Suzuki Mamas Tribe - Page 14

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by tiffani

My daughter really enjoys lessons, does not want to quit playing violin, but NEVER EVER wants to practice. ever. I'm wondering if we should reinstate the reward system that we had for twinkle,

I'm not one for rewards, but I do understand that sometimes putting in the time and the work necessary to get over a plateau requires something more than just instrinsic motivation. I've found that objective, tangible measurement of the work is often enough and that rewards aren't required. Some examples of ways to illustrate work in tangible ways:

Light a candle at the beginning of each practice session, blowing it out at the end. Tiny slender tapers are the most gratifying. Marking off inches and half-inches can make it more fun and encourage a child to self-challenge. See how soon she can do a "candle's worth" of practicing.

Put a hundred beans in a jar and have an empty jar to put beside it. Every time she plays a review piece, move a bean into the empty jar. Watch it fill up and she'll see all the work she's doing. You can do the same thing with a chart made on paper -- colour in a square every time she does something.

Find 9 places or positions she can practice in around your home (I usually do repetitions to match age -- you could choose less). Things like standing on the kitchen stool, standing in the bathtub, kneeling on the floor, on the deck, facing into the corner of the living room, standing on left leg, standing on right leg, sticking out tongue, etc. ... and play anything that requires repetitions in all those different ways.

Coin toss. Ten pennies (or more, or less, depending on how ambitious she's feeling that day). She picks heads or tails. Toss first penny. If she wins the toss she gets to choose what to practice -- anything! It could be something really simple like "make a perfect bowhold three times" or "sing Twinkle Theme using the note-names." Once she's done that task, set the penny somewhere. Toss the next penny. When you win you can choose one of the lesson assignments, or something you've noticed that you think could be worked on. As you work through the pennies, line them up so that she can see the work she's done, and know how much is left.

*******************

When a child loves her lessons but hates her practicing, it's worth asking yourself "how can I make practicing more like the lesson?" Sure, a lot of the difference in attitude comes from the difference in relationships, but I still think it's worth examining what's working so well about lessons and trying to do more of that at home. I find that running a mental camcorder while I'm working with my child is helpful -- because I usually discover that I'm much more demanding and negative, and much less appreciative, than the teacher. A friend of mine, Stephanie Judy, once put together a "Parent's Daily Dozen" checklist / self-evaluation survey as a reminder to parents about how much of a role they have in creating an enjoyable practicing regimen. Here is a bare-bones version of it:

1. Listening: I played the recording ____ times today.
2. Setting a time: We agreed in advance on a time for today’s practice.
3. Preparing: I prepared for today’s practice.
4. Initiating the practice: I gave my child warning before practice time.
5. “Bracketing” the practice: We began/ended our practice with a bow.
6. Parent’s priority: I gave our practice time a high priority.
7. Encouragement: I expressed sincere appreciation for my child’s efforts.
8. Positive environment: I created a positive environment for practicing.
9. Giving choices: My child made choices about how/what to practice.
10. Tonalization: Our practice included tonalization.
11. Review: Our practice included review (P = partial, C = complete).
12. Ending the practice: We ended the practice on a positive note.
PARENT’S SUMMARY: What was today’s practice like?
STUDENT’S SUMMARY: How did your practice partner do today?
STUDENT’S SUMMARY: How did you do today?

It's a useful reminder for me, even after all these years. I find that number 12 is the most magical one of all. If, for even two or three days, I can somehow make the practicing end with giggles and smiles, doing whatever is necessary to make that happen, resistance vanishes.

Hope that helps!

Miranda

[Stacymom]

Miranda, those are awesom ideas. Thanks!

And re: upsizing instruments. Can I just say ugh! We're in the process of moving from a 1/8 to a 1/4, and although I worked in music retail for 10 years and know the business inside and out, I still don't like the process! We found 1/4 Pygmalius that we like, but I'm hating the bow that we have with it. My daughter is starting 3rd Seitz in Bk 4, and working on spicatto, etc, and the bow is terrible! Its just really, really hard to make a trip to the music store with three littles in tow...

