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Was I being petty? - Page 5

post #81 of 103
My son's clothes that he grows out of are actually really special to me and I like to give them to people and families I have warm feeling about. In a place like Canada where people should know better and have to go out of their way to circ. I don't think I'd have many warm feelings about people who circ. Petty perhaps, but the OP's clothes to be petty with.

And as far as not judging. When it comes to child abuse I think we are all free to judge! I'd hate to live in a world where we don't!
post #82 of 103
I totally understand how you feel, OP. I probably wouldn't give the clothes.
post #83 of 103
If yyou don't feel comfortable giving them these clothes then you don't feel comfortable giving them the clothes.

Weree you being petty? Everyone has and will have different opinions but are they going to make you feel differently about the clothes? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it.
post #84 of 103
Here's the deal...you can choose for whatever reason to give or not give your little one's hand-me-downs...you just decided to share with your SIL the reason why you won't give the clothes. I see your reaction more of a way to validate your own feelings. It's not about the clothes, the baby, the parents. It's simply about the circumcision. You are obviously passionate about this and you have every right to be. You've hurt noone...not even yourself...by NOT giving the hand-me-downs. I see nothing wrong with what you decided to do. Sometimes we do need to stand on our beliefs with a loud and clear statement. Sometimes we need to stand our ground with the quietness of silence. Either way, IMO it's perfectly okay how you handled things.
post #85 of 103
If you hadn't have personally told them the truth about circumcision, then, yes...it might have been a petty thing to do. However, because you took the time to inform them and they still did it...I don't consider it petty at all. Several hundred dollars could have gone a long way to pay for baby clothes if they were really THAT in need...
post #86 of 103
I don't think you're being petty at all.

I am a bit confused about those who say that when you're giving the clothes to charity you're giving them to people you don't know who circ'ed or not.

I think that's not really the point.

I don't know what they have in Canada. But, if you do something like, give the clothes to goodwill, or the samaritan thrift shop (don't know if that's everywhere or not, and i'm only assuming that's what you meant when you said giving the clothing to a charity...) you're not 'GIVING' the clothes to people who are buying them who may or may not have circ'ed their boys.

you are giving the clothes to the goodwill society, or the samaritan church. the people who purchase the clothes (who may or may not have circ'ed) or not getting the clothing for free. they are giving that money to the charity society that's hosting the thrift store.

the people who may or may not have circ'ed their boys who are buying the clothes get a small benefit from purchasing the clothes at a discount. the main benefit is going in the form of $$$ to the charity you gave the clothes to.

so i think it's a huge difference between handing over the clothing directly to "needy" people for free who just finished forking the $$$ out for this cosmetic surgery and giving the clothing to a charity.

I think a lot of posters are missing the point. It's not about seeing your clothing on people who did something horrible to their sons. It's about finances, really, is what it boils down to. The OP has every right to make sure the financial boost of her clothing goes wherever she'd prefer it to. She's not "punishing" the parents or the baby by not giving them the clothing. It's about the fact that they didn't need the clothing if they had $$$ for the circ.
post #87 of 103
It looks to me like part of what's "fanning the flames" and polarizing this debate is the characterization of the clothing donation as an "act of charity".

I get second-hand kids clothes from people all the time. I'm very certain that not one of these thoughtful friends or family members have ever imagined they've been making a charitable donation in giving kids clothes to me! Not every act of kindness or example of sharing is "charity".

Similarly, witholding a kindness is not usually “punishing” someone and I don’t think it is here, either. If that were the case, just think of how unspeakably unkind each of us is every single day! Anything nice we did for anyone would equate to a series of “punishments” to all the people who weren’t recipients!

On the practical side of this “punishment”, CherryBomb said it best:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
I don't see how it's "punishing" the baby to not give the baby free clothes that belong to her. Unless the baby is going to be butt ass naked if the OP doesn't hand over all of her clothes, that's just a ridiculous accusation. It's not like they share a rare blood type and he needs a transfusion from her 
Seriously, although there is poverty in Canada, we are a first-world country. Every baby in Canada has clothing. Between thrift stores and garage sales, families struggling on social assistance can provide their kids with minimally-adequate wardrobes.

