Ok....need some support or advice

[BlessedOne]

I posted this in the pg area and they said I should post it over here. So here you go.....
I am getting ready to have my forth baby. I have breastfed atleast some with all of my kids. The first I breastfed and supplemented from the start and by 4 months I was dried up and she did not want to have anything to do with nursing. She was a chunky baby for the most part.

With my second I planned to nurse the whole time. Although others would give him formula (against my will) because he was extremely small. This always made me mad....but I had no support system.....even my husband would give him formula occationally. Thankfully he did not get a lot of formula(maybe 10 bottles)....but much more than I would like. Out of stubborness I nursed him a couple of months longer than a year (my goal was a year) just to make up for the formula.

With my last he followed the same route as my last son. He was very small and again...people would try to sneak him formula. At five months I took him to the dr for a different reason and the nurse wanted me to bring him in first thing the next morning to be checked by a dr since he was so small. I did (although I did not want to). The drs and nurses looked at me as though I had been starving him. The dr did so many tests ....chest x-rays, tested thyroid, HIV, CBC, complete nutrition level check and others that I can not remember. They told social services and they came to evaluate the situation. My son's tests all came back healthy except that he was a little low on iron, but not even enough for the dr to want to put him on prescription vitamins Which that says a lot considering my other two kids were prescribed these....even the primarily formula fed one. Which him being a little low on iron did not suprise me considering I am a vegetarian and have always been anemic...even before I stopped eating meat.
Social services could only tell me to start feeding him formula to fatten him up and to take him to the dr for check ups every couple of weeks until he showed significant weight gain. I did not want to, but felt like I had too. I still nursed him as well (as long as I could..) and was required to keep track of his eating scedule. This went on until he was a year old. It was such a stressful time for me.

So now that you have a little history. As I said earlier I am getting ready to have my fourth and I want to nurse her until she is one...or atleast close to it. But I do not want to have to go through all of the stuff I went through with my last two.
I do not know that my hubby is even going to be the least bit supportive about nursing...given the track record. He has no problem with formula.....but I HATE the stuff!
I told my mom all of this and she was like..."If he is smart he will not let you nurse." That hurt. Keep in mind this is coming from one of the people that would sneak formula to my boys and she does not understand nursing and has never done it.....supposedly because she smoked...I think that was just an excuse.
Breastfeeding really bonds you to your baby more than formula feeding. This may sound sad, but I think my boys who were nursed mostly have a stronger emotional bond to me and even others. They are soooooooo much more loving (meaning they come up and just want you to hold them and love on them.....they hug everyone(esp. me!) all the time).
My dd who was primarily formula fed seems more distant. And not so lovey lovey. It may not have anything to do with nursing, it may be a gender thing or maybe that she was born in a hospital (therefore less initial bonding time after birth) than the boys who were not. I do not know.
All I know is that I want to nurse this baby and I want her to be healthy and it would even be nice if she looked healthy so people would keep their nose out of my business.
I need advice on how to acheive this....providing my hubby even lets me try this time. He has said many times that things are going to be different with this one....so I do not know what he means. I understand that my hubby can not MAKE me do stuff or keep me from doing stuff, but it is so much easier when you have a support system that is close to you. And sometimes being in disagreement puts such stress on a marriage. So you have to ask yourself if it is worth fighting for. I love my husband and do not like to be at odds with him, but at the same time I do not like feeding my child nasty stuff like formula.
I have thought about animal milk (I put my last son on natural cream top farm fresh cows milk when he was 9-10 months old....so I did not have to give him any more formula...he did better with it than formula but he was also older. They say that cows milk is too harsh for little babies. I can not imagine any natural thing would be as bad as formula. I have heard goats milk is gentle enough for young babies.....but I have never used it. I am into the all natural food scene and prefer for my babies to have that same start. Ultimately I would like to nurse alone until a year or so.

So any advice would help. I know some things that would probably help, such as drink more water.

