"The family bed destroys married life" - Page 6

[annalenasmom]

Isn't that why we have couches? Nobody else uses them in the middle of the night!! LOL! :-D I know all the old ladies wonder what happens because our children sleep in our bed, even though my 4 1/2 year old and 2 year old are out of our bed doesn't mean they don't still come in a couple times a week in the middle of the night because they woke up and couldn't find comfort themselves. They're not dependent, they just know they will be taken care of in our room and loved and will quietly go back to sleep, sometimes they'll just come in and say HI and go back to their own bed knowing we're "still there".

[FaerieBabyAvalon]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

I think it makes our marriage more exciting because we *have* to find somewhere else to have sex Before it was always just bed, bed, boring bed

I agree, but now when we actually DO get to have sex in our own bed, it's a treat, because it hardly ever happens there!

[yasmel]

I am not married so I can't comment too much but the sex in the bed thing reminded me of the years when it was normal for husband and wife to sleep in separate twin beds.

[stacyann21]

we set aside adult time in the evening to be together elsewhere in the house while the baby sleeps in our bed.

That's what we do too. Once I nurse DS to sleep on our bed, I crawl away, turn on the monitor and DB and I get busy on the downstairs couch LOL.

[rightkindofme]

Originally Posted by AlmostAPpropriate

wow, maybe it is just us. I love middle of the night sex, its my favorite. In the evenings Im just so wipes all i want to do is sleep! But once Ive had 4-5 hrs of sleep I have rested enough to be up for it, and Im all drowsy, relaxed, not thinking about household stuff. I love it. leisurely lovemaking sessions were rare when DS was still in our bed.
That said, we still use some of our old fave spots from our cosleeping days, places we probably wouldnt have thought of otherwise, so that was a fringe benefit of having DS in bed with us.

Sex in the middle of the night is our favorite too. We haven't figured out how sex is going to work yet (I'm not done healing from birth) but I'm sure we will manage somehow.

[pohaha]

[QUOTE=sunnmama;11234140]I hear this sentiment a lot around here. I am one of those people

I am a person who gets more "into" it when I am in a safe, comfortable place. The brain is the biggest sex organ, after all, and mine works best in my personal bedroom. QUOTE]

Since DS doesn't sleep in the full-size bed in his room, which is set up mostly as a play room, thats our "comfortable" place

Maybe you could do something similar in your kids room? granted there isn't just a toddler bed in there

[anewmama]

There is no one size fits all. A month ago, I would have said that it isn't a strain. But after 2 weeks of illness with my daughter over the past 3 weeks (she was well between illnesses for about 3 days), her constant night nursing, my lack of sleep and the fact that DH and I, after working 40 hours a week, don't have time to be creative for sex, I am afraid I do feel that our co-sleeping is affecting our relationship. Up until now, we both have really enjoyed it. But I spend a lot of time preventing DD from waking DH by nursing her so I sleep much less than him. I have been sick too. Right now, ALL I want is for my daughter to be able to sleep through the night in her own crib, in our room, and for me to stretch out and sleep however I want with DH. And get a solid 8 hours, which I haven't had probably in the past 2 years (including last part of pregnancy and now with dd who is 14 months).

Does it destroy a marriage or damage it? Who knows. I wouldn't want to make any such blanket statement. It's worked for us but I feel that we need to do something different right now.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by annmartina

In conclusion, if your marriage can't survive a baby in your bed at night, it probably can't survive a baby in your life during the day.

This is preposterous. Sounds like blatant co-sleeping propaganda to me. I work 40 hours a week, have a 45-1 hour commute every morning and night. I pump like a mad woman at work, I have NO time for exercise. I am barely keeping up with everything. I don't know when I last had time for anything for me. If I do continue on this path _I_ won't survive. And if _I_ can't, then I will have nothing to bring to my marriage. But this is just my situation. So I don't think you can make such black and white statements and make paint parenting and marriage with such broad stroke.

[[e-mail]]

My husband and I have made love right there beside our sleeping daughter, no waking... ( 5 months old)
But mostly we throw down a small futon mattress and yes of course do it like hippies. It feels much more primitive. The guys dig it...

