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medical services in the school - Page 4

post #61 of 106
Thanks Jaye, I was feeling unable to respond in any kind of appropriate or articulate manner, although--and I mean this gently--I don't think lilsparrow was serious there, I think she was making a point that is similar the points you and I have tried to make.

More generally, the similarity in "lumping" cognitive disabilities and medical disabilities together is not about their programming or classroom placement, it's about the disability part of the phrase. That's key.

Section 504 of the Americans with Disabilities Act states that when a person has a disabling condition that impacts a major life activity--breathing, walking, seeing, hearing, learning--that person is entitled to accommodations by all other entities, in this case, schools. Section 504 is the broader category in which special education is in. If you think of it as a series of circles, you have a large circle encompassing all people, then you'd have a smaller circle within that includes all people with disabilities of varying levels--a person with a cochlear implant maybe, who is likely to need to receive preferential seating (otherwise known as an accommodation). A person with diabetes is likely to fall within this circle if we look exclusively at the diabetes, and no other co-existing condition. Thus, that person, under federal law, is entitled to that extra step that the school district must take. Schools have monies budgeted specifically for this, and they have reserves as well that they might dip into in a pinch. If they don't, seriously consider electing new board members next election round . Then, a smaller circle within that 504 circle includes special education, and these are disabilities that directly impact a child's ability to learn and succeed within the general education classroom without specialized instruction.

So no, a child with either type of diabetes is not necessarily comparable to a child with a cognitive impairment. However, a child with diabetes, is entitled to accommodations under Section 504 just as a child with special education needs is entitled to those same (and more) accommodations. It is not the responsibility of the parent to do the work, although I do agree that common sense and a sense of working together for a common cause is better for all. I've never said a parent shouldn't work with the school district. But a family needing to leave a district for the district's failure to appropriately accommodate is a very serious thing. Children with ADHD are also entitled to accommodations under Section 504, and that tends to be a popular topic around here. Why so much trouble with a child who has diabetes? Still medical, still out of that child's control, why should that child not be entitled to attend school without fear of dying or falling into a coma?
post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaye View Post

omg - obviously no one ever said anything about putting a child w/ a medical issue like diabetes w/ severely cognitively impaired children. The thread was about special ed expenses for school districts. God FORBID your kid gets lumped with the REAL severely impaired children.
BUT the thread IS NOT about special ed expenses for special ed children. The thread, according to the OP, is about schools providing a nurse so that a child with Type 1 Diabetes can attend the school. The fact that severely cognitively impaired children keeps coming up on a thread about Type 1 Diabetes is what prompted my clarification. You never know who might be lurking and the last thing myself, my son or anyone, that has or loves someone with Type 1 Diabetes needs, is the spread of more ignorance.

BTW ... I agree with your perception of "those retarded kids" type of attitude on this thread. I find it nauseating.

ETA ... in fact the OP specifically stated she wanted responses to that particular situation and made it a point to EXCLUDE special education situations. Yet, some posters keep bringing up their irritation towards funds towards special education for the cognitively impaired, to justify denying Type 1 Diabetics their right to an education.

I personally think the cognitively impaired have a right to an education as well, but as the OP said, that is a different topic than Type 1 diabetes.
post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamnEmma View Post
Thanks Jaye, I was feeling unable to respond in any kind of appropriate or articulate manner, although--and I mean this gently--I don't think lilsparrow was serious there, I think she was making a point that is similar the points you and I have tried to make.

?
I was being slightly tongue in cheek, and yes I am tring to make a similar point, but I don't think I did very well. Perhaps my previous post clarified my PVO a little better.

Keep fighting the good fight, ladies. Kids DO have rights, and they depend on adults to protect them.
post #64 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilsparrow View Post
BUT the thread IS NOT about special ed expenses for special ed children. The thread, according to the OP, is about schools providing a nurse so that a child with Type 1 Diabetes can attend the school.
Yes, it started that way but it veered, as many threads do. I was overwhelmed by some of the posts here and may have misinterpreted yours. It seemed like more bashing of the "non-functioning members of society". I apologize if I misunderstood. I would totally expect your child to get the medical services needed for him/her to be in school, as should my non-verbal severely impaired child. I appreciate your clarification.
post #65 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaye View Post
Yes, it started that way but it veered, as many threads do. I was overwhelmed by some of the posts here and may have misinterpreted yours. It seemed like more bashing of the "non-functioning members of society". I apologize if I misunderstood. I would totally expect your child to get the medical services needed for him/her to be in school, as should my non-verbal severely impaired child. I appreciate your clarification.
Please no apology is necessary. In fact I think we both responded from the same place in our hearts. I think maybe you thought I was *offended* at the implication that my son was grouped with cognitively impaired children. Nope ... I meant what I said when I referred to them as lovely children. But, I was offended. I felt that the fact that cognitively impaired children kept coming up when speaking about Type 1 Diabetes revealed an underlying prejudice towards those that are cognitively impaired (with type 1 Diabetes ignorantly being thrown on the coattails.)