I pretty much leaked for the entire year of nursing and could even express milk after I stopped nursing. So it seemed like there was enough. Although if I pumped I did not get a whole lot.

What I think might have been the problem was the quality of my milk. I believe it had good nutrients for the most part(going by my last sons nutrition levels)...but may have been lacking in the fat department. With both my boys, I was on a very strict diet (not to lose weight...but just my eating regiment). And that diet did not contain much fat. As I said, I am a lacto vegetarian and for quite a while would not eat any processed food....only all natural unprocessed foods. I got down to 80lbs and everyone started thinking that I looked sickly, so I let up on the diet a little. I still ate all natural but would eat processed foods. And now I primarily eat all natural...but I am not nearly as strict as I used to be. For instance if I run out of my all natural syrup then I just use my hubbys fake junk.....before I would have never done that. But as long as I have my natural stuff, I use it. So I would guess that now I get more fat than I once did...so I am hoping that maybe this time everything will go alright.

I just really do not want to go through the same thing I did before but at the same time I do not want to feed my child formula and preferrably not animal milk (unless I can not make my milk work).

So please help me!

I am thinking that my hubby is atleast going to let me try with this one. I have only days left of the pg and he has not brought up getting formula. But of course I would not put it past him going to the store the day of and getting some. I hope he is not just putting off the battle until later. Although I definitely would hate to know right now that he is not going to let me nurse......I think that would really throw a loop in my stress level and cramp the excitement of having my new baby. But ultimately he will not bring up formula anyway.
I just have to do this one right! But how??

Oddly enough, my babies are always born at decent sizes (over 7 1/2 llbs) so my nutrition must not be too bad. Why has the nursing thing not worked well for me??

[Violet2]

I am so not qualified to give you any advice, but I couldn't read and not post. Sounds like you've had a tough time.

Have you thought about talking to a LC or a Doc that specializes in bfing? Make DH go with you too and let them know he's not sold on bfing.

With being vegetarian, are you sure you had enough fat in your diet? I have no idea if that's a relevant thought or not, but the only thing I could think is that maybe your milk wasn't calorically dense enough???

And perhaps you need to show DH the AAP guidelines for babies and look for a new ped?

I think you're going to have an uphill battle just b/c the last baby social services was involved which just undermines your authority and efforts on all fronts.

Good luck and don't give up!

V

[katbomumof3]

i'm sorry you don't have a good support system, that makes it so hard. I did not have a good support system with my first 2 children, and ulimately did not bf them for very long, b/c ppl kept pushing formula at me
with ds, i made it known before i had him, that i would be bf, and i have much more support, although there are still ppl saying "oh just give him a bottle, he's be happier that way":
i try not to let it get to me, but he is small, so i worry as well and get alot of comments about his size
how small were your sons?
I've heard that adding more natural fats into your diet can help, like certain oils
i feel the same way as you, i think i have an ok (not steller) supply, but wonder about the quality of the milk
i take fenugreek, drink tons of water and eat oatmeal, and am thinking i need to evaluate and change my diet, including more healthy fats
good luck, tell your dh he needs to support you

[elizaMM]

sorry, typing one-handed, but , it sounds like you are going to need lots of ongoing help. we'll be here for you, but

Originally Posted by Violet2

Have you thought about talking to a LC or a Doc that specializes in bfing? Make DH go with you too and let them know he's not sold on bfing.

...

And perhaps you need to show DH the AAP guidelines for babies and look for a new ped?

:

you need some professionals in your area to be there for you. i'd suggest a good Lactation Consultant, preferably IBCLC, a good bf-friendly doc for you AND a good bf-friendly doc for your baby (perhaps same as your doc. can you ask around for reccommendations?

try these:
How might I increase baby's weight gain?-http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain_increase.html


Handling criticism about breastfeeding- http://www.kellymom.com/bf/criticism.html


!

[BlessedOne]

well I am really upset right now...my hubby brought it up. I am SO MAD.....so needless to say things are not going well right now.
I have put my foot down and am planning on keeping it down. I hate having to be this way, but I feel very strongly about this subject.

