Issue in English class - Page 6

[rightkindofme]

As a teacher I'm very ok with parents getting involved enough in their child's education to disapprove of a book. If a parent wanted to protest a book being taught they would have to go through the school board because which books are taught are decided for the whole district waaaaaay above my head.

It is worth considering how we (me, generic you) are trying to enforce our cultural values on the people around us. I am generically pro-sex education and very liberal/tolerant about homosexuality and queer rights and I don't mind rough behavior and even rougher language. BUT I don't think that I have the right to tell other people they have to agree with me. The first week of school every year I drive all of the kids (mostly Juniors, but I also teach Sophomores) nuts because they have to have extensive conversations about what "being respectful" means. I don't participate, they have to debate it out amongst themselves. It is usually pretty astounding for the kids because they realize how differently they all perceive "being respectful."

In my mind being respectful includes letting parents say, "I don't want my kid talking about 'x' subject in class" and then respecting the parent and not shaming the kid. In the very rare cases when I have had this happen I have talked to the parent about what sort of alternative project would be most appropriate. Often the parent agrees to read a similar sort of topic/book with their kid at home and then the kid and I discuss it one on one.

Parents shouldn't have to consent to just anything the school wants their kid to learn. That is abdicating responsibility as a parent.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by rightkindofme

Parents shouldn't have to consent to just anything the school wants their kid to learn. That is abdicating responsibility as a parent.

:

Your whole post was very well stated, RKOM!

dm

Ps. We also opted out of dd doing dissection last year, because dh and I feel that raising and killing animals for children to dissect in science is wrong. The school was happy to honor our request and find an alternative for our daughter.

[PregnantMomma20]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

:

Your whole post was very well stated, RKOM!

dm

Ps. We also opted out of dd doing dissection last year, because dh and I feel that raising and killing animals for children to dissect in science is wrong. The school was happy to honor our request and find an alternative for our daughter.

I begged my parents to opt me out of dissection.... and they were hesitant to do that but finally allowed me to, I don't see any similarities between dissecting animals and talking about an important teen issue such as rape. Dissection is nothing that will come back up in life, (when was the last time you saw a dead animal laying somewhere and decided to label it's parts?) it wont help my child be a less ignorant person, it wont educate my child about something they WILL encounter in life,(either personally or through a partner or friend), and it's not educating them to be a good citizen once they are an adult.

I could never imagine opting out of something that could potentially harm my child, especially if I don't even make an educated decision about the issue or just throw my arms up when I realize others do not have a problem with it. Ignorance is not bliss.



(I was a rape victim, and I still struggle with flashbacks and issues during sex sometimes even though it's been 6 years) what if my fiance had been naive towards rape? Would we be together? Probably not! There is a statistic I found that says 1 in 3 girls will be sexually assaulted before the age of 18. That's pretty scary.... and it's real. I know you might be thinking, "Oh my child's a boy, so I don't have to worry about this issue!" Actually, you do. Women aren't the only ones who get raped ( I know of 2 guys in my high school who got raped... it happens, just a lot less often) And also, what about your son's future wife? Future daughters? female friends? Classmates? Coworkers? And honestly, it could teach him the importance of not being the instigator to get what he wants and potentially rape someone.

*****( No... I am not saying just because he's opted out of the reading of the book he will go rape someone, I am saying that by not being educated as to what rape is,the different "kinds of rape", or how it effects the victim involved, he could easily make a bad decision. I highly doubt guys who date rape girls are truly thinking they are raping their victims, I'm all most certain they are just thinking they are giving her a little "fun" pressure, or that they are the only thinking about themselves and the fact that they have a hard on and cant really think rationally (lets be real now, we all have been there or had a friend there at one point) *****

If as a country, we came together and awknowledged that rape is a serious problem in America, and start educating people and taking action against it, I know the statistics will go down. Why not educate your children about such an important issue that one day will leave them voting on laws and issues that will effect how rape is punished, handled, or what the definition of rape is? Covering your child's eyes and protecting them only gets them so far in life.

[dharmamama]

Well, I was referring to this:

Parents shouldn't have to consent to just anything the school wants their kid to learn. That is abdicating responsibility as a parent.

