Would you fire your nanny over this? - Page 5

[BusyBeeMom]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

It really doesn't sound like the OP *wants* the nanny to do those things.

Monkeybum, I think you hit it that given your preferences, your current situation with your children, and your location, it's probably not going to work with any nanny. This is how the situationr reads from an outsider:

- She doesn't drive.
- You won't allow her to take public transportation.
- You won't allow her to walk across the street to the park.
- You have a very small yard that you don't even like to be in with your children.
- You and your husband cannot get your child to turn off the TV without a tantrum but you want the nanny to do so.

I think if I were your nanny, I'd be losing my mind.

Cancel my previous posts. I agree with this. I missed these restrictions. I think it's really hard (and frankly a moot point) to determine whether a nanny working with these rules is "good" or not. I definitely think daycare would be better.

[girlstar808]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

The problem with that is that subsequent messages provided additional information about the situation.

I am not a newbie to forums and over the years I realize my judgment of the situation will be clouded by what others have posted or repeated. Of course, I read the OP's posts because she added to the story... that's how I roll when it comes to these advice posts.

I hope you (OP) make the right decision.

[monkeybum]

Awesome advice

Thanks everyone for your input. Awesome advice as usual from the great group here!

Just one comment:

Your nanny must be bored stiff and desperate for interaction outside of the house. I can understand why she looks bored and unhappy. I bet your kids are too. She and your children are basically stuck in the house all day long with no yard to play in, no place to go and no other children to come over and play. They can't even go out for a walk??

All of this is so true...but they can go for a walk. We have a beautiful very nice double jogger style stroller, and two single strollers - nice ones with the big wheels, and a wagon and/or my son likes to walk. I took them for a few walks, so did my husband to show her a few routes. I also bought a climber for the backyard and a sand/water table, (and showed her how to set it up). It has not been set up yet, and they have not gone for any walks other than with me or DH. One of her references said she was "a homebody" and didn't like to go out much... again, another red flag that I didn't really listen to up front. I was just so glad to have my baby away from the germ infested daycare...(she does pull them around the playroom in the wagon...).

The real road blocks with outings are that she doesn't drive, I don't want them taking the bus, (we are not in Toronto, but in a suburb), there are no good parks nearby, and the activities within walking distance are not appropriate for BOTH ages, so she can't do one with both kids in tow. How the HECK do parents with two kids and a nanny who doesn't drive make this work??? As mentioned there are not many kids in our area so no play dates within walking distance. It's really home, go for a walk, hang in our teeny backyard, or stay inside. Not ideal.

Yeah, so I totally agree everyone is bored and unhappy. I am looking at a few possible solutions - one is to put my son in 1/2 day summer camps then school every afternoon so the nanny can walk with the babe over to the rec centre/library and do some programs with him. I like the idea someone posted about letting her help to decide what the outings are - perhaps give her the choices. Tell her she has to pick one outing with the babe per day, but which outing/class can be her choice and then we set up a schedule. That should work fine if she only has the baby with her.

The second alternative is that we have a spot for both boys that has come up at a daycare centre I like; it's still a centre, so I am very scared about the prospect of my babe getting so sick again, but it's worth considering. So now I'm back to that whole nanny vs daycare thing again. Having a nanny has been very good for our family, but just not so great for my older son. (Though I am finding the lack of privacy is starting to wear on me...).

I actually called the agency who placed her and when they heard about the earphones, they said they consider that grounds for immediate dismissal and that they will replace her free of charge. . I said I wanted to try to work with her first as I do think she'd be better with just the 1 year old if they are able to do some programs, and compared to the other nanny's we interviewed, (who were scaaaaary) she does follow our AP'ing and my 1 year old reeeeally likes her. So maybe there is a happy medium. I dunno....

ETA: I would never just fire her, I would give her two week pay in lieu of notice as required by the contract we signed and as required by our local employment laws. If I could swing it to give her extra time (i.e. give her notice during vacation time when she could work, look for something else but while I'm home with them, I'd do that. I like her as a person and would want to make it easy as I could on all parties.

[pranamama]

I'd take the company up on the free replacement offer

[lyttlewon]

Why can't they take the bus?

