Puppy Pics *NEW* post #320-322 - Page 11

[mommyswenn]

We will send money to help cover the cost of spaying as well.

MCat, I have been posting about our puppy on another board I go to (of course I have, I've been spreading the word all over! )

Anyways... it's a really, really small board, and I would trust these women with my children w/o a second's hesitation... one of them lives in TN, another is moving there very shortly... If you want, I can ask if either of them would be able to take Jill and the puppies into hiding, if need be (and man, I sure hope it isn't )

We'll figure it out somehow.

[Maeve]

Originally Posted by Crunchie

Good lord. I can't believe some people. Have they no sense of responsibility??

I think you do have a legal leg to stand on--maybe not in giving the dog back, but getting your money back. You do (or can obtain) records of all of those vet bills, correct?? Well then the deal is if they want the dog back, they better come up with the $$. You could file in small claims court over that. Now you said money was tight, so the legal fees involved in actually doing that might not be possible for your family. But the threat of it might be enough, if that's the deal--that they need to reimburse you for all of those fees--I bet they'd let the dog stay. :

How in the hell do they think that in any way shape or form it is just fine to let your family shell out all of that money (not to mention the time and emotional investment) and expect the dog back without offering to pay for it?

Of course, I can't even wrap my brain around how obviously irresponsible they were with the dog in the first place.

I know JRTs live to run and hunt, but if I were you I'd make sure that Jill isn't off-leash anytime soon.

OT, Joanna--that article you link to in your sig is awesome (about killing shelter dogs). Is there anyway I can get permission to spread that all over in the course of my internet travels?

OMG, what horrible people!!! I agree w/Crunchie, give them all the bills and say fine, then they legally owe you this much money. I bet they won't want Jill back so badly.

[SevenVeils]

I think that legally, you are on firm ground. These people abandoned a dog, which you took in. The dog wasn't even pregnant when they abandoned her, so they have no claim to the pups. You have documented proof of attempts to facilitate the owners reclaiming her. They did not attempt to do so.

That's how I think it would go. If they bothered to take it to court.

Since you were considering adopting a puppy, could you take Jill too (or instead)? I understand that your dad is bonded with her, but he isn't going to have her no matter what. Either the evil ex owner will have her, or someone who will treat her well, right?

I would give serious consideration to disappearing these dogs at this time. Someone was holding her, she is obviously lactating and I'm sure that she was trying pretty hard to get out of wherever she was being held. I wouldn't put it past someone like that, to come and steal either her, or her and the puppies one night.

ETA: Oh, and I so want HighBall!

[thekimballs]

Originally Posted by Crunchie

OT, Joanna--that article you link to in your sig is awesome (about killing shelter dogs). Is there anyway I can get permission to spread that all over in the course of my internet travels?

Yes, crosspost at will as long as you duplicate the whole thing (without the last paragraph it sounds like I hate breeders, and I obviously don't) and with my name (Joanna Kimball) attached. As long as you do those two things, I give free crossposting permission.

In terms of the legal issues surrounding Jill, there's absolutely no question. I actually had a very similar issue and consulted a property lawyer several years ago. He said that ownership demands actions that come in the course of ownership. In other words, if there is no effort to reclaim the dog, no attempt to feed, no objection to other people making decisions for the dog, it is no longer their dog. So the prior owners have zero chance in court.

The issue, of course, is that the family that currently has her will not fight this in court. They don't want to make trouble. And the old owners DO want a dog who has made them some money.

So I think the first step is to get Jilly spayed ASAP. Spaying often lowers milk production, so it needs to wait until the puppies are eating solids well, but I would definitely take her in when they are 4-5 weeks old.

I suspect strongly that once they know that Jilly is spayed, they'll lose interest. You've removed the "golden egg" and so she's worthless.

I agree that there may be a need to disappear this dog and litter. If things get critical, by which I mean that she is taken again or the old owners start talking about taking her and the entire litter, we should work on underground railroading them. I am always willing to take them, but I'm thousands of miles away; it would probably be a lot more practical to get them to somebody knowledgeable who is closer. And it certainly may never come to that. I just want you to know that we will NOT abandon these dogs and there ARE options.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

OK update time.

Mom called me at 1pm today and said that the puppies were crying and nothing was making them stop not even Jill getting in with them so she would just get out again. It was already 85+ and I was worried not knowing what in the world was going on so I loaded up the kids and headed down here.