I’ll take a minute to address the questions of Em:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
Those who said it was not petty, would you refuse charity to a parent in need who voluntarily chose to feed formula but had no compelling reason not to exclusively breastfeed?
Possibly. My money, my time, my talents are all limited resources. As such, I don’t think it’s inappropriate to direct them to where I see (or think) they will do the most good. If I understand that my [insert resource of your choice] will make a difference in one case, and be a “passing blip” in another situation, I choose making a difference. If I have enough to give that I don’t have to make a choice, then grand. However, this is not usually the case.

Now in the specific example you’ve given - formula feeding - I wouldn’t be able to decide superficially that someone “voluntarily chose”. To be able to make a choice, one has to understand the different options. Of the formula-feeding moms I’ve seen who might qualify for charity, any I can remember were obviously quite socially- and educationally-disadvantaged. That’s not usually fertile ground for choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
Would it make a difference in either case if the parents secondguessed their choice after the fact?
It might. See my above comment about scarcity of my charitable resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
Would it make a difference if the prarents were given bad circing or BFing information and made their choice on faulty health care advice?
Yes. I give a lot more leeway to someone who has tried to do the right thing, or research her options, or whatever - versus the person who just “took it lying down” and made little/no effort to actively participate in her own life/partner’s life/children’s lives. We all make mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
Would it make a difference if the financial difficulty arose after the decision was made?
Yes, probably. In this case, the sister cited the family’s “need” in soliciting the donation of the clothes. “Needing” donated kids clothing hot on the heels of paying $300 to put a child through a painful and mutilating cosmetic procedure is laughable. I’d say they “need” the second-hand clothes about as much as I “need” a spa weekend away from my kids! (Heck, I might even "need" that spa weekend more! )

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
If you had no idea the parents made either choice, would you ask them directly before giving them the items and keep them if your requirements were not met?
No, I would not ask directly about circumcision or formula feeding as a criteria before passing baby items on to someone. To a point, I might try to follow a strategy of “attracting more bees with honey” in terms of their parenting choices that differ from my own. But in this case, I think the history of the original poster having exchanged information with the parents, and the parents showing casual disregard for a very serious violation of their son’s body makes it not only “ok” but compelling for her to steer clear of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
You would disown your sister and future nephews b/c they circumcised? Wow. I guess I will never understand this attitude.
As relationships evolve, you get those little clues about whether the bond is growing or fading. For me, an active/current pro-circ stance would be a big ‘ol sledgehammer upside the head in terms of being a clue about the prospects for the relationship. A decision like that does not exist in insolation, in an otherwise shared view of parenting and humanity between that parent and me.

Last year, friends of ours (whom we are very close to, and who had previously not circ’d) were planning on circ’ing their new baby. This was the result of a crappy, botched “medically necessary” circ of their 5-year-old son. I will never understand the reasoning that in an effort to protect the baby, they were willing to ensure he suffered the same pain. I’m pretty sure it would have destroyed the friendship.

My sister got breast implants when she was quite young. I’m not saying they’re always a bad thing, but in her life at that time, the move made my husband and I really unhappy. She and I had had a struggling relationship over the years. We didn’t abruptly disown her after it happened. But it was “the beginning of the end” in being a major sign that we just weren’t on the same page at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
Yeah, but there is a BIG difference between someone doing something you dont like, and someone doing something that you think should be illegal.


Original Poster: you done good!
post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
You have every right to give or not give away your clothing, but your reasoning is petty. If they were asking for money to get the procedure done, that would be a completely appropriate response, but the circ and the clothing are too unrelated to try to connect them, IMO.

I'm sure others will disagree.
You're exactly right, I do disagree with you . In my opinion, if the OP is to start giving that couple gifts and acting all "buddy-buddy" they might take that as a sign that everything is fine and the circ was no big deal. Nope, I agree with Raelynn, if they could scrape together a few hundred dollars to slice their baby, they can go to a secondhand store and buy some clothes.
post #89 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by prothyraia View Post
Cutting someone out of your life because they mutilate a child? Appropriate.
Using child mutilation as a reason to not give someone some onsies? Petty and passive agressive.
I don't think there's that big of a difference between your two examples.
post #90 of 103
I would be torn on this. But I would probably do the same. They need to decide what is important for their son. If they pick cruel unnecessary surgery instead of clothes, that's their business.

Then again, there's also the argument that it's the son who has suffered from the circumcision, and will also suffer if they can't afford clothes and the like.