[monkeybum]

Re: the bus. I try not to expect her to do something I can't do, (aside from staying home with 2 kids inside all day unable to leave the house ). The bus stop is quite a walk from home so she'd have to take the stroller to get to the bus stop. I just don't see how she could juggle bus fare, a 4 year old, a 14 month old and a stroller on to a bus - where would she put my toddling 14 month old down to fold the stroller and lift it on to the bus, and same thing getting off - where is my 14 month old while she unfolds the stroller, lugs it down the steps, unfolds it, gets it across the median on to the sidewalk....

And while she's trying to maneuvre the stroller and my 14 month old, who is holding my 4 yo's hand to make sure HE gets on/off safely...I just am not comfortable with it. These are all 4 lane busy streets, and my 14 month old is HEAVY. Neither me nor my husband can do it with JUST the 14 month old on our own, (we've practiced getting the stroller in and out of the car while holding the 14 month old - can't do it - let alone also watch the 4 year old, pay the fare, etc.).

I know it may sound like an excuse to some, but there are some things I just am not comfortable with.

[lilyka]

She doesn't sound that bad to me. not ideal but I have head phones on while I am taking care of my children . . . . You have two kids and a woman stuck in a house all day . .. and not a lot of options.

however if you will not allow them to take public transit (I have been doing this alone with three children since the youngest was a baby. but our bus allows you to take your stroller on and leave your child in the stroller if there is a handicap place available. if not you can get on and then take them out of the stroller. the four year old can pay the fare. this is super fun for them also a pass eliminates the hassle of money. They don't have it here but in Chicago you didn't even have to take your pass out of your pocket. you just aimed your butt toward the scanner. here you just show your pass. most people wear it on a lanyard. We used a harness on the baby once she was past stroller age but still impulsive. She is five now and doesn't have any trouble following directions at the bus stop and can easily walk 1 1/2 miles between stops. We just started with some practice rides and built up. Not to mention just the trip becomes another activity to amuse the kids. they love the bus. ) perhaps it would better suit your family to find someone who drives.

[EarthMamaToBe]

Okay I don't have time to read all the posts but being a professional nanny I do have some advice. First spell out IN WRITING exactly what you expect the nanny to do (and NOT do) TV time etc. Earphones are a BIG no-no. IF you get a nanny-cam don't make it a secret I know many a family who have lost good nannies after they found out they were being secretly taped. I never had an objection to a nanny-cam and a good nanny won't BUT secretly taping is a bad idea. You don;t WANT to catch her doing something you don't approve of you want to STOP her from doing what you don't approve of. You don't have to tell here where it is but inform her that one exists. Many can transmit to a website and let you look in while you are at work (If you want an "excuse" to give the nanny that is a good one, you miss them and want to be able to see them during the day. And DO drop in unannounced from time to time. Provide some craft type activities for the nanny to do with you LO's. And if you are still uncomfortable discretely look for a nanny. Also introduce her to some of the other nanny's or SAHMs in your area. DO trust your gut instinct but it sounds like you have a nice lady who needs some guidance as to what to do all day.

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by monkeybum

Re: the bus. I try not to expect her to do something I can't do, (aside from staying home with 2 kids inside all day unable to leave the house ). The bus stop is quite a walk from home so she'd have to take the stroller to get to the bus stop. I just don't see how she could juggle bus fare, a 4 year old, a 14 month old and a stroller on to a bus - where would she put my toddling 14 month old down to fold the stroller and lift it on to the bus, and same thing getting off - where is my 14 month old while she unfolds the stroller, lugs it down the steps, unfolds it, gets it across the median on to the sidewalk....

And while she's trying to maneuvre the stroller and my 14 month old, who is holding my 4 yo's hand to make sure HE gets on/off safely...I just am not comfortable with it. These are all 4 lane busy streets, and my 14 month old is HEAVY. Neither me nor my husband can do it with JUST the 14 month old on our own, (we've practiced getting the stroller in and out of the car while holding the 14 month old - can't do it - let alone also watch the 4 year old, pay the fare, etc.).

I know it may sound like an excuse to some, but there are some things I just am not comfortable with.

It really isn't that hard if you practice and are resourceful. I do it several times a week. Mostly I carry DS in the Mei Tai and DD walks with me. My DS is the size of an 18 month old, about 25lbs. If she wants to use a stroller you can get one that collapse one handed. If I bring a stroller I usually put DS in the Mei Tai and then collapse the stroller.

