"The family bed destroys married life" - Page 7

[keilonwy]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

I always find the cosleeping and sex argument so bizarre. I don't know who these people are who only have sex in a bed.

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[Alexe]

Originally Posted by Fluffy_Pants

This is a great thread. I think the biggest indicator of your marriage's viability is not where your babies sleep, but how flexible you and your mate are about meeting challenges (ALL challenges). If you have to have things a certain way (whether that is sleeping arrangements, mealtimes, or anything else) you are bound to be disappointed. For people who can't flex, that disappointment can break them. If you can flex with the needs of your partner, yourself and your children, you will probably have a healthy marriage. Rather than seeing problems as insurmountable obstacles, you start looking for a path around them. Sometimes you find that things are better once you figure out a different arrangement (like, Woo hoo, who knew sex on the dining room table was so great?!) Marriage is a very long proposal, and having small children is a relatively short time of life. It isn't your circumstances that determines whether your marriage stays strong or breaks, it is your willingness to communicate your needs, to respect your partner's needs, and to figure out a way to meet the most needs the most amount of the time, without leaving anyone out in the cold all the time.

On another note, I am one parent who has happily exclusively breastfed two crib sleepers. When they were teeny, they were in our bed. As they got a little older, they moved to a cosleeper next to us. When they were down to 2-3 feeds at night, they moved to a crib, slept there until they first woke up, then came into our bed. If I was energetic enough to put them back into their own beds after nursing, I did. If not, they stayed. Once they were down to one feed a night, I mostly always put them back in their cribs. And night weaning took place on it's own, and without pushing. It worked beautifully for our whole family, while cosleeping was a mess after the first few months. Both of my girls wanted to play when they were in our bed. When they did sleep, I woke up sore and achy from holding still all night long.

I have to say that I am disturbed by these edicts handed down from on high. The same people who scoff at blanket statements like "cosleeping ruins your marriage" then go on to make blanket statements of their own like "If a marriage can't survive cosleeping, it can survive at all" or "people who only have sex in their own beds probably do it missionary and must have the most boring sex lives ever." We all agree that we have to make the choices that work best for our own family, so why are we still scoffing at the ways other people find to work things out? I for one am a breastfeeding, kids in their own rooms, sex in bed, love the missionary position mama. And guess what... we are happy in our family. If you like monkey love from the chandeliers, then props to you, but how can you judge the quality of my sex life based on your own? We all have different selves, different mates, and different children. I love the constructive sharing of ideas and thoughts, but I could definitely do without the judgement.

Cheers,
Sarah

Great post

And to people thinking sex in bed must be boring .. or limited to the missionary position ... hehe it's me not believing *your* post.

[nixie_nox]

This is what I tell people.

Problem children and teenagters also destroy a marriage. So cosleeping gives children security and confidence, which makes them better children and teenagers.

In fact,I think child issues is the number two reason for divorce after money.

Not that I am implying that some people have difficult children from not co-sleeping. But I see it as an extra precaution.

I am of the personal belief that if you have children, it stops being about you.

While being in a happy marriage is extremely important, I think you can work that around co-sleeping.

It is one thing if you are super uncomfortable and or take medications or are a heavy sleeper, but it is when people say "I" need this. Or "I" need my space, etc. that is bothers me.

I believe you do what it takes for your children. Period.

If you as a parent, keep saying "I" "I" "I", then don't be surprised when your kids do also.

Considering how high the rate of divorce is in the US, and we co-sleep the least, I really don't think co-sleeping is the problem. When most countries co-sleep.

When I have spoken to friends from other countries, they think it is weird how much we isolate ourselves from friends and family, and from our own children.

Our whole society seems to be based on how much we can isolate ourselves.

To me, isolating a very young child to another room just seems so institutional.

I tell people, most adults don't like sleeping by themselves, yet we insist that a newborn, who doesn't even know they are a seperate person from you, should sleep by themselves for 12 hours in a room? jmo

[the_lissa]

No one said sex in bed is boring. They and I said only ever having sex in bed is boring. And it is the very definition of boring to only have sex in one place to me.