[One_Girl]

Even if you put her in a crib she may still wake up during the night in the crib. Then you will either have to make her CIO or you will have to get up and get her back to sleep. Kids take a tremendous toll on marriage but so do work and other aspects. Most parents of young kids are extremely sleep deprived unless they ignore their child's needs and make them cry all night. I think that how you deal with getting sleep as a couple is more of an indicator of how your marriage will do with children added to the picture than the actual location of the child. If you are sleep deprived, from rolling over and latching the child on or from getting up and soothing the child back to sleep, and your husband does not take over the care of the baby so that you can get sleep on occassion, then he doesn't respect your needs and that is something that dooms a lot of relationships. If you don't trust him to care for your child for a couple hours and bring the child to you when she needs to nurse then your relationship probably isn't going to last either. The babies actual location during this interupted sleep has nothing to do with lack of respect for a loved ones needs or lack of trust.

[anewmama]

One Girl, not sure if your post was directed at me but you lumped a whole lot of things in there and created a nice picture that is again too black and white.

Of my experience, DH is very participative. He stays home one day a week to care for her and I trust him explicitly. But my DD has now gotten in the habit of doing far more than nursing in her sleep. Once the milk let down has passed, I am her human pacifier. I fall asleep forgetting she is still latched on. Then wonder why I am even more unrested from not ever really getting comfortable. The truth is, for me, when I used to have her in our crib and would get up, sit on the side of the bed and nurse her and put her back and go to sleep, I was far more rested than this constant nursing/comfort nursing that she has become accustomed to doing.

I just get extremely bothered by these co-sleeping threads that say, "to be a parent, you MUST be sleep deprived, you must sleep with your baby, there is no alternative to being a good parent, if you can't suck it up and sleep in one bed, you are not an attached parent, you are doing something wrong, and god forbid, you must be doing the CIO if you AREN'T sleep deprived and sleeping with your kids." And, now I read basically, your marriage is nothing if you can't co-sleep? Has co-sleeping become this dogmatic?

[hedgewitch]

Originally Posted by anewmama

O And, now I read basically, your marriage is nothing if you can't co-sleep? Has co-sleeping become this dogmatic?

I can understand that you feel really stressed and pressured, co-sleeping, or any aspect of family life is a personal choice and has to work for everyone. I think because it is something that is seen as taboo in western culture that people like to talk about the benefits for a change!

Reading Onegirl's post it seemed that she was saying that being woken in the night is inevitable whether small children are in bed or next door to you. That was certainly my experience as someone who has tried pretty much every approach! I read her post as saying that the most important 'survival' technique is a supportive partner who takes a share, regardless of sleeping arrangements. If *you* (one) is doing it all and *your* dh/dp seemed uncaring of this, that would be a marriage killer rather than choosing to co-sleep.

I agree, there is no one answer and it sounds like you are under a tremendous strain. Each family has to work out what to do for themselves and no-one can judge that. I honestly think these threads are more about celebrating choices than condemning or judging. There are very few spaces where people will see sleeping with your child as a norm or even ok. People like to discuss and celebrate instead of always defending. I really don't think anyone is trying to make you feel bad.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by anewmama

One Girl, not sure if your post was directed at me but you lumped a whole lot of things in there and created a nice picture that is again too black and white.

Of my experience, DH is very participative. He stays home one day a week to care for her and I trust him explicitly. But my DD has now gotten in the habit of doing far more than nursing in her sleep. Once the milk let down has passed, I am her human pacifier. I fall asleep forgetting she is still latched on. Then wonder why I am even more unrested from not ever really getting comfortable. The truth is, for me, when I used to have her in our crib and would get up, sit on the side of the bed and nurse her and put her back and go to sleep, I was far more rested than this constant nursing/comfort nursing that she has become accustomed to doing.

I just get extremely bothered by these co-sleeping threads that say, "to be a parent, you MUST be sleep deprived, you must sleep with your baby, there is no alternative to being a good parent, if you can't suck it up and sleep in one bed, you are not an attached parent, you are doing something wrong, and god forbid, you must be doing the CIO if you AREN'T sleep deprived and sleeping with your kids." And, now I read basically, your marriage is nothing if you can't co-sleep? Has co-sleeping become this dogmatic?

I am sorry that you were offended by my post. It was not directed at you, it was directed at the line of thought that many people seem to have about co-sleeping being damaging to the family bed and the notion that everything is going to be great and everyone will get sleep once the baby is moved into the crib. I have never heard of anybody who got more sleep from getting out of bed and staying awake to feed their baby when they wake in the night, but if that truly works for you then I am glad that you found something that works, the opposite thing happened for me. I also wasn't saying that a person needs to sleep with their kids and if they aren't sleep deprived then they are making them CIO. I was saying that when your baby wakes up you will either have to get up and take care of her needs or do CIO. When people get up several times in the middle of the night they tend to be sleep deprived. I also wasn't saying that co-sleeping makes a marriage or breaks it, respect, trust, and being able to rely on the other person when you need them is what makes a marriage or breaks it.

