Suzuki Mamas Tribe - Page 16

[HotMama]

Originally Posted by ecstaticmama24

Hey Mamas! I love music and I'm so excited that my girl is in piano, I hope she loves it too! I'm almost considering taking lessons again. Anyone take lessons with their little ones?

I've been learning violin with dd...I'm getting ready to finish book 2, along with a bunch of other music thrown in from an ensemble class, and fiddle tunes. I love playing, but it is way tricky to find practice time for me! And, next year my 3 year old will begin (she's chomping at the bit now ; )

[G-love]

already frustrated!

Hi everyone,
I have LOVED reading through all the posts here; they have really inspired me.
My 4 yo DD just started cello this summer, and we're already hitting a wall! Well, I am, maybe because I went through this same situation with my 8 yo DS on violin. Basically when we practice, I am always saying, "let me help you with that bowhold like the teacher said I should", or "I'll do the bowing and you do the fingers", or correcting her (too much for a 4 yo, I know!), or making her do things again if they're not right. She gets really mad and wants to do everything all by herself, hates having me suggest anything, etc. She would be happiest just sawing away on the C string... How do I gently get her technique to improve without ruining our relationship and without being a control freak? I really think my frustration with my son was NOT good for our relationship (or for his relationship with violin, but that's another story). I really can't take another 4 years of constant struggle!!!!! (I know it'll get better, but I can't see past this right now!)
TIA,
Genevieve

[moominmamma]

Genevieve, how about taking turns directing the practice? We play a game with coins. My dd chooses heads or tails. She also decides how many coins to use. Let's say she chooses 8 coins and heads. We lay the eight out on a shelf. I pick up the first one and flip it. If it's heads, she chooses what to do. She might say "I'm going to do a made-up song" and scrub away. Fine. When she's done, she bows and I applaud. Then we put that 'used' coin in a separate pile, get a new one and flip that one. If it's heads she gets to choose again. But if it's tails, I get to choose. "Five beautiful bow-holds!" or "play Twinkle rhythm C on the D-string three times with big tone" or something like that. And so on, flipping coins and making our respective choices until all eight coins are used up.

I find that because this makes the work to be done and the work already done tangible (we can look at the coins and see) my child feels much more in control and proud of her work. Because the random coin toss decides what type of work (mom-work or kid-work) gets done, she can feel annoyed at the coins, rather than at me. And because she is given full autonomy over specific parts of the practice session, to play the role of practice coach to herself, as time goes on she actually begins to make productive choices of her own. Finally, it's very helpful to both of us that there are particular parts of the practice session where I am not allowed to guide and correct and direct. I become more aware of how reflexively I correct and redirect -- and my child appreciates the little breaks from parental control.

Hope that helps!

Miranda

[dancingmama]

Wow, Miranda -- what a wonderful idea!!! Thank you so much for posting it. My 7 year old is doing great at the moment, but my extremely independent almost 4 year-old.... it's a struggle. I think the coin toss idea will help a ton. Thanks for sharing it!

[Juuulie]

That IS a great idea! I can hardly wait to try it with my 6yo. We have been using folded slips of paper -- each one has a particular task on it, such as "do one Up Like a Rocket," along with a couple of funny surprises like "hug Mom" or "do 5 pushups." He really likes these, especially when I rotate different surprises in and out, but we are already getting to the stage where he doesn't want me telling him what to do. I think he will love the coin toss!

I am also experimenting with asking HIM whether he managed to, say, maintain his bowhold all the way to the end of Up Like a Rocket, rather than me telling him whether or not he did. I praise him to high heaven if he is honest in his self-assessment, and I let the attempt "count" even if his bowhold wasn't great.

[G-love]

Thanks so much for the suggestion, Miranda! I also went back and printed out your parent checklist, which is amazing!
We started with a bow today, did 6 coins, and, you're totally right, I was able to let go for "her turns" and just let her do whatever, then I did get a turn to gently guide the bow for some rhythms, and sort of fix what I saw going on during her turns. It was SO much more positive than before! Maybe I'll try 8 coins with my son later tonight!!!!!
Genevieve

[Bekka]

too late for Stacymom?

Hi,
sorry I didn't respond to your post upthread. I haven't checked in over here for a while b/c I've been elsewhere, and also trying to cut down online time. Have things evened out a little bit with dd's practice?

Here are a few thoughts: when dd1 was 7 she was in mid book 2. She had some real issues about practice motivation, and any change took a LONG time to adjust to--violin size, school starting, etc. Like I needed to give it a month to get through.

Are you doing ALL of the practice at once? We haven't had good results with that forever and ever. If she can do say, 45 mins, then do that much in the morning. Do you teach all afternoon until bedtime? Is it possible to let her take charge of say, 15-30 min of practice? Often dd started rebelling a LOT when she needed another level of autonomy. I know that autonomy seems like the antithesis of Suzuki, but aren't we working toward that eventually?