When I got here the puppies were screaming and Jill was just laying out not moving on the ground near them. So I got them out of the box and put them with her and she let them nurse for 10min. During that time I was worried because she was just laying there not reacting. I called the vet. explained what was going on and she said to watch her and see.

Dad brought home some chicken so I took that out to her and that perked her up really good I was minutes away from loading her up and taking her to the vet afraid they had poisoned her or something. I was also worried they had given her something to dry her up but the vet said that as far as she knew there wasnt anything that would.

Apparently she spent the majority of the night barking and jumping up and down looking around So the heat+the trauma of yesterday+her up all night=her being extremely tired and frustrated not being able to calm the puppies

Anyway after the good feed they all went to sleep and are nice and round again. I called the vet and got some flea stuff for Jill, frontline, she said it might make the puppies sick if they licked it but it wouldnt kill them. But since Jill dosnt spend much time laying with the puppies there isnt much risk of them getting into it. I think by tomarrow it will be dried up enough to not hurt them if they do.

Because of the horrible load of fleas she brought home yesterday we got her a all new box and bedding and a flea comb and I will be using that on the puppies later tonight. Right now they need sleep from exerting themselves so much today

I have introduced food but only 3 of them are even slightly interested. I also gave 2 of them about 2cc's of water each because they still acted hungry when Jill got up and I couldnt get her to lay back down.

I was worried her milk was drying up but even after the puppies suck and let go looking for a new nipple I can easily squeeze milk out of were they left from so not sure what is up with that??

All of this could have been avoided had they not taken her and kept her away from the puppies 7 hours yesterday : : : It messed up their routine and brought in those fleas (they did have a few but nothing like what Jill brought home)

She has been letting them nurse since that first good feed every hour or so but only for 5 min unless I stay with her and encourage her to stay. With 7 puppies it is a bit hard for some of the to find a good spot in that time frame but I helped them the best I could.

The good news is after the last feed 2 of them were playing a bit then fell asleep shortly after

Everyone of the puppies looks good and when I pulled up the skin it didnt stay up on the neck so they were not dehydrated. Oh and dad set up a house fan that is blowing on the box they are in and I cut small vent holes to allow the air to circulate

Several of them are walking pretty good now and looking less foggy eyed. They are so cut when they bark at this age

Hopefully : from here on out I will only have good updates :

Every one is torn up about what happend and dad is having a really hard time this on top of today being 1yr since he lost his brother in a horrible car accident. : It was crap he didnt need and brother with his bad heart as well.

I think that covers it for now. I am praying constantly that the woman dosnt get it in her head to take the puppies and Jill because I am no willing to let that happen and it will be a real mess if it happens

I have decided that if she does decide to I am going to tell her that she is still under vet care for the rat poison she ate and she has to go to the vet once a week still. I bet that right there will make her change her mind real quick. (I normally wouldnt consider lying like that but I am backed into a corner and I will do what needs to be done to protect Jill and the puppies).

I tried to post this earlier but MDC was down again.

[BunnySlippers]

Is it possible she has a touch of mastitis? Poor mama, that must have been awful for her.
I can't get over how ignorant some people can be. Even if she didn't have a nursing litter..why would they sudenly decide to take the dog when its clear she has been acccepted into her new home.

[gealach]

Hi MCcat and all you soon-to-be-puppy caretakers. I have been living vicariously through you guys and this thread. I REALLY want a dog, but my heart dog passed away just a few months ago and I still need some healing time. Oh, and there is the small matter that I am in the middle of a multi-stage relocation and I am currently living in a hotel. Not exactly time to introduce a new dog. But, I just wanted to say that I am very impressed with what you are doing for Jill and her puppies.

My mom lives in Knoxville and I'll be visiting there later in the summer. If there is anything I can do physically, I would be happy to help. Also, if Jill needs spaying I would be willing to contribute to the cost. Or, if she needs "disappearing" and there are financial issues with that, I would also be happy to help a bit. I bet, between all the these people on this board concerned about Jill and the pups, we could get the cost covered. Thank you for what you are doing for these dogs.

[thekimballs]

Sounds like mastitis. You need to carefully check all the teats and draw some milk out of each one; look for light green or grey threading of pus through the milk. Darn those freaking old owners. If she has mastitis, the puppies need to nurse (of course) but she needs antibiotics pretty urgently. In dogs it's not resolved easily without antibiotics and she can abcess through her teats and it's really ugly.