I too agree about getting the best instrument possible for their size. Its so important for tone development! My dd is 7, and when we started looking at instruments this time around, I knew we had to look at everything because she'll be playing Bach Double and beyond on this violin!

Bekka, I've never tried the Eva Pirazzis on a fractional violin- I didn't even know that was a possiblity! I loved the Pirazzis on my violin, but found I couldn't justify the expense. They also seemed to take forever to break in, and didn't have that long of a life! I may try them on dd's new violin though to help with some of the brightness. My favorite all time string when I was in college and playing 8 or so hours a day was the Corelli Alliance, but again at $100 a pop on a college student's budget and replacing them every 2-3 months? Ouch. Problem is, they don't make em anymore.

About the E String whistle: two different things to try. First off, make sure the arm weight is solidly on the E string when you change strings. If you find a whistle consistently, try dropping the bow arm down more when you switch to the E string and that may help. The other thing that may help is trying a wound E string rather than a steel one. My favorite is the Eudoxa Wound E (not the Eudoxa gold). My violin is very prone to E string whistles, and the heavier gauge of the wound E helps it sing a little better.

(I should have multiquoted this message...)

Tiffani, has your teacher introduced anything other than Suzuki music at lessons? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard Suzuki teacher. But I find that especially with older beginners, the early Book 1 songs sound and feel a lot like "baby songs" to the kids, and its hard to get them motivated. A few well-placed fiddle songs or something like it might do wonders at this point. I think reading music is also a really good idea. But as a teacher, I would have a hard time teaching a student from week to week who wasn't practicing. Its frustrating for the teacher and the student to do the same lesson over and over again because the student isn't practicing at home.

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I'm not one for rewards, but I do understand that sometimes putting in the time and the work necessary to get over a plateau requires something more than just instrinsic motivation. I've found that objective, tangible measurement of the work is often enough and that rewards aren't required.

I actually think that's the magic in the sticker chart, much more than the reward at the end -- she could see her progress, and be proud of how much she was accomplishing. thank you so much for the ideas, though, those are great!!!!

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I still think it's worth examining what's working so well about lessons and trying to do more of that at home.

a thousand thank you's, this is so obvious but I totally missed it -- I've been sort of barking at her to practice, thinking that I needed to stay out of the process as much as possible (as much as you can with suzuki) but I need to do the opposite, I need to "connect before I direct" just like anything else in parenting... thanks for the reminder!

Originally Posted by Stacymom

Tiffani, has your teacher introduced anything other than Suzuki music at lessons? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard Suzuki teacher. But I find that especially with older beginners, the early Book 1 songs sound and feel a lot like "baby songs" to the kids, and its hard to get them motivated. A few well-placed fiddle songs or something like it might do wonders at this point. I think reading music is also a really good idea. But as a teacher, I would have a hard time teaching a student from week to week who wasn't practicing. Its frustrating for the teacher and the student to do the same lesson over and over again because the student isn't practicing at home.

she hasn't introduced anything else, and that might be helpful, but I think it's pretty obvious that lucy isn't putting in the time to practice. It is frustrating for all of us, I think -- part of the issue is the lack of listening (you caught us Bekka! ) as we couldn't get the disk for a while, and could only listen to it on the computer, so it wasn't that handy... then we had a string of illness, so practice wasn't happening... yada yada yada, I think we're all sick to death of being stuck in this rut, but I'm so glad I found this thread, it's been super helpful, and I feel like I have some great ideas to put into action...

feeling much better, thanks!

[Bekka]

Originally Posted by tiffani

I think -- part of the issue is the lack of listening (you caught us Bekka! ) as we couldn't get the disk for a while, and could only listen to it on the computer, so it wasn't that handy...

Here are some thoughts for making listening easier. If a listening device for your dd is in your budget, you might do that. We got dd a CD player when she was only 5 years old to give her ownership of the listening, and burned a copy of whichever CD she was on. Now she has a little MP3 player--not a fancy one, it only holds 2 GB worth of files (boy that looks strange--the first computer I had was a 40 MB harddrive and it wasn't that old ...).

