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Was I being petty? - Page 4

post #61 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhispers View Post
When I think about it, is it any different from no longer supporting charities that might try to start mutilating children in Africa with donations? There are charities I don't think I would be giving money too because they intend to direct the money to circumcision. Is that being petty?

I understand how people feel this is directed at the child but I am not sure I can call it petty. I might consider the parents of the child selfish since they wasted what little money they had on something the child didn't need. Something that perhaps the father wanted done to the child so that he looked like him.

I can see this from both perspectives but at the end of the day I think I would come down on the side of the OP.
I came across this situation this evening. I was at the Dell.ca website and at the add-ons section, a list of printers. One printer choice said that $5 goes towards the fight for AIDS in Africa. It gave me pause for thought on how they're fighting AIDS. If it's to help execute a highly flawed study results and to recklessly promote dangerous sex practices post-circumcision (African men thinking circumcision is an "invisible condom" and/or those who have sex before fully healed), then I won't donate to such a charity. I'm willing to get a full disclosure on how my money is being used before I donate.
post #62 of 103
I don't know if this is helpful or not (???), but I worked at Value Village (aka Savers in most of the U.S. and Australia) and each store is assigned a charity and part of your donation/purchases goes to help those charities' programs. I would do what the OP said and say I cannot donate the clothes based on the matter of principle [if a couple circ's and has no money for food and asks me, then I would say no based on the same matter of principle and tell them where the nearest location of the foodbank is..... which would TICK ME OFF doubly because essentially, they're taking the food out of someone ELSE'S mouth because they spent all their money on a totally cosmetic procedure! See what I mean?]. I would say I'm donating the clothes to Value Village and if they want the clothes, they can buy it from the store, where their purchases help a charity.

I'm w/ the OP on this; and the other poster who said they wouldn't because it shows parents who circ, there's no consequences for their selfish actions and that only lets this horrible practice continue.
post #63 of 103
I think what you really want is for people to tell you you aren't being petty. Problem is, yes, you're being petty. You have every right to be petty, and to do what you like with your property, but it is still petty. Particularly since your sister is asking, not them, you're being petty to her. You could just tell her no, you have another source you want to give them to.

I think you need to decide really, if you want the circing family in your life at all. If not, be clear about that, set the boundary now, don't hang out with them, tell your sister you don't want anything to do with them and will never forgive them, and be done with it. Now, if you'd done this and then your sister asked you to donate clothes to them, I'd say no, you weren't being petty, you were sticking to your principles. But it doesn't sound like that. Or else get over it, be sad, mourn, make your peace with them, and then be friends again, or give them clothes. But don't "stay friends" while making snide comments and jabs and resenting them the whole time. That's not worth it for either one of you.
post #64 of 103
I don't think it's punishing the baby at all. Babies don't like clothes anyway! I doubt he'll notice that his body's naked. On the other hand, I'm sure he's already noticed that his glans is naked. :
post #65 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
I think you need to decide really, if you want the circing family in your life at all. If not, be clear about that, set the boundary now, don't hang out with them, tell your sister you don't want anything to do with them and will never forgive them, and be done with it. Now, if you'd done this and then your sister asked you to donate clothes to them, I'd say no, you weren't being petty, you were sticking to your principles. But it doesn't sound like that. Or else get over it, be sad, mourn, make your peace with them, and then be friends again, or give them clothes. But don't "stay friends" while making snide comments and jabs and resenting them the whole time. That's not worth it for either one of you.
See post #58. I am not "friends" with them, simply acquaintances through my sister, who is friends with them. I don't plan to ever see them again and highly doubt I will run into the mom in my social circles as we are very different.
post #66 of 103
If they can afford cosmetic surgery, they can afford clothes. $300 is a lot of baby clothes at a secondhand store. I'd rather give my stuff to someone who actually CAN'T come up with $300.

And this has nothing to do with circ, it has to do with pissing away $300 on a "luxury" and ignoring a necessity. If $300 can be pissed away, I'd rather my stuff go to someone who doesn't even have the $300 to decide about.
post #67 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelynn View Post
See post #58. I am not "friends" with them, simply acquaintances through my sister, who is friends with them. I don't plan to ever see them again and highly doubt I will run into the mom in my social circles as we are very different.
Then you should have just said no, you had other plans for the clothes. Done. And if pressed, just tell her you've stated your principles before and have other plans for the clothes. And don't feel bad about it either.
post #68 of 103
I'd do exactly what you did, OP, and I'd hope my sister told her friends why. There is no.way. those people would be getting my clothes.