My youngest is apparently developmentally delayed. We still don't know the extent or permanence of his disabilities, but whatever they may or may not be, I pray for a more compassionate world. A world that recognizes the dignity of ALL human life. Whether "fully functioning members of society" or not and I know many people personally whose lives have been enriched by having the priveledge of caring for some of these special children.

ETA ... I read over my post that you quoted in yours, and I can see how you interpreted it the way you did. YIKES! Mea Culpa.
post #66 of 106
Thread Starter 
Wow... OP chiming back in here. I forgot about this thread for a day or two, came back, and was shocked to see how much discussion happened!

I certainly have plently of opinions about special ed and free and appropriate education and all, but I was really just wondering about one situation.

To address a few points... If the child's former school was sued, it would probably shut it down. They are severely struggling. I found out today that they offered to send the child to a larger nearby school with a full time nurse and the family declined. I didn't say it before, but the child is supposed to be in my classroom. The siblings started last Friday, but the school and the family haven't been able to figure out how to meet the diabetic child's needs yet. I haven't met the parents yet.

Someone asked what happens when a child is sick or injured and there's no nurse there--the same thing that happens if the child were at home. We do first aid if needed and call 911 or drive to the hospital. For us, the hospital is 15 minutes away. Yes, it's a small rural hospital, but they can handle emergencies just fine. If emergency care isn't needed, our secretary takes care of bandaids, coughdrops, and aspirin. But she's never handled insulin.

vtgirl, your response was really helpful to me. I'm glad to hear about a similar situation and how it was handled. That's funny that the cook ended up taking charge. That sounds like something our wonderful cook would do too.
post #67 of 106
The bigotry and ignorance on this thread is mind-boggling.

Ecoteat, just because "you don't handle things like that" doesn't mean your school is not legally required to. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for discrimination.
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoteat View Post
I found out today that they offered to send the child to a larger nearby school with a full time nurse and the family declined.
If the district is offering another nearby school that has a nurse, as well as providing transportation, this would probably meet the criteria for FAPE and the family could very well lose if they chose to fight this. I would hate to be in this family's position.
post #69 of 106
I really hope that when/ if this child attends this school she is made to feel welcome, not like a burden.
post #70 of 106
Quote:
Are you serious? The example was the principal says "we don't do wheelchairs". This isn't exactly just something "not going 1 person's way". Of course, it would never even get to the lawsuit level because it is so blatantly illegal.
LOL This *just* hit me. You are so right! We wouldn't even bother, we would just settle out of court for whatever the parent requested. That administrator, luckily, has left. On the bad news side of the equation, she has become the director of special education for another district.
post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieMF View Post
sorry I still don't see it as a "free education" issue. Nobody is saying the child can't go to school, for all we know the district this child is going into IS working to find a solution whether it be paid, volunteer, nurse, student nurse, parent, teacher whatnot.
Medical care is a basic, daily, physical need for a child with type 1 diabetes. It is part of a free education, just as bathrooms, electricity and heat are part of a free education for all children. It's a basic need that must be met at the school for the child to learn. Period.