Put a CD in your car. Listen while going places (captive audience). If you have more than one CD thing in your tray (we have 3 at our house) in your stereo (OK, we're old school), then designate 1 as the Suzuki CD. Permanently.

I will say that our teacher always says "all you have to do is push the button." Well, you have to set it up to be easy to push the button--find the CD, maybe the baby is eating the case, threw up on it, pulled it out of the CD rack, or whatever. Maybe it melted in the car. So set yourself up for success. (Our violin teachers only have 1 little baby right now ...).

DH is a copyright fanatic, and insists on "doing things legally." So I'm sure this is right--if you buy a CD, you can legally make copies for your own personal use. You can also copy songs off it to save to your MP3 player. This is all legal under copyright law.

[Bekka]

Oh, and I loved this way of practicing--when dd was about 6 and having huge motivation issues, a favorite way of doing practice was to play pretend--she was the travelling minstrel and travelled all around the country playing to different audiences. So she dressed up like a minstrel and she played in England (kitchen), France (LR), etc.

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by Bekka

Put a CD in your car. Listen while going places (captive audience).

one more reason why we rarely listen to the CD, we don't have a CD player in our car, or any MP3/ipods, what have you... we bought lucy a portable cd player, but then our CD burner went out on our computer (we're in new zealand, and the suzuki CD's are about $50, so our teacher lent us hers to copy , so we couldn't burn the disk for the longest time. lots of little things have been standing in the way of the listening, but we're remedying that currently... we're only in NZ for a year or so, we're leasing our car (so we're not going to add a CD player) don't have a good stereo to listen on, etc... not excuses so much as small obstacles

Originally Posted by Bekka

Oh, and I loved this way of practicing--when dd was about 6 and having huge motivation issues, a favorite way of doing practice was to play pretend--she was the travelling minstrel and travelled all around the country playing to different audiences. So she dressed up like a minstrel and she played in England (kitchen), France (LR), etc.

that is such a great idea, especially for my geography/history hound of a daughter!

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by tiffani

lots of little things have been standing in the way of the listening, but we're remedying that currently...

Good for you! It's important to have the big picture and to see past the little things.

I have a student who had lots of little things standing in the way of his listening. He was getting only a fraction of the benefit from the lessons that he should have been getting due to lack of listening. When I pointed out to his family that they'd been paying for months of $20 lessons and getting $5 of benefit due to lack of listening they realized that dropping the $80 on a small-capacity iPod shuffle was actually a very good investment. It's so easy to think of listening as an "extra" rather than as an integral part of the music learning. Comparing it directly to lessons in terms of cost and benefit can be eye-opening.

Miranda

[tiffani]

I think I just figured out what we'll be getting lucy for her birthday!

[Malva]

I'll chime in too.

Originally Posted by tiffani

Beginning Suzuki kid here -- just started a couple of months ago at the age of 9, and we LOVE her teacher, she's wonderful. My daughter really enjoys lessons, does not want to quit playing violin, but NEVER EVER wants to practice. ever.

My almost 10yo dd started piano last year with a Suzuki-inspired teacher.

She doesn't have all the years of musical practice the other kids have so I worked really hard at establishing a routine so that practicing can become part of her day, every day. Just something that is done.

So we picked a time where she could have my undivided attention (after her brother goes to bed at night, in our case) and I make sure to really protect that time slot. Every night, I remind her: We'll do piano when I come back down. When I come back down, the grumbling is generally minimal and once at the piano, she's fine.

I think she likes the special time with me. I sit with her and check things off on her practice sheet, count the reps, help her focus on whatever her teacher emphasized at the last lesson, point out stuff, sing the notes, clap the beat, whatever she needs me to.

Since she's new, I feel she needs help with both getting to practice everyday and what to do during that practice time to progress. Left to herself, it wouldn't be very effective.

If we don't really have time one day, we still sit at the piano and run through most of the stuff once. Just to help cement the routine.