I wasn't equating dissection to rape. I was agreeing that

Parents shouldn't have to consent to just anything the school wants their kid to learn.

dm

[flapjack]

Maybe not, but a parent has a moral responsibility to the rest of society to impart some basic moral teachings- don't steal, etc. In our house, the use and abuse of personal power is a big deal, and we do talk about it a lot. It sounds like the OP is trying to defer this conversation because it's developmentally inappropriate- for some kids round by me, 14 is far too late because they've been sexually active for some time. That's the only justification for schools heavy-handed involvement-that some parents aren't giving the kind of loving guidance necessary.

[rightkindofme]

Originally Posted by flapjack

Maybe not, but a parent has a moral responsibility to the rest of society to impart some basic moral teachings- don't steal, etc. In our house, the use and abuse of personal power is a big deal, and we do talk about it a lot. It sounds like the OP is trying to defer this conversation because it's developmentally inappropriate- for some kids round by me, 14 is far too late because they've been sexually active for some time. That's the only justification for schools heavy-handed involvement-that some parents aren't giving the kind of loving guidance necessary.

Most of the parents who are uninvolved and don't teach their kids stuff at home are not going to go through the trouble of protesting a book. The parents who protest stuff at school tend to have reasons for their protests and they talk to their kids. Do I always agree with their motives and ways of believing? Hell no, but I don't get to tell people what to believe.

And honestly having taught in public schools has convinced me that my kids won't be attending public school because I don't want people who are so completely apathetic and uncaring in charge of the education of my children. I worked my butt off; many of my coworkers barely showed up for the required hours and complained about any extra work. There were a few teachers in my department where I wouldn't want to have my kids sit through their version of talking about rape or sexual assault.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by rightkindofme

There were a few teachers in my department where I wouldn't want to have my kids sit through their version of talking about rape or sexual assault.

Yes.

My daughter was being bullied in the classroom of a clueless first-year teacher who was 22 years old.

Her advice to my daughter?

"Sit in the back of the class so that the bullies don't see you."

Um ... yeah. I'd definitely want that teacher educating my kid about sensitive matters or facilitating group discussions about rape and sexual assault.

And I'm not saying that I'd opt out of the book that the OP mentioned. But just because parents have a "moral responsibility" or whatever to impart "basic moral teachings" doesn't mean that parents have to let anyone who wants to discuss these things with their kids.

Yeah, I'd probably have said something had that clueless first-year teacher been in charge of the sex-ed class rather than the older, veteran teacher I knew and trusted.

Besides, I don't think the OP said she didn't/wouldn't/hadn't discussed these things with her child. She simply said they shouldn't be talked about in a classroom. I happen to disagree in general, but she did mention she doesn't feel that particular teacher is the right person to do it.

dm

[kennedy444]

I am coming late to this thread but had to say that I would read about the book before answering but would probably let her read it. Afterall, wasn't "To Kill A Mockingbird" about rape too? And that is a "classic."

[MrsCorell]

I don't have time to read through the whole thread~kids need to be read bedtime stories. However, I have read the book. It does touch on the idea of rape, but was not graphic. It is about a girl who was raped and focuses more on her emotional aftermath than it does the actual assault. The premise of the book is how an emotionally traumatizing event can alter a person's perception of reality, the things that they enjoy/their reactions to such things, and how hard it can be to come to terms with such things.

If you have the time, ask the school if you can borrow a copy to read for yourself. I recommended it to my junior high students because it really is a great book.

[artgoddess]

First of all you did not ask for support, you ask for opinions, and you were given many respectful opinions. I see no reason to become angry and take off in a huff because you were expecting support only when you asked for something different.

Second I am also really confused by why you feel this is inappropriate. I don't want to accuse you of anything but I have to ask: Is it because you feel the subject is shameful? Would it be okay to discuss other difficult struggles? Say a young woman who's mother committed suicide?

[bellymama]

Originally Posted by mommyofmany

I'm still not allowing my son to read it. That's that. I'm not posting or reading anymore posts to this thread. I was looking for support, but instead got attacked and put down.

I have changed my views about MDC as well. Maybe it isn't the place for me.

i'm with threebeans. you didn't ask for support you asked for our opinion on whether you were overreacting. you were.

[CharlieBrown]

Originally Posted by UUMom

I don't know that book, but I will share this.

My hs'd teen and I just read To Kill a Mockingbird together , and rape is more than mentioned. It's a central theme. (My teen hser is 15). I think TKAM is a really important piece of American lit. As an unschooler, I was thrilled she indulged me my suggestion. . I was afraid she would say "No, thanks" , but she did not. I was grateful, as I think it's too important a piece of lit to pass by.