I just keep crying...
I will post back later.

[miche28]

Oh, mama - you've fought quite the battle and should be so proud for standing up and doing what you know is right for your little ones. You're feeling frustrated that what you know in your heart is right and what science tells you is being sabotaged by those who should be your biggest supporters.
I'm sorry that this is the case, but am so impressed that you're sticking to your guns.

Your intention to breastfeed your baby to a year or more and offer no artificial breastmilk substitutes is what mothers have always known is the right thing and what medicine has shown to be correct.

I would encourage you to sit down with your DH and establish your expectations of him: by failing to support your breastfeeding relationship, he is harming you and your baby. There is significant evidence to support this. If appropriate, you should also have this discussion with your mother.

Remember, you are the mama and while your martial relationship is important, your baby's well-being matters more.

The primary way to get breastfeeding off to a good start is to ensure that you nurse early and often: baby should not be supplemented, unless medically indicated, and try avoid artificial nipples. If you find that weight gain isn't happening or you're experiencing soreness, then come on back here and/or get in touch with an LC.

In terms of your concern about the quality of your milk, please be assured that short of prolonged starvation, your milk will be perfectly balanced for your babies needs and will change to grow with them.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mom/mom-diet.html

So, first thing, call your local LLL group and try to get to a meeting before you have your baby. LLL can be an invaluable support and resource for information, especially when your support system at home is not so great.

Also, if you could find a BF-supportive ped before baby comes, that would be helpful - perhaps your tribal area here could recommend one.

In terms of birth, be sure that your OB/GYN understands your intention to breastfeed exclusively, beginning immediately after birth. On your hospital paperwork, be sure that this is also noted and be sure that your nurse is aware of this as well. Finally, if you have any friends at all (or perhaps a doula) who could act as a support during labour and the immediate postpartum period, that would be helpful and you could rely on them to advocate for you as well.

Phew... ok, that's a lot of info - keep asking and posting and let us know how you're doing.

[BlessedOne]

Originally Posted by miche28

Oh, mama - you've fought quite the battle and should be so proud for standing up and doing what you know is right for your little ones. You're feeling frustrated that what you know in your heart is right and what science tells you is being sabotaged by those who should be your biggest supporters.
I'm sorry that this is the case, but am so impressed that you're sticking to your guns.

Your intention to breastfeed your baby to a year or more and offer no artificial breastmilk substitutes is what mothers have always known is the right thing and what medicine has shown to be correct.

I would encourage you to sit down with your DH and establish your expectations of him: by failing to support your breastfeeding relationship, he is harming you and your baby. There is significant evidence to support this. If appropriate, you should also have this discussion with your mother.

Remember, you are the mama and while your martial relationship is important, your baby's well-being matters more.

The primary way to get breastfeeding off to a good start is to ensure that you nurse early and often: baby should not be supplemented, unless medically indicated, and try avoid artificial nipples. If you find that weight gain isn't happening or you're experiencing soreness, then come on back here and/or get in touch with an LC.

In terms of your concern about the quality of your milk, please be assured that short of prolonged starvation, your milk will be perfectly balanced for your babies needs and will change to grow with them.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mom/mom-diet.html

So, first thing, call your local LLL group and try to get to a meeting before you have your baby. LLL can be an invaluable support and resource for information, especially when your support system at home is not so great.

Also, if you could find a BF-supportive ped before baby comes, that would be helpful - perhaps your tribal area here could recommend one.

In terms of birth, be sure that your OB/GYN understands your intention to breastfeed exclusively, beginning immediately after birth. On your hospital paperwork, be sure that this is also noted and be sure that your nurse is aware of this as well. Finally, if you have any friends at all (or perhaps a doula) who could act as a support during labour and the immediate postpartum period, that would be helpful and you could rely on them to advocate for you as well.

Phew... ok, that's a lot of info - keep asking and posting and let us know how you're doing.