[Lit Chick]

Originally Posted by nixie_nox

I tell people, most adults don't like sleeping by themselves, yet we insist that a newborn, who doesn't even know they are a seperate person from you, should sleep by themselves for 12 hours in a room? jmo

Excellent point to make. I think anti-cosleepers can dismiss a lot of your other points, because it is not something they can even relate to. But if they have even been loney without their partner in bed... or had trouble settling... well, it makes co-sleeping seem less weird. They do it to (just not with a babe).

[sharr610]

ok, so I haven't read this whole thing, but my mom said something to me recently about how we need to stop co sleeping soon, "for the good of our marriage," meaning getting busy...

So its pretty personal to assume things about our sex life. We've never been do it before going to sleep types anyway(DH is all freakish about sleeptime rituals as he's always had trouble sleeping). We find opportunities during the day or evening to get it on, during a nap, after bedtime, etc. And we just go somewhere else in the house, the living room, a second bedroom, whereever. Its just no biggie.

This is like the lamest argument ever in my opinion

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

No one said sex in bed is boring. They and I said only ever having sex in bed is boring. And it is the very definition of boring to only have sex in one place to me.

Ok, that is true for you. But that isn't true for others. If others are saying that losing their bedroom privacy is a challenge (for them) when cosleeping, how is it helpful to judge their sex life as boring?

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by nixie_nox

I am of the personal belief that if you have children, it stops being about you.

While being in a happy marriage is extremely important, I think you can work that around co-sleeping.

It is one thing if you are super uncomfortable and or take medications or are a heavy sleeper, but it is when people say "I" need this. Or "I" need my space, etc. that is bothers me.

I believe you do what it takes for your children. Period.

If you as a parent, keep saying "I" "I" "I", then don't be surprised when your kids do also.

I think you make some good points, but I think we also need to talk about balance. In my case, we coslept with a 1 yo and a 7 yo until a couple of months ago. The 1 yo still cosleeps, but the 7 yo has been moved into her own room against her wishes. She must begin the night there, although she may join us in our room if she wakes in the wee hours of the night (or in the morning).

This was definitely a matter of us, as parents, asserting what we need for our marriage. We are trying to balance dd's needs and our needs.

I guess, in the context of your post, my dd could be labeled a "problem child". I just think of her as *my child*.

[HisBeautifulWife]

Originally Posted by nixie_nox

I am of the personal belief that if you have children, it stops being about you.

I agree with that.

However I've always been taught that your marriage comes first. One day it's just going to be you and your spouse again and you don't want to wake up 20 years later to a stranger. Besides if you put your kids before your marriage, you are setting yourself up to mess up your marriage.

Yes, I understand there are times when other things have to take priority over your marriage- new baby, parent gets sick, etc.- but I believe those are seasons and it shouldn't be the rule.

I am not for or aganist co-sleeping, to each his own, but perhaps people who think it interferes with marriage have some of that "marriage first, keep your marriage bed in tact" ingrained.

[heidirk]

I just wanted to share our cosleeping story. . .

When I was pregnant, and began investigating breastfeeding, I decided that to make nightime parenting work for ME, we'd need to cosleep. We bought a mini cosleeper, and for the first few weeks, everything went fine.

Then, everything went down the toilet- but not because of cosleeping.

I guess I had gathered the idea that if I coslept, breastfed, and practiced attachment parenting, I'd be guaranteed a happy, sleeping, nonfussy baby, and all the sleep I would need. But DS was NOT that baby. It had everything to do with, DS's personality, mastitis, incredible gas, a sensory defensive infant (and mama), and a completely overwhelmed DH. Oh, and PPD, can't forget that little tidbit.