DD needed "fun" even when we were working on book 2 and book 3 pieces, so we still did the funny games. One that worked well for us was a card game--we had K (dd), M(mom), and W (wild). We made about 5 cards of each to make a big deck. We made a big list of all the assignment items for the week, and then shuffle the deck. She would draw a card. If K was on there, then she would pick which thing off the list to play. If M was on there, I would pick which thing off the list to play. If W was on there, she could play ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Sometimes I had to leave the room as she screeched like a police car or whatever, sometimes she improvised, sometimes she fiddled some stuff.

We also experimented with a lot of different practice schedules. Sometimes I made up a trivia game, where I made up questions about each piece/assignment, including info about composers or whatever, or riddles to guess the title or whatever. She loves figuring things out, so this worked for us. She LOVED these.

Interestingly, it wasn't until I was about 10 1/2 that I took responsibility for my own music practice. This has been a fabulous year as far as dd taking responsibility (mostly) for her practice (she just turned 11). She disappears into the basement, and I sometimes hear and often don't and we get to the lesson and her teacher says, "do you have X prepared?" and she says YES! I have no idea. She needs reminders, and sometimes a little push to go get started, but that is normal for her personality.

(She did not make the final cut for the regional youth orchestra, and we are interested in why, but she considered the audition experience a "good experience for learning," and is trying to add sightreading to her practice to prepare.)

When things are going terrible, we scrap the assignments for the week and just review old stuff that is fun. Or play anything she wants by ear. Even just getting her to play if she's in a serious funk may keep things moving for a while until she can get back on track.

[Bekka]

Suggestions from anyone for what to do to practice sightreading? We have quite a bit of intermediate level flute music (mine), advanced clarinet music (dh), beginning organ music (mine), and med to adv piano music. Plus a bunch of beginning piano stuff and whatever stuff her teachers have assigned:

rhythm training
scale book
etudes (for sightreading and music reading practice)
assigned Suzuki pieces
tonalization
Study list for group class

What should we use for more sightreading practice, like 5x per week? Any ideas? Are there any books of good, fun violin music to get? Or for any C instrument.

[megincl]

Looking for help learning advanced songs

Hi Folks,

DS (6yo) is in the midst of book 3 (cello), and I'm finding it quite a struggle to help him learn new songs. Generally, our teachers goes over tricky points in the lesson and then we are sent home to learn some/all of the piece. We're just starting Beethoven's Minuet in G. On the first half page, there are 13 shifts (oh the joy of cello!). I don't know how to do all the "instructing" to help DS get all of the notes, the shifts, the slurs, the bowings. I'm saying crazy things like "4th position first finger D string" and we're just plodding along note by note. And him having the tune in our head from listening even throws us off sometimes because he'll keep playing, but he'll have the wrong position, bowing, etc.

I'm going a bit crazy!!!!!! (clearly!). I'm feeling like note reading would be a huge help here. Thoughts? On any of this (not just the note reading)?

I think I'll call his teacher today, too.

Thanks!
megin

[Bekka]

Megin,
I'm surprised he hasn't started reading yet, tbh. In both programs that dd has been in, they started reading by early book 2. Although he's book 3 and only 6 yo, so does he read regular language yet?

Can you shorten the assignment to only 4 measures? Maybe do shorter assignments for a couple of weeks to have successful practices?

[megincl]

Thanks, Bekka. Yes, he's really just starting to read some easy books, and that's pretty recent, so it does seem okay that he has yet to learn to read music, but I do feel it has to come soon. I'm talking to his teacher on the phone tonight about it.

We've been working REALLY small chunks of pieces in our practice. That has worked okay, but it's hard to see/feel the whole piece when it's so broken down.

Luckily, this frustration with learning new pieces is paired with polishing up two others for a recital, and those are sounding quite good.

Still searching, though, for the right way to go about this....

megin

[Bekka]

I have to go but I just remembered that our teachers have the kids SING the parts that they aren't playing yet, and then play the notes they are playing, then sing some more. Our studio is very, very into singing first.

[ebethmom]

Hi Suzuki folks! I have a question. Do your programs have Book Recitals when students finish a book? Our program has a tradition of Book recitals. The students pick 4 or 5 pieces from their "finished" book, and they are featured on a recital.

I've changed the format to Solo/Book/Group recital to add more variety (and to increase the audience size!). The combo approach is going well. We just had a recital tonight, and it flowed nicely.

I think I'm going to tweak my policy on the requirements for the Book recital. The other teachers in the program have had their students play the recital as soon as they finish the book. I'm finding that my students are still nervous about basics (notes, bowings, just getting through the piece). I realized recently that this is just too much pressure. So I think my students will need to be at least two or three pieces into the next book before we attempt a Book recital.