[mammastar2]

Are there low-floor buses on your routes? Then there is no need to collapse the stroller, and it keeps the babe contained during the ride. Heck, downtown people lug babies and strollers up and down the streetcar steps all the time.

I think the problem is that, given the nature of the position, you attracted a homebody, so now you're going to really need to prod her and be clear with your expectations in order to get her out the door with them. Walks and bus rides are absolutely necessary.

Why not get a big bike trailer/stroller that both kids will fit in? I know some people go nuts at the idea of a larger kid in a stroller, but for long walks they're great. We don't have a car and for shopping trips dd fit in ours happily with a stack of books and a snack through the age of 5. And they come with straps for 2!

Pulling them around the playroom in the wagon?? Oy - all 3 will be stir-crazy!!

[m9m9m9]

Personally, it sounds like daycare would be a better situation for you but if you keep the nanny....

Set up your home to be more conducive for the nanny to care for your kids.

Clean out the backyard. Get rid of all the balls - just keep one - goes over the fence - no more ball for the day. Figure how to control the bees. Setup the sand and water table yourself. Put a canopy up if its too sunny. If the playroom downstairs doesn't work, put it upstairs and move the furniture upstairs downstairs. Gate the kitchen so child can't go in by himself and open freezer, etc and so forth.

Just because you can't get your kids on the bus or out and about doesn't mean someone else can't. I am not being mean just honest. Some people are better at juggling things/figuring out things like that quickly. Maybe your nanny is one of them. Maybe she isn't. Let her tell you. The nanny can take the 1 year old to activities meant for the 4 year old. At 4, most organized classes and activities are set up where the child is able to participate without much adult interaction except for the teacher. I do them when my DD and now I mostly am there to watch and not participate. Many moms bring their younger children and they play around in the back.



~ Maggie

[littlemizflava]

i can manage with my ds 19m 27lb and my 6 year old on the bus. i 99% of the time dont use the stroller just my buckle mei tie. when i use my stroller i do it both ways put my ds in a carrier and fold the stroller or leave him in it. i also live outside of toronto i use the viva or the yrt. when i am out and about i use ttc and mississauga transit. also when i was a nanny i did take my charges on the public transit because i dont drive.
my dd could walk 3km at 3 years we would take the bus to the mall and walking around there and then walk home.
if she really dont like to go out then what about setting up options for her things to do with them around the house and yard? maybe a routine written out. if there is a mall or stores (they could go to and walk around) or even a coffee shop she could walk to and have a drink(the kids would get out of the house, have the fresh air, kill some energy and maybe get a treat)

[mamatowill]

I am wondering if to help with the bus situation if you could get one of those cheap umbrella strollers which are easy to fold. Some of them have a basket and awning. I was able to close it one handed all the time. Have you taken the bus with a stroller and your DH so that you know for sure that it has to be folded up? On the bus in Ottawa I never had to fold it up and it was not difficult to get on and off. Also my DS's careprovider used to safely take 5 children for long walks along busy roads. The youngest two children were in the stroller and the older ones walked with her and my DS was just over 2 when he had to leave the stroller and walk. It is doable. Also about programs at the community centre ask yourself what you would do if you were SAHMing and wanted to take your children to a program. What would you do? Have you tried calling and asking the places what other parents do because I am sure that this is not just a problem for you.

[BabyA'sMom]

I'll chime in and tell you my thoughts. First, I'd go get a nanny cam and record the nanny doing her thing with the kids and record your own family on the weekend. Sometimes seeing the kids and caregivers in both situations (during weekdays and weekend) will give you a good indication of baseline behavior.

My first guess was that nanny is overwhelmed. A very active 1 year old and a 4 year old who has a hard time accepting direction can be exhausting. Keep in mind that this nanny's references indicated she isn't great at setting limits. So what does she do? She keeps to safety and harmony by giving the older kid whatever he wants and by limiting the llttle kid's opportunity to harm himself. In her mind, if she spends her time struggling with the older kid, the younger one could sneak off and stick stuff in the wall outlets or get stuck in the vent.

As far as the TV goes, unplugging it will not address the basic issue of the older kid needing to buy into the idea of someone else calling the shots. If the parents aren't in charge, no nanny will be, either. Having an incentive system for following the rules and routine of the house and having a clear structure for setting up the rules and tracking whether or not they're followed is needed. That way the care provider can report back the behavior and the system of rewards and consequences will address it.