When DH and I started marriage counselling, we had to find a babysitter for DS. No matter who took care of him, he screamed the entire time we were gone, until he fell asleep. He had just begun to be happy playing on the floor for a while by himself, and suddenly, complete hysterics anytime I left the room. DH and I made the decision to pull DS back into our bed (he'd been fine in the crib for a month or two before this) and get our sleep any way we could. We were so exhausted, we did sleep, and much better than before. We also decided that if DS was going to have such a huge anxious response to an evening's separation, it wasn't worth it to keep counselling.

Here we are today, DS is two, sleeps in a big boy bed (well, a mattress on the floor) and we're expecting our second in October. The cosleeper is going back up again, and the crib is staying in the attic until I'm good and ready to see what happens.

The only thing that's different this time is that We have zero expectations. THis baby will be what this baby will be. We surmounted the challenge, and we can do so again. If this baby wants to sleep with us, wonderful, if not, wonderful too. We have the luxury of extra space, which many do not have, and we are greatful for it.

It's funny, I was just telling the coffee guy at GIANT that when you have children, you learn who you really are. The same is true for your marriage, you find out just what your relationship can take. Making babies together is I think, the acid test for a stable relationship.

Thanks for listening!



BTW- this has been a great thread, kudos to everyone for keeping it going in a real life but respectful way.


Heidi

[maliceinwonderland]

My favorites can't even be done in our bedroom, forget about the bed

My SO was adamant that the baby sleep with us because he felt like the little guy needed me. It didn't seem natural to him that a baby sleep away from his mother. As he put it "That is NOT how other mammals do it, and I'd like to think we're at least as smart as animals" I think him being so into co-sleeping because of the benefit to the baby has made our relationship even better. I can't imagine wanting to be intimate with a person who ignored the needs of his children.

I think sex is even more spontaneous/fun now because we grab it when we can, where we can.

I have always hated the assumption that having children takes away from a marriage/relationship. I'm sure for some couples it may, but maybe they weren't so fantastic at communicating and showing affection for each other to begin with, and having a child just made it more obvious?

[Annoia]

I nodded my head while reading the posts that speak on flexibility.

Being flexible has worked for our family.

We started out co-sleeping with the first, moved him to his own room , then pretty much rearranged our entire house make-up so that now I co sleep with DS and DD while DH has his own room (which used to be DS' room). DH really benefits from his Man Cave (or Mantuary), DS benefits from being in the room with me and DD (he's such an extrovert always craving ppl, unlike DH), DD benefits from nightime nursing, and I benefit from a good nights sleep! : And sneak into the ManCave every once in a while

We will move into a new living space in a year, and will probably have totally different living arrangements.

For me it's all about Maximizing the Collective Happiness. Which for us involves alot of flex.

D.

[pookel]

Originally Posted by maliceinwonderland

I have always hated the assumption that having children takes away from a marriage/relationship. I'm sure for some couples it may, but maybe they weren't so fantastic at communicating and showing affection for each other to begin with, and having a child just made it more obvious?

Right .... if having children puts stress on your relationship, it must be your fault for having a crappy relationship in the first place.

Kids are hard work. They take a lot of time and energy and leave you sleep deprived for years. Why is it so hard to accept that it's perfectly normal for that to be a stressor on even the most stable of relationships?

[heidirk]

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[cottonwood]

have to say that I am disturbed by these edicts handed down from on high. The same people who scoff at blanket statements like "cosleeping ruins your marriage" then go on to make blanket statements of their own like "If a marriage can't survive cosleeping, it can survive at all"

(You meant "can't survive at all", right?) That's not exactly what the OP said, but regardless, if your marriage is going to be brought down by sleeping with your baby, that's a pretty weak marriage to my mind. If my husband said, "it's me or the baby," I'd be like, "okay, bye." Because if my marriage surviving was dependent on me forcing my kids to be apart from me at night, I wouldn't feel like that was a kind of marriage worth saving.

Anyway, as someone way up there said, yeah, it's bizarre to me that people really believe that co-sleeping and sexual intimacy can't co-exist. You just, you know, have sex somewhere else. It's not rocket science. In our case, we have two bedrooms, one for the family bed(s) and one for me and my husband. I've heard people say, "Oh, we can't do that, we don't have enough room." But you have enough room to isolate your baby from you? I don't get it. It's the same number of rooms, right?