[Bekka]

nakking
Our program has 2 solo and 3 group concerts per year. Also each kid has to "graduate" every song in the book again as she's preparing to finish a level, but it's all done in the lesson. Usuallt takes 5-6 lessons to graduate a book.

[countryangels]

Thank you for this wonderful thread! I have a couple of questions.

What a GREAT thread! Thank you!

I was wondering where do you buy the different Suzuki books,
like Violin 1 & so on?
Does each book come with a CD?
Is there a complete set that you can buy, books with CD'S all the way through book 10?
What is the approx. cost involved?
Thank you in advance!
By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[RiverSky]

I order my books from Sharmusic.com . You can order just the book or the book with CD (which I always do). They also have a fantastic program for purchasing slightly blemished violins, which you can then trade in for full value later on, when you need a larger violin. I know several who have used them and have loved the quality of the violins they have received.

I have also found Suzuki violin books in local music stores (the kind that carry violins!).

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by ebethmom

Hi Suzuki folks! I have a question. Do your programs have Book Recitals when students finish a book? Our program has a tradition of Book recitals. The students pick 4 or 5 pieces from their "finished" book, and they are featured on a recital.

I've changed the format to Solo/Book/Group recital to add more variety (and to increase the audience size!). The combo approach is going well. We just had a recital tonight, and it flowed nicely.

I think I'm going to tweak my policy on the requirements for the Book recital. The other teachers in the program have had their students play the recital as soon as they finish the book. I'm finding that my students are still nervous about basics (notes, bowings, just getting through the piece). I realized recently that this is just too much pressure. So I think my students will need to be at least two or three pieces into the next book before we attempt a Book recital.

our program has book recitals. the student has to play EVERY song in the book (liek book 1 includes all the twinkle variations, and every song - 17 I think?) the students are generally 2 or 3 pieces into the next book.

[countryangels]

Thank you for your help!!

Originally Posted by RiverSky

I order my books from Sharmusic.com . You can order just the book or the book with CD (which I always do). They also have a fantastic program for purchasing slightly blemished violins, which you can then trade in for full value later on, when you need a larger violin. I know several who have used them and have loved the quality of the violins they have received.

I have also found Suzuki violin books in local music stores (the kind that carry violins!).

Should I assume when they say VOLUME 1 its Book 1 & so on, right ?
It seems that they have Book Volume 1 & then something that seems to be Book & CD Volume 1, it has the word Preucil (sp??) in the title or something close to that spelling....
Thank you so much!!
Have a nice evening!

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by ebethmom

Hi Suzuki folks! I have a question. Do your programs have Book Recitals when students finish a book? Our program has a tradition of Book recitals. The students pick 4 or 5 pieces from their "finished" book, and they are featured on a recital.

<snip>

I think I'm going to tweak my policy on the requirements for the Book recital. The other teachers in the program have had their students play the recital as soon as they finish the book. I'm finding that my students are still nervous about basics (notes, bowings, just getting through the piece). I realized recently that this is just too much pressure. So I think my students will need to be at least two or three pieces into the next book before we attempt a Book recital.

We don't do book recitals. I am very leary of doing anything that can promote competition, or anything that puts the focus more on moving through the repertoire than on the development of fine musicianship. In our program here we encourage students to reach well back in their repertoire for all performances and we have occasionally had recitals where everyone has to choose a piece from the first half of their repertoire. So a student in early Book 7 would have to choose a Book 1, 2 or 3 piece. The quality of performances is stunning on those recitals! So anyway, as you can imagine, I am in definite agreement with you about delaying Book Recitals until students are well beyond completion of that book.

Do you know Dr. Suzuki's rule for graduations? You had to have reached the repertoire level of the *next* graduation in order to graduate from the earlier level. So a student wouldn't be eligible for their Gossec Gavotte graduation until they had learned Bach Bourrée. They couldn't do Bach Bourrée until they had learned the next level (which I think was the Vivaldi g minor, after that the Bach a minor, then one of the Mozart concertos ... ?? I don't remember his graduation pieces, but there weren't many).

If we considered doing Book Recitals here I think we would follow a similar model. While moving through the next book with new-piece learning, you revisit the pieces of the previous book, polishing them up to a new level of mastery. Only once you've finished Book 2 would you hold your Book 1 recital.

Miranda

[Mary-Beth]

When my dd began book 2 we had a "graduation party" and she played several pieces in book 1 for the residents of a local nursing home and some close friends and family attended as well. We went back to our house afterward for some cake. It was fun! She had a lovely time. I think it was a chance to celebrate all her efforts and hard work.