I went to look up "petty", to see if I was understanding it as other people seem to be using it.

1. Of small importance; trivial: a petty grievance.
Circumcision is a big HUGE deal to me. If I'd given the info that the OP gave, and they spent all their money on it knowing it was not necessary and harmful, I would not find that to be a trivial grievance. One vote against petty.
2. Marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views.
Yup. I am narrowminded -singleminded, even- on this topic. Circumcision is wrong. Parents who do it knowing it is wrong do not deserve anything from me. One vote for petty.
3. Marked by meanness or lack of generosity, especially in trifling matters.
No, I'd not keep my clothes to be mean. I'm very generous, but I direct my generosity to areas I think it is most deserved and will be best used for the causes I support. One vote against petty.

Well, it turned out 2 against 1. It's not petty. And if it was, I wouldn't care in the slightest. I judge them harshly and they deserve it, having the inofrmation in hand as they did. I'm with you, OP.
post #69 of 103
I certainly don't donate money or goods to charities that don't support my views. I wouldn't donate to a charity that supports RIC. Why should I donate clothing to a family who did something that I believe is akin to torture? Especially since they are not friends and I will not likely run into them again. Is it petty if an organization calls my house asking for money on behalf of a cause I don't support, and I tell them no?
post #70 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lula's Mom View Post
they deserve it, having the inofrmation in hand as they did. I'm with you, OP.
DH agrees that because they were informed and still chose to do wrong, it's not petty to deny them, esp since it's not a need.
post #71 of 103
I'm like that with those religious feed-the-children charities. Are they like, dangling a meal in front of a hungry/starving child, but first you gotta read The Good Book. Even if it's after, I hope the religion part isn't forced; it should be optional. Besides, the one relgious org, it seems they spend a lot of money on advertising and I'd like to get their overhead to food ratio anyway.
post #72 of 103
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post #73 of 103
circ. is a big deal to me too and i would not be donating anything to anyone who chose to do it...for ANY reason. period.

sorry..if you want my hand me downs....don't mutilate your children. if you want to mutiliate your children, dont expect anythign from me (including kind words, ever).

i cant continue friendships w/ anyone who circ's either. its just really offensive to me (not ppl who dont know better..believe me..ive BTDT...but ppl who have the knowlege, research and still do it? uh, no).
post #74 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
if you want to mutiliate your children, dont expect anythign from me (including kind words, ever).
For those of you with this point of view, when you meet people do you ask whether or not they chose/choose to circ so you can rule them out as friends right off the bat or do you just ditch them later on if it comes up in conversation?
post #75 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
For those of you with this point of view, when you meet people do you ask whether or not they chose/choose to circ so you can rule them out as friends right off the bat or do you just ditch them later on if it comes up in conversation?
See I dont think you understand what they mean. I think your perspective is that we very coldly find out who has circed a son and for no other reason then we think its wrong, we just cut them from our lives.


But for me, I couldn't be friends with them because I would feel sick being around them, knowing what they did, I just couldn't feel comfortable with them, so I would be forced to cut them out of my life in many ways. (Although if they were someone I really cared about, I would try really hard to be comfortable around them again). Like imagine you found out a friend had their daughter circumcised (prepuse removed aka clitoral hood aka foreskin). How would you feel about hanging out with them after learning that.

Parents today have the internet, and information at their finger tips. If I know that someone was presented with correct information, or correct information was right at hand and they ignored it, I would be very uncomfortable being around them, and I would not reward them with clothing for a bad parenting job, and sloppy financial planning.
post #76 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
For those of you with this point of view, when you meet people do you ask whether or not they chose/choose to circ so you can rule them out as friends right off the bat or do you just ditch them later on if it comes up in conversation?
I think there are two cases to consider with regard to this situation. There are those who circumcise out of ignorance. Even today this is a large group and the situation isn't helped by those who should be properly informing parents. Although it is disappointing I think people here would be understanding of that situation while trying to educate. But then there are those who, despite knowing the facts, choose to ignore them and do it anyway. To be honest I have a hard time understanding or forgiving those actions. In the case of the OP, the fact that she is in Canada makes it even worse since the rates are so much lower, she had to pony up the dough, and find a doctor. But should or would people cut them off?

