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Was I being petty? - Page 3

post #41 of 103
I think it was ridiculous of your sister to ask for you to JUDGE whether or not to give the clothes to them, and then condemn you for your judgment. IMO. :
post #42 of 103
That would be my initial reaction as well. But on the flip side of that, the circ certainly wasn't the babies choice. Why punish him more than he already has been?
post #43 of 103
I do think it is petty. Just because your sister didn't listen to you and NOT circ. you refuse to give her baby clothes on the merits of it. Would you have given them to her if she didn't circ.? I see your point though w/ the money, but maybe they don't think of it as a cosmetic surgery, some still believe it is better/more hygenic for boys.

I told my family/friends about not vaxing and to research so if something happens to their children or they need something I guess I should tell them 'no' because they spent money and took the time to take them to get shot-up instead of researching.

I'm glad my family doesn't treat me like that because I do NOT do something they tell me too (vaxing, hospital-birth).

If you were never planning on giving it to them whether they did NOT circ. then don't, but if your only reason is because they did. Again I think it is petty.
post #44 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
Those who said it was not petty, would you refuse charity to a parent in need who voluntarily chose to feed formula but had no compelling reason not to exclusively breastfeed?

Would it make a difference in either case if the parents secondguessed their choice after the fact?

Would it make a difference if the prarents were given bad circing or BFing information and made their choice on faulty health care advice?

Would it make a difference if the financial difficulty arose after the decision was made?

If you had no idea the parents made either choice, would you ask them directly before giving them the items and keep them if your requirements were not met?

I'm not debating it, I'm just wondering.

Well first I think there is a BIG difference between parents who choose not to breast feed, and parents who circ. The first is a parenting choice, that arguably would be MUCH better for the child if they did bf. While the other is a human rights violation, simply because it takes away control over ones body.

The main reason why I would object is because I feel it would be like me supporting their decision. (would you give clothing to parents who spent their money on a female circ?) There are not enough active voices in our society that say "circumcision is wrong". Or at least too much silent support. I dont want to make the ramifications of circumcision easier on them. If parents are going to circ (because there is no law in place to stop them) at least I dont have to reward those choices that I think should be illegal.
post #45 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex_millie View Post
I told my family/friends about not vaxing and to research so if something happens to their children or they need something I guess I should tell them 'no' because they spent money and took the time to take them to get shot-up instead of researching.

I'm glad my family doesn't treat me like that because I do NOT do something they tell me too (vaxing, hospital-birth).
Yeah, but there is a BIG difference between someone doing something you dont like, and someone doing something that you think should be illegal.
post #46 of 103
First of all I too am in Canada, and the circ rate here is low, not great but way lower then the states.
Second no I would not give them the clothes. They had to go out of their way to even find someone to do the circ, so they did it all knowing full well what circ is and does.
I have made a choice that I cut ties with people who know better and circ anyway. I will not give clothes, food, or friendship to people who abuse and mutilate their children knowing full well what they are doing is wrong.
Yes I judge, oh well.
post #47 of 103
I don't think your reasoning is necessarily faulty. If they had money to spend on an unnecessary anything (circ, camera, vacation), then they aren't in dire straits and don't desperately need the clothes. So if you're deciding where to bestow the clothes based on financial need, then they wouldn't be at the top of the list.

Is that really what you're basing your decision on, though? I mean, I'd give hand-me-downs to a friend/neighbor if they wanted them, regardless of whether or not they financially *needed* them. If you're still on relatively good terms with them, but holding back the clothes because you're angry, then I think it is somewhat petty. It would be different if you're going to cut them out of your life entirely and have nothing to do with them, but to continue to interact with them and just refuse to give them baby clothes seems a bit silly.

Cutting someone out of your life because they mutilate a child? Appropriate.
Using child mutilation as a reason to not give someone some onsies? Petty and passive agressive.
post #48 of 103
I wouldn't. Thankfully my SIL chose not to (I pestered her about it her whole PG) and I know my sis and her BF won't either. I'd probably wash my hands of both of them if they did. Petty? Maybe but I don't care.
post #49 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharlla View Post
I wouldn't. Thankfully my SIL chose not to (I pestered her about it her whole PG) and I know my sis and her BF won't either. I'd probably wash my hands of both of them if they did. Petty? Maybe but I don't care.
You would disown your sister and future nephews b/c they circumcised? Wow. I guess I will never understand this attitude.
post #50 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
You would disown your sister and future nephews b/c they circumcised? Wow. I guess I will never understand this attitude.
I completely understand the attitude of not being able to be around someone who sexually abuses a baby after being given all the information.
post #51 of 103
I have no respect for someone who knowingly does wrong. You see the videos, you read what all is lost during RIC etc and you STILL circ? Nope, don't want to be around you. I don't believe just because someone is biologically connected to me that they automatically have a right to be part of my family.
post #52 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
You would disown your sister and future nephews b/c they circumcised? Wow. I guess I will never understand this attitude.
I would not disown friends, because I know people are complex, people do good things and bad things and people make mistakes.