Well I made it through the night....although crying through much of it. It even seemed when I would wake from sleep in the middle of the night, that this agony would be right there to torment me.
I hate crying and I hate crying in front of people, but I could not refrain. I can only hope that him seeing me so upset (which really does not happen much) that he will have compassion.
Last night I was so upset that we really could not rationally talk about it....not that talking about it helped in the past. Although in the past, he would blame other people and try to make it look like he was on my side...that he was being forced just like I was..but I knew that was not the case. He was just trying to end me being mad at him.
I want to atleast get it to where he will give me a chance at nursing this time and if things are not going well, then maybe we can talk about other options (not formula but an animal milk). But I really do have a good feeling about nursing this time. My husbands take on it is that I have had several chances with the other kids and (to him) none of them worked out. But my take is that I have medical tests as proof saying that my last child WAS HEALTHY, just not fat. But for some reason people just have been overlooking that. I understand fat is important for brain development. But I do not feel that either of my boys are REALLY behind. They may not be AHEAD of the game.....but I definitely do not think they are really behind. They are three years old and 1.5 and they seem pretty close to target. My 1.5 year old walks/runs and is working on talking. My three year old talks up a storm...we are just trying to get him to announciate his words better. But that has nothing to do with his past diet (although my hubby claims it does). I have a friend that has two girls who both have slight speach impediments and both of them were formula fed....so food is not always the determining factor of development. But either way, both of my boys seem smart and pretty much on target.
We are going to be getting my daughter's ears checked this month because it has seemed like she has not heard us very well. She was primarily formula fed....so obviously the food they eat is not the sole reason why a possible problem could exist.
I just am bored with my husband being hard headed and acting like he knows a lot about the subject, when really he does not.
Honestly what it all comes down to is not the health of the child (which he would not admit to this) but it comes down to how people look at him as a parent. He does not want people to look at him as a bad parent because his child looks underweight. I understand that, I do not like people looking down on me for it either, but I am not going to change my childs diet just for what un-important people think about it. I am used to being looked at as odd.....I have not gone with the flow of normality for years now (I am a vegetarian, avid recycler, homebirther, and a BREASTFEEDER!!) I do things outside of the book of normality. I make decisions based on what I feel is right for my life...NOT what others think of me! I just wish my husband would not let other peoples thoughts affect his decisions so much.

I know bf babies tend to be smaller...I have had several friends who have had simular issue with their bf babies not gaining a lot of weight and of course they have gotten a little irritated about comments from others that have no clue. Some of them have asked me how I got through those times.......honestly it was just enduring and hating every minute of it.....so I do not think I would be much help to them.

I really wish this had not started down this road.

[BlessedOne]

you know one of the worst things about all of this is the fact that I can not confide in the one person that I have always confided in most......my mom. That really feels like a knife in the heart. Typically when having a bad day, I could just pick up the phone and rant to her about it and in no time I would feel better. But with this really really hard situation....one of the things I need her most for....she is not there for me.....and even worse....she is on the opposing side.




Outside of that.....this weekend is my wedding anniversary and I am so upset by my husband that I do not know that I can happily celebrate with him.

I really wish he would have waited to bring this all up............preferrable waited forever.

[BlessedOne]

SIGH!!!
Now my mom is all asking me why my 3 yr old is losing weight!! The thing is, I don't think he is! He still looks healthy and if any weight was being lost, then it would just be his baby fat! He has been going through a major growth spurt lately and has been getting a lot taller.......which could easily make one think he has lost weight.
I am just getting really bored with people questioning my parenting

Can I go live on the moon away from everyone else?

[tbone_kneegrabber]

I would suggest trying to eat more fat. And up your calories like CRAZY when nursing. Perhaps if you dramatically increase the fat content of your milk then your new lo will be bigger than your older kids.

I think its something like 3000-3500 calories per day for a breastfeeding woman. That's A LOT of food.

