Help? Yarn/dye questions

[cristeen]

I've been selling some of the yarn that I've been dyeing at a LYS. A customer just came back to the store after having stitched up a garment with the yarn, saying that not only had it bled, but that most of the dye had released entirely. How could this happen? I'm very careful to heat set my dyes, and then rinse thoroughly until the water is clear. I feel awful about it, but have no idea what the issue is. Anyone have any ideas?

And if this were to happen to you, what would you want as recompense? I don't know what to offer... all I have is more hand-dye, and apparently it's a bit of a problem at this point.

Help?

[UnassistedMomma]

What is your method for preparing, dyeing and finishing the yarn? What type of yarn is it? (content wise, I mean)

[cristeen]

The yarn is superwash wool. I dye with either food coloring or KA. It gets soaked for about 10 minutes in a warm acidulated water bath, then into a steaming hot dye bath with vinegar, where it usually sits about 20 minutes. Then I pull it out, let it sit until I can handle it, and rinse it in warm water until it runs clear.

[flapjack]

Is this the blue you did, by any chance? (That's you, right? I don't remember where I saw the pictures, though.) 20 minutes doesn't sound like long enough to me, and you didn't mention if there was a source of heat underneath your dye bath?
Did you put washing instructions on your skeins, and did the customer follow them? If so (or if you didn't give instructions) I feel the only avenue available to you is a cash refund. I'd probably refund regardless just as a gesture of goodwill.
Sorry, I know this probably isn't what you want to hear.

[cristeen]

Actually, I have no problem with a cash refund. I'm more concerned with the risk of all the skeins doing this.

And yes, there is a source of heat while dyeing, I leave them on the stove.

I actually have no idea which skein it was, there were 15 of them.

The only thing I can think is if she used a strong laundry detergent on it that it somehow bleached the dyes.

[flapjack]

My customer service head says ask the store to give her a refund in exchange for the skein. Get contact details for her as well. THEN depending on what that skein actually looks like, remove everything else in that colourway from the store and sacrifice a test skein- get five of your friends to put a swatch through their machines for you and see what the results are. Then proceed from there- you may need to do no more than put laundry instructions on them.
Putting this gently, though, as a customer I would never buy from someone who didn't use professional-grade acid dyes for fear of something like this happening. I'm a big believer in having the right tools for the job.

[lnupermom]

Putting this gently, though, as a customer I would never buy from someone who didn't use professional-grade acid dyes for fear of something like this happening. I'm a big believer in having the right tools for the job.

I'm glad you said this. I love dying fisherman's wool with KA and food coloring but I would not expect to be getting homedyed yarn dyed with these from a business selling hand dyes.

[eepster]

I dye with food based dyes freguently (yarn and play silks) it does fine when gently hand washed using a mild detergent in cold water. However, one time DS got one of his silk all mucked up with half eaten fig newton like cookies and the silk needed to be washed vigourously in very hot water with lots of detergent. Most of the dye released. I have other silks that I dyed at the same time and they are fine b/c I only wash them occasionally with cold water.

Since it's superwash, the customer probably believed that meant just toss it in the wash with every thing else. Though I'm sure superwash sells better, the reality is that once dyed with food based dyes it can't be treated like superwash anymore anyway.

[Think of Winter]

Originally Posted by cristeen

And if this were to happen to you, what would you want as recompense? I don't know what to offer... all I have is more hand-dye, and apparently it's a bit of a problem at this point. Help?

Yikes. If I made a garment, washed it according to the instructions, and the dye bled and released, I'd be really unhappy. Replacing the yarn probably wouldn't satisfy me I'm sorry to say A lot of time went into making the garment. You could call and feel her out about it. Maybe money back and some free yarn, and a request to see it? It would be worth it for you to see the item and figure out exactly what happened. Good luck!

