Two things that really helped me - Page 2

[Nan'sMom]

Thanks for sharing your story. I recently read Byron Katie's "I Need Your Love; Is That True?" and found it to be wonderful. It's inspiring that the books you read and the work you did had such profound effects on your life.

I think that with things like PPD and PTSD there is no one answer. I know people who were helped through by meds and others who were helped by different methods. For me, finding the right classical homeopath and the right homeopathic remedy was invaluable to curing PTSD after my first birth.

[Sol_Solved]

The Work couldn't be further from positive thinking and the like. I do think it can help the right kind of person find a way out of PPD. Now, I haven't had PPD (should I say "yet"?, I'm still pregnant), but I've had depression and anxiety and The Work was actually recommended personally to me by a psychologist and a psychiatrist that were leading a therapy group on meditation for depression that I was attending. And it worked for me.

I understand the risks of someone holding out to get help thinking they should fix it on their own through books and whatnot, but at the same time, there's also risk of, IMO, trusting that medication is the only way for everyone. I think it's encomiable that the OP would share her journey, especially since it's less known than other usual PPD options. And as with everything else, there's no true one size fits all solution.

Still, what I've found is that solutions such as meditation, self-hypnosis and The Work work a lot better when you're not "on the edge" yet. For people like me who when they have anxiety one of the most impossible things it seems to be asking for help (especially calling to make an appointment, and then going! and knowing it's there every week; I have to be really on a deep end to resort to that), it works because I can do something sooner, and if it's not enough, it makes it much, much easier to contact a therapist before I spiraled down too far. And oftentimes it turns out to be enough on its own for me.

[mom0810]

That's great, and I am all for alternative therapies. My whole point is that I do not want moms who go on meds to feel like they have failed in some way because they did not have success with the work or any other method of dealing with depression.

There is a tendency to be judgmental toward women who go on meds, and that stigma needs to go away. In the view of everyone, not just the woman on the meds.

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by mom0810

That's great, and I am all for alternative therapies. My whole point is that I do not want moms who go on meds to feel like they have failed in some way because they did not have success with the work or any other method of dealing with depression.

There is a tendency to be judgmental toward women who go on meds, and that stigma needs to go away. In the view of everyone, not just the woman on the meds.

mom0810, thank you so much for all of your great posts on this forum.

[gwerydd]

Originally Posted by mom0810

That's great, and I am all for alternative therapies. My whole point is that I do not want moms who go on meds to feel like they have failed in some way because they did not have success with the work or any other method of dealing with depression.

There is a tendency to be judgmental toward women who go on meds, and that stigma needs to go away. In the view of everyone, not just the woman on the meds.

Thank you mom0810 i really appreciate your posts. you seem to really understand where i was coming from.

[underthebluerug]

Originally Posted by mom0810

That's great, and I am all for alternative therapies. My whole point is that I do not want moms who go on meds to feel like they have failed in some way because they did not have success with the work or any other method of dealing with depression.

There is a tendency to be judgmental toward women who go on meds, and that stigma needs to go away. In the view of everyone, not just the woman on the meds.

From me too----THANK YOU for caring enough to post here and get a crucial point across. I lost my best friend to PPD suicide in Jan 2003 after she was told by her church rep that she needed to try harder to use natural/alternative methods to alleviate her depression rather than "resort to meds". She went off the celexa she'd been prescribed that had been starting to help her, and two weeks later took her own life. In the twisted thinking of PPD, mothers like my dearest friend secretly reach the conclusion that their children would be better off without them.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by underthebluerug

From me too----THANK YOU for caring enough to post here and get a crucial point across. I lost my best friend to PPD suicide in Jan 2003 after she was told by her church rep that she needed to try harder to use natural/alternative methods to alleviate her depression rather than "resort to meds". She went off the celexa she'd been prescribed that had been starting to help her, and two weeks later took her own life. In the twisted thinking of PPD, mothers like my dearest friend secretly reach the conclusion that their children would be better off without them.

That's so sad. If her meds were working it's awful someone would try to discourage her from taking them. Sorry for you, your friend and her family.

One of the reasons I am reluctant to suggest meds (or take them) is similar to your story. In my immediate circle of friends and family I know of one attempted suicide and two actual suicides that occurred and were pretty clearly from antidepressants. I know that in at least two of the situations the doctor prescribed meds but didn't really do counseling...which I think is not all that uncommon.

So meds can be literally lifesaving but they can have risks as well. But having/getting rid of PPD or depression in general is pretty clearly NOT a question of just "trying harder".