[BlessedOne]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

I would suggest trying to eat more fat. And up your calories like CRAZY when nursing. Perhaps if you dramatically increase the fat content of your milk then your new lo will be bigger than your older kids.

I think its something like 3000-3500 calories per day for a breastfeeding woman. That's A LOT of food.

yeah tell me about it!!!

I eat a lot of peanut butter and when nursing I switch to either whole or cream top milk. I do not eat much fried foods and I do not eat meat.....so I have got to work other fat into my diet. I do like cheese and eat quite a bit of it.

hmmmm what if I drizzled olive oil on my pasta and then put the sauce on? do you think that fat would help? Although honestly I do not eat a lot of pasta anymore.....ugg

See I am not sure what kind of fats I should aim towards

[MarcyC]

Try eating more nuts/natural nut butters, avocados, and bananas. Almonds are GREAT for milk production!!!

[BlessedOne]

update

ok so my baby was finally born (8 days late)........upon an hour after birth, I begin nursing and my hubby started trying to push formula. I stood my ground......he was not pleased. So sadly the first couple of days after my dd got here....I was stressed because of all this. But thankfully, he finally said he would give me a chance at bfing. So he has given me a month.....so I really have to get this right and prove to him that it will work. Thankfully the first month of nursing has never been a huge issue with me.....it was not until a little older that the others started looking behind........but I believe this time nursing will work.

[BlessedOne]

well so far the baby seems to be doing good......poopy and wet diapers, no majorly sinking soft spot or any other signs of not getting enough.
I have really been trying to make sure I get all of my calories......I hope I do not gain a bunch of weight.......but that can be addressed later....I am just wanting to be able to nurse and her be healthy right now. So far....outside of the getting used to nursing annoyances.....everything has been going great. Outside of the house not being clean...lol.

[asunlitrose]

Yay! I'm glad you stood your ground -- you CAN do this. I don't know how old the baby is now, but remember that it is totally normal for a breastfed baby to go back to their birth weight after gaining a few ounces. Lots of what they're born with is water weight -- think about how you would look if you spent almost a year in water!

Just keep counting poos and wet diapers. We're here for you!

[p1gg1e]

Hope things continue to go well.

I would look at getting a new Dr. one that is on your side as far as nursing goes.

Sorry your DH isnt as supportive as he should be. that would be really hard.

[mirasmom]

YAY! Hoping it's still going well. I was just going to add that coconut oil is a great healthy fat and it's really good for you. I add it to my oats in the morning a lot and it adds a pleasant coconut flavor

[BlessedOne]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

I would suggest trying to eat more fat. And up your calories like CRAZY when nursing. Perhaps if you dramatically increase the fat content of your milk then your new lo will be bigger than your older kids.

I think its something like 3000-3500 calories per day for a breastfeeding woman. That's A LOT of food.

yeah and I am doing good to get my 2000! I honestly just do not get hungry much. I many times have to make myself eat just for the nutritional side of things. But it is way too common for me to have gone through the day and realize that I have only had breakfast.........breakfast is the only meal that I do not like to go without.......I get hungry around the same time in the morning everyday.....but the rest of the meals....manytimes have gotten overlooked just because I do not realize the time and are not hungry.

That would probably be a big factor to my former problem.....and I am trying to fix it with this one.

[BlessedOne]

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

Hope things continue to go well.

I would look at getting a new Dr. one that is on your side as far as nursing goes.

Sorry your DH isnt as supportive as he should be. that would be really hard.

thankfully that dr moved........I have not gotten a new one....and quite honestly not sure that I want to with all that I went through.
I am not huge on drs. I know there are some good ones, but I try to avoid drs unless we REALLY need to go.

[BlessedOne]

Originally Posted by mirasmom

YAY! Hoping it's still going well. I was just going to add that coconut oil is a great healthy fat and it's really good for you. I add it to my oats in the morning a lot and it adds a pleasant coconut flavor

thank you......I would probably want to use it in a way that you could not taste the coconut flavor.......I do not like it.