I use the words "you" and "your" as a way of addressing whoever is reading the post not as a way to address the person who has posted right before I did, that is just my writing style not a criticism against you, if I was going to address a post at someone I would use their name or quote them.

[alllyssa]

I have 6 kids and have been "doing" the AP thing for almost 18 years, so take my experience for what it's worth . . .

Co-sleeping does effect the physical closeness that spouses have while lying in bed. It interferes with being able to simply roll over and touch, cuddle, etc. It makes spontanious love making almost impossible. If you think that this can't take a long-term toll on a marriage, then I think that you are terribly naive.

My DH and I decided a long time ago not to sacrifice our children and their nighttime needs, but there is a trade off that we both feel from time to time. It is harder, I think, to stay connected to each other some days, simply because we can't touch and hold one another as often as we need to. Our need to connect through touch and sex often goes unfulfilled. This does lead to frustration.

Something is sacrificed when you have kids in between you and your privacy is limited. It was easier to find "alone" time when the oldest kids were younger, but now we have little ones in our bed and older kids who are often awake even after we go to bed. So there is no option to sneak off to another room, go downstairs, etc.

We still love each other very much and are commited to our family, but to say that co-sleeping requires no sacrifice in the marriage, is false in my opinion.

[stickywicket67]

the title of the thread is "The family bed destroys married life".

imo-married life is defined by way more than sex. it's part of it but not all of it. important but not the most important part.

co-sleeping definitely calls for sacrifice, there is no way around it. but by it's very nature having children calls for sacrifice of all kinds.

Shaggydaddy- "I mean, we can't dtd on our bed in the middle of the night anymore. We also can't watch horror movies in the living room, or go to smokey dives to watch local punk bands. There was lots of stuff we couldn't do before we had kids that we can do now. I am willing to trade a lot for my kids, but an intimate relationship with my wife isn't one of those things I had to give up... We just had to change things up a little. Different, not worse."

i couldn't agree more.


honeybee dreams-"i think there is this huge "status" thing that happens with people who are first time parents... "this baby is going to have to fit into our family! i'm not changing anything for this baby."
it's a delusional idea, but one that clearly has lots of support in popular culture."

and this. though i think it's less "status" and more a resistance to change. a level of not wanting to give up that independence. our culture (western culture) is a culture of individuality.

mimim- "No, no, no, children destroy marriages.
Seriously though, anyone who expects their life to be the same and "convenient" after having kids is either deluded or has really bad parenting potential."

and this.

i think combined with the OP you three posters hit the nail on the head.

and i'm not saying if co-sleeping doesn't work for you and your family and baby and everyone is happier sleeping in their own beds don't do it.

but if a marriage fails i highly doubt it is all the fault of the "family bed".

[basilisa76]

Co-sleeping definately AFFECTS your bed habits, whether it is sex, sleeping or simply moving around. I co-slept with my daughter for the first 3 months of her life and after that we do it often when she is sick, wakes up scared or simply won't go to sleep by herself. I love the fact that the 3 of us can snuggle in bed but it is uncomfortable and my husband was never happy about co-sleeping at the beginning, now our baby is older and he is not afraid of rolling over her but we do not sleep well AT ALL when she is with us. She just moves and kicks too much. All situations are different.

Because we did not co-slept for a long time, I can't say that it really put a strain on our marriage but I would not deny that it affects it. I guess it is up to each couple to manage the situation the best they can... Either use the couch or somewhere else or do it during weekends only during the day! (which is what we did!)

Gigi

[Fluffy_Pants]

This is a great thread. I think the biggest indicator of your marriage's viability is not where your babies sleep, but how flexible you and your mate are about meeting challenges (ALL challenges). If you have to have things a certain way (whether that is sleeping arrangements, mealtimes, or anything else) you are bound to be disappointed. For people who can't flex, that disappointment can break them. If you can flex with the needs of your partner, yourself and your children, you will probably have a healthy marriage. Rather than seeing problems as insurmountable obstacles, you start looking for a path around them. Sometimes you find that things are better once you figure out a different arrangement (like, Woo hoo, who knew sex on the dining room table was so great?!) Marriage is a very long proposal, and having small children is a relatively short time of life. It isn't your circumstances that determines whether your marriage stays strong or breaks, it is your willingness to communicate your needs, to respect your partner's needs, and to figure out a way to meet the most needs the most amount of the time, without leaving anyone out in the cold all the time.