I don't think a book with a rape theme, in and of itself, is a reason to not read it. In fact, it may give voice to those without voice.

My 10 yo read it with me for her book club, middle schoolers.

[UnschoolnMa]

I was just talking about this thread with my kids yesterday after something kind of related came up on TV and Dd informed me that she read "Speak" last year. She said it was a really good book and she could see how it might be useful in having discussions about sexual assault, courage in a difficult time, etc.

Also there's a movie about it too I guess. Anyway, just thought I would share.

[ananas]

Haven't read it- but many, many of the required books have adult themes such as that, and they're all great books. He's 14, not 4- a mention of rape won't hurt him, y'know?

[sammypants]

Haven't read the whole thread but wanted to say that I taught it this year and got an overwhelmingly positive response from the class including meaningful, emotionally explorative culminating projects. Some students who had not participated all year came out of their shells to contribute to the discussions this book generated. There are many resources out there dedicated to teaching this novel with a socially proactive spin, seeking to empower those disenfranchised by brutal sexual experiences.

[JSerene]

This is a great thread. I had never heard of the author and now I've not only read Speak as a result of this thread, I've read 2 of her other books and plan to read more. Speak was a great book. I'm so glad I saw this thread and was hipped to this book.

[Labbemama]

Originally Posted by heather8

I wish more young teens, girls AND particularly boys, would read books that give them a glimpse into the aftermath of a rape.

I think it's great that this topic is being addressed in school if it's in terms of talking about it and recovering from it. as 1 in 4 girls will be sexually assaulted and one in 5 boys. (Approximately, figures could be higher because it often goes unreported) It's not just a women's issue. 1. It happens to boys and men too, and 2. If we don't talk about it how can we prevent it and get support for the healing process to begin?

There's a great program called ManUP and another one called Men can prevent rape which encourages boys and men to have education and join in the fight against sexual violence. I do advocate having some talks with just boys and just girls and then the group together. I think the kids are more comfortable sharing their attitudes and concerns in same sex groups and then having a conversation about specifically what they can do in their school to improve things for all.

There are also programs for talking to teens about healthy relationships. I know of one such program called Teen Exchange and they talk about a lot of things including date rape, how far are you willing to go, self-esteem and personal values.

I'm glad you brought it up, we're looking for summer reading material.

[darien]

Our local paper had summer reading recs from librarians, and Speak was mentioned for highschoolers.

[potatocraft]

The Color Purple, Witch of Blackbird Pond, Romeo and Juliet, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Crucible, The Scarlet Letter....All of these books at least mention sex, and all of them were required reading in highschool when I went.
Most of them I had already read, but that is another story. I think discussing these topics helped boys understand girls positions on this stuff and girls understand boys.

I would at least read the book at home first then decide if my child would be reading the book in class or not. It is like when I was in high school and took a humanities class. They had many religious groups come to school and talk about the basis of their religion. No one had a problem with any presentation until it came to the Jehovah's witnesses...Then all of the christian families in the are pulled their children from the class for the day. And this was a 12th grade class. No one was trying to convert anyone, they just didn't want them in the room with them. And no one had a problem with the Hasidic(sp?) Jews, the muslims, the mormons, or anyone else that came to visit.

When we got out of class we were grilled by the kids who didn't get to see the presentation. Did they try to convert us? did they do this, that or the other thing? Because the subject was made taboo by their parents, their minds just ran with it. In truth the presentation was much like everyone elses. a little history about the organization, a brief overview of the beliefs and q&a. That is it. They had to follow the same rules as everyone else that spoke, (no literature, no preaching, etc...) But because these kids didn't sit in the classroom for discussions afterward, they didn't get the understanding about the subject matter that everyone in the class did.
Hope this makes sense, I need to go to bed.
Shawna

[LilyGrace]

I have only just stumbled onto this thread, and it blew my mind. Not because of the book, nor the age of the child in question, but.......


HOW can a work be dismissed simply on hearsay??? Without reading the book, without knowing the context of the questionable content, HOW can the experience be blindly ripped away from another?

As parents, it is our job to be the top tier when it comes to our children. When they are small, we do research into the toys, safety seats, shows..everything we expose them to. But as they grow, there's no reason to forget that it is still our job to check out anything that makes us uneasy.

What a shame it is to let down our children in this manner. To say 'no' without knowing why.