[mom0810]

The reason that suicides are associated with meds are that once the meds begin working, the person has more drive and if they were already suicidal, it gives them the energy to go through with it. That's why someone starting meds needs a lot of therapy in the first weeks/months. They want to follow up with you. But they won't make someone who is not already suicidal start thinking that way all of a sudden.

Depressed people sometimes contemplate suicide. So the meds may look to be to blame, but actually are not. It's like saying that because someone wearing a blue shirt fell down that blue shirts make people fall down. It's just not true.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by mom0810

The reason that suicides are associated with meds are that once the meds begin working, the person has more drive and if they were already suicidal, it gives them the energy to go through with it. That's why someone starting meds needs a lot of therapy in the first weeks/months. They want to follow up with you. But they won't make someone who is not already suicidal start thinking that way all of a sudden.

Depressed people sometimes contemplate suicide. So the meds may look to be to blame, but actually are not. It's like saying that because someone wearing a blue shirt fell down that blue shirts make people fall down. It's just not true.

Actually at least one of the people in question never had suicidal ideation until she was on the meds. One of the others was only mildly depressed from a life situation change. So it seems to me from these personal experiences and from reading that the meds can alter brain chemistry to the point of suicide.

As you say though, therapy in the first months is absolutely crucial nd was not provided in these instances.

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by underthebluerug

From me too----THANK YOU for caring enough to post here and get a crucial point across. I lost my best friend to PPD suicide in Jan 2003 after she was told by her church rep that she needed to try harder to use natural/alternative methods to alleviate her depression rather than "resort to meds". She went off the celexa she'd been prescribed that had been starting to help her, and two weeks later took her own life. In the twisted thinking of PPD, mothers like my dearest friend secretly reach the conclusion that their children would be better off without them.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Her poor children...

[maxwill129]

Originally Posted by mom0810

The reason that suicides are associated with meds are that once the meds begin working, the person has more drive and if they were already suicidal, it gives them the energy to go through with it. That's why someone starting meds needs a lot of therapy in the first weeks/months. They want to follow up with you. But they won't make someone who is not already suicidal start thinking that way all of a sudden.

Depressed people sometimes contemplate suicide. So the meds may look to be to blame, but actually are not. It's like saying that because someone wearing a blue shirt fell down that blue shirts make people fall down. It's just not true.

That's really scary. I had suicidal thoughts and they got severly worse on meds. My dr. pretty much handed me some pills and told me that I needed to be around other women more often. I'm off meds now and although I have bad days that I still think about the fact that my kids would be better off without me, I've yet to picture the suicide in my head like I used to.

Sorry. Totally OT, but I was suprised by the info in your post. I had no idea.

[Sunshine_Amy]

Hi All,
I've not had PPD, but severe depression after a trauma. Just stumbled on this thread.

In my own experience, spiritual perspective was not accessible during the worst of my depression, I was just too foggy and confused. But as I started to heal physically, and mental clarity was gained, spiritual perspective came....

And at that point I had to look, as the OP said, at the seeds of story that I was telling myself, and heal that. For me, that part was instrumental in being able to understand, and move on from, the depression itself. It came pretty naturally to me as my mood began to lift.

MSH, thank you for sharing those books and your healing story. It's refreshing to hear someone speak of the inner journey of healing depression, in addition to the crisis management aspects.

[notaperfectmom]

Originally Posted by mom0810

So the meds may look to be to blame, but actually are not. It's like saying that because someone wearing a blue shirt fell down that blue shirts make people fall down. It's just not true.

This is called "confounding". In both philosophy and statistics, correlation does NOT or should not imply causation and can be problematic when identifying cause.

A good example (and PLEASE read ALL of this paragraph before freaking out) is the "breastfeeding makes kids smarter" argument. I breastfed my baby, I loved doing it, I'll do it for all my kids and it was best for both him and me. Breastfeeding is superior if you can do it. And for health reasons it is definitely best...however the argument about breastfeeding making kids smarter doesn't hold up from a biostatistics standpoint. Why?

Well....turns out the moms who breastfeed are (on the whole) smarter and better educated. It isn't milk that makes kids smart, it the genetics that the smart women who breastfeed pass on. Confounding at work....

But back to the topic....I will say that while I didn't have suicidal ideation, all my symptoms did get temporarily worse when I started meds. And then...everything got better. Not sure why that happens. Either way, a few days of suckiness vs. relief. No competition for me.

[gwerydd]

Originally Posted by mom0810

The reason that suicides are associated with meds are that once the meds begin working, the person has more drive and if they were already suicidal, it gives them the energy to go through with it. That's why someone starting meds needs a lot of therapy in the first weeks/months. They want to follow up with you. But they won't make someone who is not already suicidal start thinking that way all of a sudden.