On another note, I am one parent who has happily exclusively breastfed two crib sleepers. When they were teeny, they were in our bed. As they got a little older, they moved to a cosleeper next to us. When they were down to 2-3 feeds at night, they moved to a crib, slept there until they first woke up, then came into our bed. If I was energetic enough to put them back into their own beds after nursing, I did. If not, they stayed. Once they were down to one feed a night, I mostly always put them back in their cribs. And night weaning took place on it's own, and without pushing. It worked beautifully for our whole family, while cosleeping was a mess after the first few months. Both of my girls wanted to play when they were in our bed. When they did sleep, I woke up sore and achy from holding still all night long.

I have to say that I am disturbed by these edicts handed down from on high. The same people who scoff at blanket statements like "cosleeping ruins your marriage" then go on to make blanket statements of their own like "If a marriage can't survive cosleeping, it can survive at all" or "people who only have sex in their own beds probably do it missionary and must have the most boring sex lives ever." We all agree that we have to make the choices that work best for our own family, so why are we still scoffing at the ways other people find to work things out? I for one am a breastfeeding, kids in their own rooms, sex in bed, love the missionary position mama. And guess what... we are happy in our family. If you like monkey love from the chandeliers, then props to you, but how can you judge the quality of my sex life based on your own? We all have different selves, different mates, and different children. I love the constructive sharing of ideas and thoughts, but I could definitely do without the judgement.

Cheers,
Sarah

[Marandas]

love it

We co-sleep with our almost four year old; she sleeps between us and it's the best part of the day for all of us!! (Other "couple" activities can happen in other places). My child feels safe, I know she's safe...e wouldn't change a thing!!!

[DavinaT]

I'm with AlmostAPpropriate on this one.
Actually Twinklefae, I too LIKE being woken up for it. I've slept enough to be refreshed and there is something special about the middle of the night in that way.
And like another lady said, if I have to head to another colder room, half asleep makign sure not to wake junior, the mood goes.
But even if I didn't want to - no way I'd make him sleep on the sofa, even for a night.
But if the lil'ones are asleep, I will wake them in the middle of the night ONLY IN CASE OF FLOOD, FIRE OR WILD ANIMAL INVASION.
But anewmama has a point too, in that not everyone is the same and different things work for different families. We "semi co-slept with one, as in the cot as beside us, with the side let down as we were terrified of rolling over in the night and hurting her. YES, we were sleep deprived obviously but we never would have considered practising CIO. We could still take care of her needs without getting up and my super-wriggly nature didn't disturn her sleep.
But we never did 'it' beside our sleeping l'il ones but you know that was probably way more to do with our hangups than their presence.

[EnviroBecca]

I agree that it's silly to think a marriage can survive only if the husband and wife are in bed together with nobody else all night every night. But I can't agree with this:

One hundred percent of what goes on between us and our spouses that builds or detracts from the happiness of our marriages happens during our waking hours, not when we're sleeping soundly at night.

Even leaving aside sex and other forms of bonding that can happen at bedtime and waking up time, thinking just about the time when we're sleeping: Sleeping together makes a difference to people of all ages. While unconscious, we are still aware of each other's warmth, pheromones, maybe even some kind of psychic connection.

In my family, the family bed is in the kid's room, with the master bedroom kept as the place for couple time. EnviroDaddy usually sleeps in the master bedroom, but he was in the family bed with us for the first month, and since weaning he's been able to put EnviroKid to bed himself and sometimes falls asleep there while I go to sleep in the master bedroom. (Now that our kid is so big and acrobatic, it's difficult for all 3 of us to sleep in a full-size bed.) Eventually I hope that EnviroDaddy and I will be sleeping together in the master bedroom as our usual arrangement again. Our 3-year-old still needs someone with him while falling asleep and calls for me if he wakes in the night and I'm not there. He's allowed in the master bedroom and comes in there quite a bit during the day, but he's slept in there only a few times for only part of the night.

There have been many advantages to this arrangement (preserving our couple space, allowing EnviroDaddy to escape sleep disruption from night nursing, transitioning EnviroKid to sleeping alone without simultaneously moving him to a different bed) but I really, really miss sleeping with my partner! Much as I love the baby cuddles, I miss the manly cuddles. And in the era when my partner and I were not sleeping together ever, we had more moments of not being on the same "wavelength", misunderstanding each other, feeling alienated, than at any other point in our relationship.

Starflower1: When we've had extended visits with family so that we're in the situation of sharing our only private room with our child, we wait until he's asleep and then take a shower together or go for a walk together and find some privacy in the woods. As he gets older, I expect relatives will want to take him to parks and such without us, and we'll have privacy in our room then.