I'm saying this because you could go through a number of nannies if there is problem behavior that is hard to manage. There's negative impact on kids every time the care provider is switched. Furthermore, problem behavior becomes more ingrained for each person that doesn't successfully deal with it.
Also keep in mind that the transition to school will be hellish if the ability to accept authority and follow rules isn't in place.

All of that begins in the home with the parents, not just the caregiver.

Hope this helps, and write back with how things are going.

[cak1207]

Originally Posted by PregnantMomma20

I would reccommend interviewing someone new, without the nanny knowing (or she will slack even more) and then when you have a replacement who can start (say on a monday) on that friday, let the nanny know you no longer need her services.

This is wrong. On more than one level. You should give notice! Most people get at least 2 weeks notice. I'm a nanny and can tell you that would not be fun. Especially if you have to pay rent and bills and car payments and suddenly you had no job!! Please DO NOT do this to someone. Give her 2 weeks at least!

On the OP, I agree with PP's. If she feel's like shes stuck that is no fun! I would definately sit down with her and schedule a week out for her. Enroll the older child in some activities. In the summer there is always something to find. I would take my kiddos to the library who had great programs for both ages! They brought animals in and let them have a petting zoo, story time, a clown, all kinds of stuff. You need to find a way she can get out. Maybe she can have a baby carrier so she can carry the little one and hold hands with the 4 year old. I know that when I worked for a family I was not allowed to leave I almost went insane!!!
I would also go with the PP about helping make the house easier. Babygating the kitchen so the little one can't get in the freezer. Set up the table, get rid of the bee nest! Yes nanny's can handle a 4 yr old and one year old. I think if you sit down with her and tell her you think the kids needs more stimulation and you don't want her to go stir crazy in the house. Then plan some things. Get some books for some crafts she can do with the children. I had a big bucket full of markers, crayons and craft things. We'd pull out the bucket and make something for the parents. Good luck to you. It can be done. But if you do decide it's not working please give her notice.

[mamasaurus]

Originally Posted by cak1207

This is wrong. On more than one level. You should give notice! Most people get at least 2 weeks notice. I'm a nanny and can tell you that would not be fun. Especially if you have to pay rent and bills and car payments and suddenly you had no job!! Please DO NOT do this to someone. Give her 2 weeks at least!

Or, 2 weeks severance in lieu of notice. If you have the new nanny lined up and want to be nice to the current nanny.

[cak1207]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

Or, 2 weeks severance in lieu of notice. If you have the new nanny lined up and want to be nice to the current nanny.

Exactly. Don't just fire her on a friday. Two weeks severance or Two weeks notice.

[SheepNumber97245]

i think i saw an episode of Oprah... or maybe it was Montel, i can't remember... anyway, the expert said, "If you're even wondering if you should get a camera... that's a pretty good indication you need a new caretaker."

If you're momness is telling you something's wrong, then something's wrong.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by girlstar808

I am not a newbie to forums and over the years I realize my judgment of the situation will be clouded by what others have posted or repeated. Of course, I read the OP's posts because she added to the story... that's how I roll when it comes to these advice posts.

I hope you (OP) make the right decision.

In most cases, that's fine, but there were details from other posts (mine) that included details the OP left out but put in other forums here. It included important info about the situation that the OP omitted. I understand that others' comments cloud your judgment, but in this case, it left you with only a partial story.

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by monkeybum

T

I actually called the agency who placed her and when they heard about the earphones, they said they consider that grounds for immediate dismissal and that they will replace her free of charge. . I said I wanted to try to work with her first as I do think she'd be better with just the 1 year old if they are able to do some programs, and compared to the other nanny's we interviewed, (who were scaaaaary) she does follow our AP'ing and my 1 year old reeeeally likes her. So maybe there is a happy medium. I dunno....
.

Twice you came and if I read correctly, each time you had to call her name SIX times. (once the ear buds, once the cell phone) What if you had been a child calling for help ONCE. Or a child coughing or choking, God forbid. I think she is more of a safety risk than others are noticing. She is not listening and that isn't ok.

And if someone is that lax about paying attention, I woudn't let them take my kid on public transportation either!