That is an interesting question and I think you'll agree that the opinions will be varied. Unfortunately, in the US where circumcision is endemic, you would be cutting off a lot of people. But I am not sure that is the best reason not to do this. I seem to remember a post on this very board from a member that spent a significant amount of time trying to educate a friend with regard to circumcision; yet the couple did it anyway. For a period of time the MDC member had cut themselves off from this friend but eventually reconnected. At some point the friend confided in this member that it was a horrible experience and after more discussion and education this member convinced her friend that she didn't have to repeat this mistake and the result was at least one subsequent boy was saved.

So the point is simply if we cut people off who make a poor decision, even when we've educated them, we are abandoning hope that we might eventually get to them and possibly condemn future boys to the same fate. Although our message is correct we are fighting a strong cultural current and keep in mind that there are member here that have circumcised one, two, and perhaps sometimes three before the message clicked. As disappointed as we may be it is proabably important that we attempt to continue to educate even those who went the wrong way on this because you never know when it will click. Just something to think about.

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post #77 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
For those of you with this point of view, when you meet people do you ask whether or not they chose/choose to circ so you can rule them out as friends right off the bat or do you just ditch them later on if it comes up in conversation?
no i dont ask. it usually comes up since i have a baby in CD's still....and am prego. w/ another boy. but if i find out they circ., my issue at that point is whether/not they did it out of ignorance (which i have done before..im Jewish and my first 2 are circ'd..its the parenting decision i regret the most). I can understand ignorance..i can NOT understand someone doing it after having all the knowledge...so yeh, i wouldnt continue the friendship. i couldnt.

there was a group recently started in my area and they had some language w/ regard to circ. on their site that i disagreed with...so i didnt join. there is no reason for me to be around that or for those to be around me, since its such a huge issue for me....I see it as nothing more than sexual mutilaton. period.

and there are very very FEW places where i can actually say that....so pls. dont jump down my throat for feeling that way. Its a pretty black and white issue for me (as it mostly is for MDC.....as it is "the case AGAINST circ").

FTR, i do try hard to stay out of this forum b/c i do realize im not a very diplomatic spokesman for this issue. I know i need to work on that.
post #78 of 103
I appreciate the responses. I'm somewhat more moderate on this issue, myself, but I can see where your reasoning lies. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, some of the coments previously were quite...abrupt, shall we say, and I like to see that there has been serious thought behind those comments as opposed to a kneejerk response.

To be honest, I've heard some unflattering desciptions of MDC and its overzealousness in the past and I'm glad to see the generalizations aren't bearing out thus far.
post #79 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by hattifattener View Post
I really like I lot of the stuff I see on MDC about logical consequences- don't have it all down yet, but I'm learning. I know we're talking about adults here, and not children, but I still think it's best to use logical approaches with any age group. Circing and clothing are just NOT related enough to be a logical or natural consequence. (And maybe the OP didn't intend for her decision to be a "consequence", but that's certainly the end result of it.)
But isn't this a logical consequence? Say my child had x amount of money and chose to spend it on sweets instead of clothes. Should I give the child clothes after s/he deliberately spent his/her money on something else? Sweets and clothes aren't in any way related. The relating factor is money, just like it is in the OP's case.

Giving someone what essentially is financial support when they choose to spend the money in a way that I consider immoral isn't something I'd do. If someone came to me asking for a donation (whether it be money or clothes) so that they can afford to circ their kid, I'd say no. Asking me after it's already happened wouldn't result in a different answer. I'm not financing other people's cosmetic surgery.

They had $300 to spend as they wanted to. They chose to spend it on unnecessary surgery. Bed. Made. Lie.
post #80 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lula's Mom View Post
petty
1. Of small importance; trivial: a petty grievance.
Circumcision is a big HUGE deal to me.
Me too.
Used infant clothing, however, is not.

Saying 'you circed, so now I won't give you my hand-me-downs' sort of diminishes how big a deal circ is. It just sounds SILLY, people! I mean, how about 'You molested a child, so I won't let you have a bite of my sandwhich.' Same sort of thing.

I think if the OP had said "They mutilated their child, I don't want to have anything to do with them" that would have been better than "They decided to spend their money on a circ, I'm not giving them my son's clothes". (it sounds to me like maybe the OP is leaning more towards the first statement anyway- it's just that wording it in the second way makes it *sound* petty even if the sentiment isn't)
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