[SaLT]

That's a REALLY tough one... I'm a newbie here & a newbie to KA dying. Did my first today & am still waiting for it to dry. I definitely think there needs to be some compensation for the work he/she did on the garment for the sake of your business' reputation regardless if he/she's TOTALLY at fault. However, some ppl will NEVER be happy, once you make 'em mad, they're done with you & they may spread that anger to other potential customers--you'll want to make this up to him/her the best you can. I'd say, ask him/her "what they'd like you to do to make it up to them & you feel TERRIBLE. You value the work they did with your yarn & know there's really no real compensation, but what can you do for them?" etc. I agree with ppl that you shouldn't use food dyes for superwash b/c of that easy misconception of how to treat the wool & also, make sure there are CLEAR instructions on how to care for the garments that have been food-dyed to protect yourself in the future. I hope this all works out for the best. GL girlie!! ;o)

[cristeen]

Thank you for the input, ladies.

The food grade dyes are actually a selling point for my yarns, and they are all labeled clearly as such.

I did go pick up the 5 remaining skeins from the LYS, and I'm knitting up swatches with one of them right now to see if I can duplicate the problem. I've already ran one through a full wash and had almost no fading. I have another in the washer now and a third OTN to try with different wash temperatures. If I can't duplicate the problem with water temperature alone, then I am going to have to suspect laundry detergent as the culprit.

I let the owner of the LYS know that I was willing to do whatever it took to make the customer happy, and she was pleased with that. She gave the customer my email address, but I have not yet heard from her.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by cristeen

I did go pick up the 5 remaining skeins from the LYS, and I'm knitting up swatches with one of them right now to see if I can duplicate the problem. I've already ran one through a full wash and had almost no fading. I have another in the washer now and a third OTN to try with different wash temperatures. If I can't duplicate the problem with water temperature alone, then I am going to have to suspect laundry detergent as the culprit.

When I faded my play silk it had a really long soak in very hot tap water with palmolive dish detergent (it's really hard to get out smooshed in fig.)

[liawbh]

I've never had any fading with food-grade dyes. I soak my yarn in warm water (hot for superwash) with a drop of Dawn or Synthrapol, than squeeze out, soak a few minutes in warm clean water, then in warm water with a generous glug of vinegar.
I also mix cake dye and food coloring with a little more vinegar. I put the dye in a pot with water, add the yarn, and bring the whole thing to just below boiling. Let simmer at least 30 minutes, turn off heat, and let the whole thing cool to at least lukewarm before I take the yarn out. (all of this is for kettle-dyed, solids, and overdyes; I do variegated yarns in the microwave, or in canning jars in a water bath) I rinse a couple of times, then wash the yarn with Eucalan or baby shampoo and rinse again.

If you're getting a lot of fading, I'd say you had either not enough heat, or not enough acid. If the rest of the skeins don't fade, she may have used detergent with bleach.

[Think of Winter]

I have another suggestion, dunno if it would work. You could offer to redye her garment. It won't look the same, but you could get a nice result.

[Camellia]

Isn't superwash wool treated in such a way that it doesn't hold dye like untreated wool? I could be wrong, but that is my guess as to why it isn't holding color.

[cristeen]

No, it's not. It actually takes dye quicker and brighter than regular wool most of the time.

As a quick update, I got the piece and the yarn from her, and the entire piece did not release the dye, just one color washed out. But that one color washing out makes the entire piece looks much more muted than the yarn does. She washed it in cold water and Eucalan, which shouldn't have had that effect at all... I went out and bought some Eucalan to try to replicate the problem. I've done 2 swatches with the yarn she returned and I cannot duplicate it. Both swatches are just as bright as the yarn. So I'm really stumped at this point.

I'm dyeing her a new skein, which is what she asked for, and I think I'll actually run it through a wash cycle in my machine before giving it to her. Beyond that I really don't know what else I can do.

[Camellia]

I don't know if someone has already mentioned this or not, but it could be the chemical make up of her water.

Best of luck to you!