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds

In our case, we have two bedrooms, one for the family bed(s) and one for me and my husband. I've heard people say, "Oh, we can't do that, we don't have enough room." But you have enough room to isolate your baby from you? I don't get it. It's the same number of rooms, right?

Not necessarily. A crib is a LOT smaller than a queen or king sized mattress.

When I was born my parents had a California King waterbed and a 1-bedroom apartment, so they put my crib in the closet. (It was a rather large closet, by closet standards - about the same size as a full bathroom) Crib at the back, dresser/changing table to one side, and that was the nursery.

[nerdymom]

I just finished reading this whole thread and WOW. As a mom-to-be who is taking a "let's just see what feels right at the time" approach to co-sleeping, this is my take.

Originally Posted by starflower1

Hello I am a new mom - my dd is 3 months and I am in love with her and love our family bed, however I am having a little trouble figuring out the intimacy thing. Currently we share a house with my younger sister, and in a month and a half we will be moving in with my parents, who already share a house with my aunt, uncle, and cousin. [*snip*]
I am hoping to get some support and understanding here. Is there anyone else who cosleeps but does not have the luxury of a guest bedroom, or kitchen/livingroom of their own?

I too live in a multi-generational home. Sometimes I wouldn't have in any other way, and other times it's frustrating. Right now we have one bedroom of our own, and that's it. I almost decked my teen sister for making comments about "noise" at night (truuuust me, she has never even HEARD "noise", okEE?). And she's in another room. Thankfully we are finishing a small suite of rooms downstairs so we will have the option of another room for DTD. So it sounds like we are a little more fortunate than you in that respect. I agree with pp who said "don't borrow trouble". A solution that is right for you and your situation WILL come when you're ready for it.

Originally Posted by Fluffy_Pants

This is a great thread. I think the biggest indicator of your marriage's viability is not where your babies sleep, but how flexible you and your mate are about meeting challenges (ALL challenges). If you have to have things a certain way (whether that is sleeping arrangements, mealtimes, or anything else) you are bound to be disappointed.

:

DH and I haven't made any decisions about nighttime parenting yet, and we don't plan to until we have our LO. But let me just say one thing more.

BED SEX ROCKS. I've had sex anywhere and everywhere. Outside, in public, too many different cars, in a hotel room with four other couples in it, bathrooms, kitchens, washing machines and dryers, on couches, behind couches, in the woods of a national park, whatever, wherever, I've done it. (yes Nerds can have adventurous, awesome sex lives). But there is no where I'd rather be than in the comfort of my own bed. That's right, in bed, missionary style, with my husband. Vanilla? maybe. The most satisfying, fulfilling sexual relationship of my life-definitely. And when it's over, nothing but snuggles all night long.

[crazylady]

Ok guys! Here is my question. I just found out that I am pregnant with our 2nd. What do I do with the 1st? Throw him out? He is not planning on leaving right now but I hear it is not safe for a toddler and newborn to cosleep. So What is the solution????

[Kiddoson]

Originally Posted by crazylady

Ok guys! Here is my question. I just found out that I am pregnant with our 2nd. What do I do with the 1st? Throw him out? He is not planning on leaving right now but I hear it is not safe for a toddler and newborn to cosleep. So What is the solution????

I guess DH would have to sleep in one bed with toddler and me with new baby (beds in same room?). We use a co-sleeper attached to the bed when they are brand new so you could still have toddler in between you and DH. And I suppose you could always keep new LO on the outside after the co sleeper...

[onyxravnos]

Originally Posted by crazylady

Ok guys! Here is my question. I just found out that I am pregnant with our 2nd. What do I do with the 1st? Throw him out? He is not planning on leaving right now but I hear it is not safe for a toddler and newborn to cosleep. So What is the solution????

its just not safe for the toddler and the baby to sleep next to each other. You can still have them in the same bed.

put toddler on dads side and baby with you.