What are you trying the puppies on, food-wise?

[Sprungthe2.50]

I really really hope all goes well, have you contacted the humane society to see if they can help at all since these folks obviously sound neglectful at best

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I checked every nipple and all I saw was pure white milk. That was even after the puppies had nursed each one. As they let go to search for a new nipple I checked it and there was still white milk coming out. I also felt all over from front to back and the temp was normal no hot spots.

Brother has been giving mama purina puppy chow and that is what I gave the puppies mixed with water to a gruel. A few of them will lick it really well but some are not interested. Is it ok to give a little water?

I dont want anyone to think that I am asking for money I am not. Those of you who would like to help out with Jill's spay I wont say no to if that is what you really want to do. I would love to be able to have her spayed either way it goes.

Even a dollor or two would help. Brother was going to save up and have her fixed but that would take awhile. He is leary about paying for any more vet care for her now since it looks like he wont be able to keep her But if I can get the money together you can bet I will take her to have it done. If you want to help PM me. I will post pictures and the receipt after the spay so that you can see that I did use the money to help with that. If I cant get enough saved up then I will return every penny to those that gave.

I know some are thinking if it is only $70-$80 why cant they just do it since that isnt that much. But for us that is three quarters of our weekly food budget. My dad, brother & us are low income folks there is really no such thing as extra money around here.

This is the most caring and loving community : I cant tell you all how many times I have needed mental support and gotten it here when I asked for it :

UPDATE on the puppies

They are doing great today. There are 2 that seem to be more vocal and they will yip and stay awake for longer time than the rest but they are getting old enough that that is normal I think. Mom says it is my fault for spending to much time with them so they want me there When mom goes out to feed Jill they look at her out of the box and yip wanting to be petted. If I could I would be there constantly actually. They are just to cute not to love on. They are nice and plump and go to sleep after a feed after they play a bit so they are content. Jill seems to like her new ventilated box with the fan blowing on it She is also acting normally again. Which is a big relief.

I gave everyone a good combing with a flea comb and didnt get that many fleas off so that is good that they arnt eat up with them. I also combed Jill out, ick she had so many but a lot were already dead/dying from the frontline.

There are 2 that instigate "fights" Wrinkles & Gizmo. It is so funny to see them grab a ear of a brother or sister and try to shake it and fall over I am going to take my camera that has a video function on it down there and post that but it dosnt have sound.

I would video them but I have no way how to get video from a video camera onto the computer.

I think that covers it

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by SachaMacina

I really really hope all goes well, have you contacted the humane society to see if they can help at all since these folks obviously sound neglectful at best

The nearest human society is over a hour away in the nearest city and they will NOT get involved with issues here. I tried calling them before about another dog issue a year or so ago and they said there was nothing they could do. I even called the police dept. since they are the ones that deal with animal issues around here but he said there was nothing he could do. I know that in this case they will say the same thing.

Animals have no one here to protect them at all. No way to inforce leash laws (which we dont have other than in the urban areas) no one to check on cruelty cases. The only way they will get involved is if the do has bitten someone.

[mommyswenn]

MCat, you do NOT have to explain yourself to anyone. I have been where you are; so have many, many other mamas on this board. Knowing that things are as tight as they are for you guys, and here you are, doing so much for Jill and her puppies... I can't even tell you how amazing that is. So many would turn away from another person in need, and you are giving so much to this dog and her babies... (I'm totally crying now ) I only wish that I could pick Finn up from you in person, so that I could give you a great big hug and thank you for everything!

[thekimballs]

I don't know what you have around the house, but I start puppies on hamburger and evaporated milk. I know that's expensive; you can stretch it with cooked oatmeal or cooked rice, or with baby cereal. The puppy chow is certainly better than nothing, but it's not terribly easy to digest. An alternative is to spring for one bag of good food--something super-premium--and whir it in the blender to make a powder. That can be mixed with water and fed to them.

Regardless of the type of food, I am thrilled that they are starting to eat. That's a huge step in the lives of puppies and I always breathe a huge sigh of relief when they cross that barrier (because it means that I know I can take care of them if something happens to mom's milk supply). But she'll continue to feed them for a good two or three more weeks, even longer, though at shorter intervals. But good fat babies are exactly what you want at this stage.