Hope it helps!

[ShanaT]

Listening

I was getting a lot of resistance to listening to CD 1 daily, so I got CDs 2 through 4 and mixed them up into a playlist on my ipod, threw in a couple "fiddle tunes" that he likes and we listen to it through the day.

[Juuulie]

Originally Posted by Malva

She doesn't have all the years of musical practice the other kids have so I worked really hard at establishing a routine so that practicing can become part of her day, every day. Just something that is done.

So we picked a time where she could have my undivided attention (after her brother goes to bed at night, in our case) and I make sure to really protect that time slot. Every night, I remind her: We'll do piano when I come back down. When I come back down, the grumbling is generally minimal and once at the piano, she's fine.

I think she likes the special time with me. I sit with her and check things off on her practice sheet, count the reps, help her focus on whatever her teacher emphasized at the last lesson, point out stuff, sing the notes, clap the beat, whatever she needs me to.

Since she's new, I feel she needs help with both getting to practice everyday and what to do during that practice time to progress. Left to herself, it wouldn't be very effective.

My 10yo has been playing for four years now and I still do all those things with her. :-)

[Juuulie]

Originally Posted by ShanaT

I was getting a lot of resistance to listening to CD 1 daily, so I got CDs 2 through 4 and mixed them up into a playlist on my ipod, threw in a couple "fiddle tunes" that he likes and we listen to it through the day.

We had a similar problem!

I've been gradually compiling an "alternative" playlist of other versions of Suzuki songs that we include in our rotation. Some of our favorites are Yo Yo Ma's Bach Bourree, Perlman's Seitz 2/3, Anne-Sophie Mutter's Minuet in G, and Gabe Bolkosky's jazz improv versons of Humoresque and Gavotte in g minor. DD and I listened to several orchestra recordings of Gavotte in D. Each treated the grace notes very differently, so she picked the one she liked best and got a little lesson in musicology at the same time. :-)

If anyone has suggestions for other alternate versions of the repertoire I'd love to hear them!

[megincl]

Favorite Metronomes?

We need to get a metronome, and I'm wondering if folks around here have particular ones they like. If so, can you share why?

Thanks!

[Bekka]

You can find an online metronome and A for tuning for free. Can't remember the links, but you can google it.

I have an antique (Grandma's) tick tock metronome. These are GREAT, they're around $100 new. Had no idea.

We have a small metronome that dh had that's credit card sized, but thicker. These are probably $12 or something.

For string instruments, getting a metronome that has an A=440 is very, very helpful. We like ours, but it's not "favorite." We'd be happy with another as well. A good electronic metronome is like $40. Just be prepared to pay it--it's a good tool that will last a long time.

You can even get the tuning A to be adjustable--some orchestra directors like A=442 or something like that. Ours adjusts from like 438 to 446.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by megincl

We need to get a metronome, and I'm wondering if folks around here have particular ones they like. If so, can you share why?

We have a ton of metronomes in this family, including several expensive ones. We've bought them like crazy to support multiple kids practicing at multiple times, their travel, one for the piano room, one for my teaching studio, etc..

On the high end we like the Boss Dr. Beat (very complicated beat patterns and other features) and Korg (much simpler) metronomes, especially the models that are advertised as being loud. A full-sized violin can drown out smaller metronomes. Having one with a strong visual prompt helps, but isn't always enough. The credit-card sized ones are nice and portable but are rarely loud enough to be heard over a violin. For inexpensive metronomes we've found the Sabine Zipbeat to be a good value ... and loud enough most of the time, though it cannot be heard over string quartets.