There are many reasons I would argue a full time RN on staff is the only adequate way to meet the medical needs of a type 1 diabetic child. I've gone over a few of them on this thread.
post #72 of 106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Ecoteat, just because "you don't handle things like that" doesn't mean your school is not legally required to. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for discrimination.
First of all, any grievances this family might have against a school wouldn't be against MY school. My principal and nurse are working closely with the family to find a solution. I'm not privy to the details until they are figured out, though. Remember, they left a different school before--and I don't know if this medical issue was the only reason or not. I also can't believe how much talk of discrimination is being tossed around this thread. There is absolutely no evidence of discrimination in any of the schools this child has been in. The school they left simply can not hire a full time nurse. In the past 2 years, because of budget cuts from the state, they have had to get rid of a guidance counselor, 3 classroom teachers, and cut back art and music. They are struggling to stay open at this point. This is not an instance of ignorance or discrimination, and I think the family understands that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theretohere View Post
I really hope that when/ if this child attends this school she is made to feel welcome, not like a burden.
As the future teacher of this child, I am offended that anyone would suggest anything but a warm, welcoming environment in my classroom and the rest of my school.
post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoteat View Post
As the future teacher of this child, I am offended that anyone would suggest anything but a warm, welcoming environment in my classroom and the rest of my school.
You may be offended, but the tone of this thread has made me concerned that the child is just going to be seen as a resource drain. And that's not right.
post #74 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by theretohere View Post
You may be offended, but the tone of this thread has made me concerned that the child is just going to be seen as a resource drain. And that's not right.
IMO, I don't think ecoteat displayed any discrimination. She has stated mostly facts, and the tone of *her* posts doesn't give me any reason to think she would treat this child any differently than the others. Some of the other posters on this thread? Now, that's another story.
post #75 of 106
Thread Starter 
Thank you, lilsparrow, I was about to say the same thing. Of the 74 posts in this thread, only 3 or 4 of them are from me--and there is no negative tone in those. It's the other 70 that have people talking about draining resources and discrimination. I am delighted to have a new student join my class--even if there are only 5 weeks of school left! The siblings seem lovely and my other students are excited. The fact that the student has medical needs has nothing to do with my instruction or how welcoming we will be. I'm anxious to see what my principal and nurse come up with to accommodate this child's needs.
post #76 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by annethcz View Post
This is one of those subjects on which I have mixed feelings. I do believe that every child should have an appropriate education. But at times I do struggle with the amount of resources that are made available to children with special needs. It's not that I think kids with special needs shouldn't have those needs met, but when such a large percentage of resources is spent on such a small percentage of the population, it seems unfair. Especially in the case of a small school, where the addition of one extra staff person who is hired to care for only one child takes away from the resources available for the other 65 children who may not benefit from that extra staff person. In a small school, hiring a nurse or an extra paraprofessional may mean that there isn't money for an art class or for field trips.

I don't think this really has anything to do with whether or not there is adequate funding for schools, but rather how we as a society have chosen to prioritize school spending. As a society, we have decided that all kids should have their special needs accomidated, even if it means that the majority of students lose resources because of this. Again, I'm not against special education or against making accomidations for kids with special needs. But the reality is that special services do take funding away from mainstream funding, and this is especially true in small schools.
You have very well stated these concerns and I agree with you totally.
Of course we all want children with special needs to receive a high quality education, but when funds are limited it can really feel that children with special needs benefit at the expense of others. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I do understand why one would have mixed feelings.
post #77 of 106
I guess I don't understand about the "mixed feelings." Which two feelings are mixed? For me, I fully support that all kids deserve a free education. Some kids require more money than others, but that doesn't for a second make me feel that those kids shouldn't be included with their needs met. It just makes me wish there was more money available for all students. I do think that life/death medical situations, and special ed covered by federal law does need to be taken care of before we pay for art/music/other things that are nice, but not absolutely necessary.
post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by junipermuse View Post
Of course we all want children with special needs to receive a high quality education, but when funds are limited it can really feel that children with special needs benefit at the expense of others.
That's funny, because I see children w/ special needs getting the crap end of the stick most of the time.

Can you give actual examples of SN kids benefiting at the expense of others or are you just listening to media sound bites? Do you actually know any families with SN kids and what their education situation is?

Again, how about blaming our government and society for the limited funds for education instead of SN kids?
post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flor View Post
I guess I don't understand about the "mixed feelings." Which two feelings are mixed? For me, I fully support that all kids deserve a free education. Some kids require more money than others, but that doesn't for a second make me feel that those kids shouldn't be included with their needs met. It just makes me wish there was more money available for all students. I do think that life/death medical situations, and special ed covered by federal law does need to be taken care of before we pay for art/music/other things that are nice, but not absolutely necessary.
: You took the words right out of my mouth.
post #80 of 106
I can't even imagine a school not having a nurse on staff. I think all of the children could benefit from this. I hope you get one.
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