad, or a complete stranger. It is a reflex. So it makes sense that they would hold onto the bag with the placenta in it (it is close to them).....but I do not think it really is a bond thing.....just that it is there. If you put a stuff animal there, they would probably do simular things.

that is just my take on it......Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can do what they want, but I think referring to cutting the cord as "violent" is a little much. If you see it as violent.....then by all means, do not cut it.
But I still am going to cut my childs (because I do not see it as violent).....after I feel it has been on long enough.

Thank you for your views on the subject.

[BlessedOne]

the thought of concuming the placents makes me want to VOMIT!!!
But then again, I am a vegetarian...lol. But even if I was not....eating a part of my own body is still gross and morbid in my mind! (Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter)
Ewwwwwwww beyond measure is my thought!! I would rather eat a raw dead animal then part of my and my baby's body!

Ok I have got to stop thinking about it, or I am going to have to clean off the keyboard.

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by BlessedOne

the thought of concuming the placents makes me want to VOMIT!!!
But then again, I am a vegetarian...lol. But even if I was not....eating a part of my own body is still gross and morbid in my mind! (Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter)
Ewwwwwwww beyond measure is my thought!! I would rather eat a raw dead animal then part of my and my baby's body!

Ok I have got to stop thinking about it, or I am going to have to clean off the keyboard.

Check out the threads on this topic elsewhere on MDC boards. THere are many good reasons to eat it, and it can be done in a much more palatable way (eg dehydrating & encapsulating) than just gnawing on a raw hunk o' meat. But that's OT for this thread...check out the other ones, you might get converted to the idea like I did!

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by Limabean1975

Check out the threads on this topic elsewhere on MDC boards. THere are many good reasons to eat it, and it can be done in a much more palatable way (eg dehydrating & encapsulating) than just gnawing on a raw hunk o' meat. But that's OT for this thread...check out the other ones, you might get converted to the idea like I did!

Yep, lots of good reasons. Hemmorhage prevention or stopping, PPD prevention, etc. And there are a lot of vegans and vegetarians who choose to do it too

[BlessedOne]

Originally Posted by HerthElde

Yep, lots of good reasons. Hemmorhage prevention or stopping, PPD prevention, etc. And there are a lot of vegans and vegetarians who choose to do it too

thanks for the info....but I still think I will pass. I have never eaten it and thankfully have not had any of the issues that it can help fix or prevent.....so I will stick to my method.

Back to the subject.........

[weliveintheforest]

Originally Posted by ayogurtsmearedsari

But if you take notice, a baby *knows* when the cord is cut, and it jerks, and sometimes even begins to fuss then.

I have heard this many times, and I did believe it, but at the births I have been at I never noticed this. I was only able to purposely watch for it at 2 births besides my own, and the babies did not flinch, fuss, or anything that made me think they noticed. I cut my son's cord 36 hours after his birth when it was completely dry because I did feel it was in the way. I was quite stressed about whether I was doing the right thing, but he also made no sign of discomfort at all, so I truly believe he felt no distress at it being removed.

I started some threads looking for advice on consuming a placenta after it was out for a while, and still haven't come to any decisions.