Depressed people sometimes contemplate suicide. So the meds may look to be to blame, but actually are not. It's like saying that because someone wearing a blue shirt fell down that blue shirts make people fall down. It's just not true.

thanks again mom0810. this is what i was told when i was first put on anti-depressants nearly 10 years ago. i had a bad reaction to Zoloft and was then put on Celexa which was a better fit. a good doctor will follow very closely after medication is started to be sure that the patient is responding positively and that the medication is a good fit.

[shell024]

I'd like to chime in. I haven't posted in awhile, I think the last time I posted, I was in the throes.

I had PPD with suicidal thoughts, but no intention of carrying them out. I finally made a few big life changes. Started phone consultations with Dr. Bennett (author of PPD for Dummies), ended a toxic relationship, and got on Prozac. About two weeks in, things shifted.

I came across Ho'oponopono (a Hawaiian healing process), which sounds kind of similar to what the OP is talking about. It is about the spiritual aspect, and taking responsibilty, NOT BLAME, for your life. I won't get into the details, you can look it up if you're interested...

BUT, also, as some others mentioned, when I was in the throes, I was not interested in shifting. I just felt sh*tty and didn't want to do a damn thing. As the meds began to work, as peace returned to my home, as my physical strength increased and the fog began to clear, I was READY to receive this part of growth. I was ready to love myself. But I also had to proceed with caution, because I did feel the urge at one point to stop the meds, thinking I didn't need them, but I reminded myself that the meds were part of the WHOLE of healing that got me to the receptive point. (did that make any sense??)

I understand both the OP and also everything that mom0810 is pointing out. I'd like to thank both for sharing, and everyone else who added to this discussion.

If I had read this thread when I was in the throes, I may have gotten defensive about it, thinking to the OP "Easy for her to say, she's not in MY situation!" But I can see the depth to it now that I am recovering, and do appreciate her sharing, and I hope that we can remain open.

To all those in the throes or even in early recovery, huge hugs. There is no one way to heal from PPD, and it may be true that it is 10 different ways that work for one person. Now that I am recovering, I can look back and see that there are so many factors that create/add to PPD. I believe getting professional support was my first step that gave me strength to change some other things in my life, and also to try meds. And I think the meds helped my brain clear back to what feels like "normal" and that gave me the strength to give myself proper nutrition, and as things got better, I delved into my spirituality more. Its a journey. There is no one way to get there.

[sofysmommy]

Mommyshoppinghabit thank you so much! I suffer from PPD and I am not going the meds route. they never worked for me, just made me numb, and sleepy. I will check those books ou.t DH and I were talking about it last Sunday he will be glad to hear that it worked for someone

[freespiritbirth]

Actually the recommendation of The Work by Byron Katie is a superb suggestion. As a doula and midwife I do birth trauma work with women who are depressed, not depressed and everything in between and The Work is the one consistent way I see improvement and my clients proclaim relief.
Byron Katie and this practice doesn't lay blame on anyone at all - what actually happens in the process is a keen awareness that thoughts are just that - thoughts and we have the power to challenge them - even when we believe them with every ounce of our beings. That's the thing about our thoughts, eh, if we believe them so profoundly then we will never challenge the truth or lack thereof. Here's the grace - The Work doesn't even ask you to let go of your beliefs - simply to return to your own mind, embrace your wisdom and challenge what you've been telling yourself (which you still can do even in the throws of however one wants to define PPD)...all in four simple questions!
It is positively miraculous !

[mom0810]

Yes but PPD as many of us have experienced is NOT ABOUT THOUGHTS AT ALL. I think The Work has it's place, but not as a frontline in treating PPD, which has physical, as well as mental symptoms. Any more than reading a book about sugar can cure diabetes, or thoughts can cure asthma or heart disease....

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by mom0810

Yes but PPD as many of us have experienced is NOT ABOUT THOUGHTS AT ALL. I think The Work has it's place, but not as a frontline in treating PPD, which has physical, as well as mental symptoms. Any more than reading a book about sugar can cure diabetes, or thoughts can cure asthma or heart disease....

Once again, :

[sofysmommy]

Originally Posted by mom0810

Yes but PPD as many of us have experienced is NOT ABOUT THOUGHTS AT ALL. I think The Work has it's place, but not as a frontline in treating PPD, which has physical, as well as mental symptoms. Any more than reading a book about sugar can cure diabetes, or thoughts can cure asthma or heart disease....

soo you are saying that everyone experiences PPD the same way???