Do me a favor and do a round-up: Seven puppies, Jill. Three puppies taken, and are you keeping one? So that leaves three plus Jill still to place, is that right?

[SevenVeils]

I'm just torturing myself, but... is HighBall spoken for?

[thekimballs]

oooOOOOOooooOOOOOOO --enabling vibes-- OOOOOooooOOOOOooooo

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by mommyswenn

MCat, you do NOT have to explain yourself to anyone. I have been where you are; so have many, many other mamas on this board. Knowing that things are as tight as they are for you guys, and here you are, doing so much for Jill and her puppies... I can't even tell you how amazing that is. So many would turn away from another person in need, and you are giving so much to this dog and her babies... (I'm totally crying now ) I only wish that I could pick Finn up from you in person, so that I could give you a great big hug and thank you for everything!

My dh isnt thrilled that I am getting this involved but I just cant sit by and do nothing when animals are in need.

I will start calling him Finn so that he will know his name when you get him

Originally Posted by thekimballs

I don't know what you have around the house, but I start puppies on hamburger and evaporated milk. I know that's expensive; you can stretch it with cooked oatmeal or cooked rice, or with baby cereal. The puppy chow is certainly better than nothing, but it's not terribly easy to digest. An alternative is to spring for one bag of good food--something super-premium--and whir it in the blender to make a powder. That can be mixed with water and fed to them.

Regardless of the type of food, I am thrilled that they are starting to eat. That's a huge step in the lives of puppies and I always breathe a huge sigh of relief when they cross that barrier (because it means that I know I can take care of them if something happens to mom's milk supply). But she'll continue to feed them for a good two or three more weeks, even longer, though at shorter intervals. But good fat babies are exactly what you want at this stage.

Do me a favor and do a round-up: Seven puppies, Jill. Three puppies taken, and are you keeping one? So that leaves three plus Jill still to place, is that right?

I will see what I can do about getting them some burger. I didnt know the puppy chow would be hard to digest but they are basicly just licking tiny amounts at this point.

I still dont know if I will keep one. Not only do me and dh have to iron things out but I have to make sure I can get their shots and I am a bit worried about their mama's strong small pray drive since I do have cats. As a matter of fact a mama cat and her 4 kittens adoped us a few days ago. They are around 4-5 weeks old.

I like to think if I raised the puppy around cats it wouldnt want to do them harm but I am just not sure. The puppy would of course be supervised but things happen sometimes.

So as of right now:
3 are going to mama's here, 2 brown boys and a girl
1 is tentativly spoken for but not 100% sure, the other girl
1 my brother will keep, it will be a boy
1 for me, I will be taking a boy
So that leaves 1 that isnt spoken for, a boy and Jill is still up in the air.

Originally Posted by SevenVeils

I'm just torturing myself, but... is HighBall spoken for?

HighBall is the one that I was thinking of keeping (I named him after one of Jerry Clowers stories) Though dd is getting super fond of KnotHead


Their noses are starting to show the little roman knot on them that young doxies seem to have. I will try to get a good pic. of that when I go back down.

I talked to my brother and he said that he can get them to play with his hand So they are really coming along fast on development. Walking really well, eyes are clearing up, very active when they are awake and they love to be picked up and cuddled.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

HighBall is the one that I was thinking of keeping (I named him after one of Jerry Clowers stories) Though dd is getting super fond of KnotHead

If you keep him I can stop plotting That's the one that I really really like. Shipping to California is probably way more than I could afford anyway

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

From what I have seen I think pretty much all over the US is around the same for flying them out. It is a high price for sure

[Sprungthe2.50]

outside help

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

The nearest human society is over a hour away in the nearest city and they will NOT get involved with issues here. I tried calling them before about another dog issue a year or so ago and they said there was nothing they could do. I even called the police dept. since they are the ones that deal with animal issues around here but he said there was nothing he could do. I know that in this case they will say the same thing.

Animals have no one here to protect them at all. No way to inforce leash laws (which we dont have other than in the urban areas) no one to check on cruelty cases. The only way they will get involved is if the do has bitten someone.

Oh dear, you deserve a medal for all this. You really are a hero

[Maeve]

Oh hon, I wish I was closer so that I could help you. (((hugs))) You are such a wonderful and generous mama to be doing all this.