Miranda

[cranberry99]

Hi. I am a violinist trying to learn viola. I have a daughter who is 2 3/4 and whenever she sees me play she says, "I want (and then does the hand motions for violin)!" My mother is an old-school Suzuki teacher, and she wants me to make her a cardboard violin. I took the first Suzuki book from Ronda Cole and she teaches a totally different style. She emphasizes waiting longer until the child is ready for a real violin. I would love to have a violin for her to play, but she is not ready for a real instrument. I'm not sure if a cardboard violin would satisfy her, and I don't have the tools to create a bow to go with a cardboard violin. I'm not sure which teaching methodology I agree with. I've heard lots of newer teachers saying that they were happy they didn't start with the cardboard one, but I have no experience with this myself. Every day (if I leave my case where she can get into it) she will undo my case and take the violin and bow out and start playing the violin lying down on the ground, actually producing sound. Any opinions out there? Also, do you know of any good links to pre-twinkle activites on the web? Thanks

[Bekka]

Listening, Rhythm activities, singing on pitch (mimicking), Simon Says (do as I do) are all good pretwinkle activities 2-4 year olds love.

Can't you do a good bowhold on a stick? When dd started (with her cardboard violin) she was "teaching dd2" violin with 2 sticks. She wanted to play at 2; we waited until 3. She did start with an (old school) cardboard violin; when we moved here her current teachers do not start beginners on a cardboard violin. However they start 3 yo's on a wooden violin. I rented an "economy violin" for ds who tried for a few months when he was 4; it turned out that he wasn't ready then. He'll be 6 in Dec. and we're looking at guitar programs/options, now.

[moominmamma]

I think that a lot of the problems teachers run into with cardboard violins has to do with grand expectations meeting up with the reality of being merely given a prop, not an instrument. The dissatisfaction of being given a prop is far more likely, IMO, if the child is over the age of 4, and if there is the commencement of formal lessons which has led the child (+/- parent) to believe the child will be "learning to play the violin."

My then-2yo was perfectly happy with a cardboard violin and dowel -- just as she was at that age perfectly happy with a stuffed bunny and not a real one. Her instruction began informally at home, and she was under no illusions that she was going to be playing Twinkles soon; she just wanted to feel like she was beginning to play-act the sort of skills she could see her family engaging in.

After about 6 months she moved onto a real violin. By that point she had excellent basic posture, good rhythmic skills, and was eager to do skill-oriented diligent daily practicing. She was no longer satisfied with a box, but she had shown herself to be more than ready for a real instrument.

My first three kids taught me that Ronda Cole is right -- that it's best to wait until 4 or 5, because you can then move more efficiently through the basics. My youngest child taught me that there is no right or wrong about any of this -- it depends on the child, the parent and the particular situation.

I believe Shar and YMOnline sell inexpensive "boxolin" type things that come with a bowstick w/frog. A dowel worked for us, though.

Miranda

[Bekka]

Of course, when your 3 year old is at the group class with her box violin and says, "but where's the E string on MY violin!" Everyone has a wonderful chuckle and laugh, and absolute "aww" moment for all the parents.

For us, a box violin gave dd1 a few more months to grow, too, b/c she was a very small 3. She started on a 1/32nd real violin! Looks like a toy (sounds like a toy ...). From time to time the kids get out the box violins (I had one too) and foamalin and pretend to to do violin lessons, although dd1 is the only string player at this point.

[HotMama]

Hi all, my dd turned seven last June, and has been playing violin since 4 1/2, with an 8 month break at five. She's recently zoomed through the book 1 minuets, then "forgot" them, got stressed about starting first grade or something, so now I've banished the minuets for one week to enjoy review...otherwise I was ready to quit/or take a long break. It was great reading earlier in this thread about being grateful to parents for torturing them through daily practice. We'll see ; ) She's not terribly focused, especially with a distracting younger sister around. She also wants to switch to cello, but when meeting the cello teacher at a local play-in, she wanted to stay with her regular teacher. When should we switch? Fourth grade is when they get strings at school (we're at a Waldorf school)>
Her sister is focused, and wants a violin badly. I'm going to bring down a box violin we have in the attic, after reading about playing with the rythyms with youngers here. She's been singing the Suzuki songs since 8 months old, and loves counting/math type things, so I imagine she may take to it well. I'm not ready for practice with two, so I'm holding off on lessons for another year or so.
Thanks for starting this tribe! I look forward to reading the rest of the thread!