BUT, I can completely understand this attitude because I know I would have a really hard time at first being around them, knowing what they did (and were given all the proper information, by me)

How can you not understand her attitude?
post #53 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
Well first I think there is a BIG difference between parents who choose not to breast feed, and parents who circ. The first is a parenting choice, that arguably would be MUCH better for the child if they did bf. While the other is a human rights violation, simply because it takes away control over ones body.

The main reason why I would object is because I feel it would be like me supporting their decision. (would you give clothing to parents who spent their money on a female circ?) There are not enough active voices in our society that say "circumcision is wrong". Or at least too much silent support. I dont want to make the ramifications of circumcision easier on them. If parents are going to circ (because there is no law in place to stop them) at least I dont have to reward those choices that I think should be illegal.
I agree. And I'd probably have the same reaction as the OP.
post #54 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
You would disown your sister and future nephews b/c they circumcised? Wow. I guess I will never understand this attitude.
Yes, the same as I'd disown any close relative of mine who turned out to be a paedophile and into molesting little girls, which is equally despicable behaviour. Why on earth should anyone like that think that their actions are somehow acceptable to normal rational human beings?

I don't think I'm ever going to understand this finding any behaviour acceptable and not saying anything to the perpetrator, just because they happen to be a relative/friend/colleague/someone you met on the bus.

Aren't you ever going to take a stand and advocate for the children being mutilated? How about if their parents decide that beating them up is part of their discipline regime?
post #55 of 103
I don't think its petty or illogical at all. I wouldn't give anything to anyone who was in need because they blew money on a circ, just the same way I told my friend that I would not loan her money for her rent after she blew half her paycheck on pot.

$300 could have clothed that baby for at least a year and he'd still have his foreskin as well... what a waste.
post #56 of 103
I totally agree with you on that note about how much they paid for circ their son, now they want donated clothes? I don't see how someone can support something so wrong! DON'T FEEL BAD!
post #57 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calyxir View Post
:

Part of the reason that this abomination continues is because others keep quiet and there are no consequences for doing it. If these penis-fashionistas thought that their actions were going to be frowned on and that they would be thought of as pariahs in their community they wouldn't do it.

You did good, don't let any circumcision apologists get you down.
: I completely agree with this. What you did was not petty, it was a statement based on your strong moral belief that circumcision is cruel and useless. I would have done the exact same thing. Anyway, it's clothing; it's not like you threw away extra food that would have fed their starving child.
post #58 of 103
Thread Starter 
Rather than quoting a whole lot of replies, I'll answer as many questions as I can remember here.

These are friends of my sister, so acquaintances of mine. They aren't in the same circle of friends as I'm in, and likely the mom won't run into me in my AP parenting circles, since she's not AP at all (already quit breastfeeding too, because her "breasts hurt"). I don't plan to ever see them again, as I'm thoroughly disgusted with the parents. Being young, I never expected them to consider circ'ing, so the original info I gave them was on intact care (since I know the dad is circ'ed...he is my sister's ex-bf's brother). That is when I found out they were circ'ing so I put together a whole bunch of information, to which they replied "well we've already made our decision but we'll read it anyhow."

Both parents are tattoo'ed and pierced all over their body, so a part of me is even more disgusted that they would permanently modify their son's body, but then, a part of me thinks that they obviously were able to make the choice to put holes and ink in their own bodies, why wouldn't they give their son the right to choose?

The baby is not naked, he has clothes, so he won't be wrapped in a potato sack if I don't give him these clothes. And I like how several posters mentioned that people need to do things to let others know that circ'ing is wrong - even if I'm the only person who says no to them for this, at least someone did.

And if my sister had a boy and circ'ed him, it would forever change my relationship with her. I can't even imagine how badly that would wound my heart if she did that to my nephew. I am not sure I would disown her, but I don't think I'd see her outside of family functions, and I would be sure to let her know that I would be helping my nephew find a lawyer when he turns 18 to sue her (for knowing better in the first place and still doing it!). Fortunately, she has recently told me that she would not circ - though it wasn't from my intactivism that changed her mind. It was her close friend who told her that she was sitting in the Dr office waiting for her "turn" to have her son circ'ed, when she heard an awful baby scream that she said "never should a baby make that kind of cry." She promptly walked out with her intact son and now has another intact son too. So I'm glad to know my sister wouldn't do that, but my sis isn't an intactivist, she believes its a parent's decision and doesn't care one way or another.
post #59 of 103
guess i am petty toooo nope wouldnt go to them. they are not in need too bad they were not then maybe the baby would be whole
post #60 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by YesandNo View Post
It would have been kind of you to give them the clothing. You withheld it and instead are giving it to a nameless charity where most / many of the beneficiaries circ'ed anyway. So I'd say it was petty.

In an ideal world, charitable acts should not be contingent upon your approval of the receivers' actions. In other words, you shouldn't just be generous with those who you give the stamp of approval. Then it's not charity, it's a reward.
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjawm View Post
Are you trying to punish the parents and the child?
:

I really like I lot of the stuff I see on MDC about logical consequences- don't have it all down yet, but I'm learning. I know we're talking about adults here, and not children, but I still think it's best to use logical approaches with any age group. Circing and clothing are just NOT related enough to be a logical or natural consequence. (And maybe the OP didn't intend for her decision to be a "consequence", but that's certainly the end result of it.)
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