But personally I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a favour to people like that (especially as you know you gave them information etc)
post #91 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon Feimorgan View Post
I don't think it's unrelated. If they chose to spend money on an unnesissary and harmful surgery rather than on kids clothes or whatever, that's not the op's fault. I feel strongly about circ as do many here and I do judge. I'm not afraid to say that.
Yep, I agree. They could have bought a lot of clothes for $300 and the fact they took that money to have their baby harmed instead makes me sick.
post #92 of 103
Raelynn, I do NOT think that your sister calling you "petty" was justified. You invested time, energy and emotion in this couple who totaly disregarded your "help" the first time around. I would feel exactly the same way as you do.
post #93 of 103
I have to throw my hat in the ring here

I think you are not being petty at all. The clothes are yours to give to whomever you please for whatever reasons you please. Hand me downs, to me, are not charity but a gift. I personally would never gift something especially something I had emotional attachments to, to someone who I don't see favorably.


I have to agree with the poster (and forgive me I forget who you are, there are so many to read!) who made the comment about 'concequences' of circumcision. I personally feel that circumcision and the discussions of circumcison have become so 'pc' and people are so concerned with upsetting someone by discussing it that the whole issue becomes watered down. I feel that we are not allowed to show 'disapproval' or g-d forbid judgement over circumcision lest it offend someone or question an *ahem* belief.

Again, my very personal feeling is that circumcison is very wrong. I eqate it with child abuse, and have no problem saying so. As long as we keep saying that it's a parents decision to make, and that it's a choice at all, it remains both. As long as we tell our children that some parents choose to circumcise because XYZ, we continue the pattern that circumcision is a parenting decsion and not a breach of every child's basic human rights. If you are not saying it's wrong than you are (quietly) saying it's ok.

I think the whole thing with the OP boils down to whether you think it's ok to show your disapproval to those who circ.
post #94 of 103
Not petty at all. Instead of worrying about paying someone to mutilate their son they should have been spending the money on some clothing for him.
post #95 of 103
i dont think its petty. circumcision is expensive and if they can pay for an elective surgery, they can go down to goodwill and get their child some clothes. i think i would have a hard time hearing about how "o we're so poor" from a family that circs their sons. its like when moms say "i dont have the money to feed my kids!" as they smoke cigarettes. i would feel more comfortable donating my things to an anonymous charity.
post #96 of 103
I understand the OP's feelings...to me it seems like donating clothing (which has monetary value) to people who paid to circ, would feel like I was helping to pay for the circ. Of course we would never give someone actual money and say here, just wanted to help you out to pay to get your kid circ'd...but that's one way to look at it.
post #97 of 103
Money problems or not...I wouldn't give that couple a darn thing. Why would I give people I don't like gifts?
post #98 of 103
I have to agree, if they can spend $300 on uneccesary surgery instead of clothes...pft. Thats like...spending money on getting your babies ears pierced instead of buying clothes or going to the movies instead of buying clothes or...I could go on. This is worse though imo. A lot worse.

I'm expecting my 4th in september. I got all of his 0-3 month clothes for under $100, new. If you add that up, they should be able to cloth their baby for a full year for that $300 they wasted on circing.

I'm not saying punish the child, but as I see it-if they can come up with $300 for circing, they can come up with $300 for a year of clothing. And this is coming from someone who is often very broke :P.
post #99 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveChild421 View Post
Money problems or not...I wouldn't give that couple a darn thing. Why would I give people I don't like gifts?
LOL. You know, when it comes down to it, I think it's about as simple as that. I don't know why anybody is trying to judge you for it. More likely than not, the people who said you were being petty would avoid giving gifts to someone they don't like, also. This is no different, and it's not like the boy is going to go clothesless for it. And to be sure, you have a good reason for not liking them. They knowingly mutilated their son.
post #100 of 103
they live in canada with you right & no insurance covers it & is it correctly that circumcision around there in circ clinic cost around the 500 to 700 $ in canadian dollars which canada is more 'higher cost than usa' . I would 'agree if they could come up with at least 500$ for a unneccesary circumcision but begging for 'clothes' because they 'don't have the money.

I live only on a 1500 income -take taxi's, get wic,get some 'fast food & alot of toys for my boy btw I have no job and am a single mom . I'm for sure any charity 'shops' like our place has a thing where you can collect 6 pieces of clothing for free each time you come in & garage sales are pretty 'cheap' to get clothes for one dollar or to 2 dollars possibly some could be 5 $

I would choose to donate to 'someone at a 'charity who I believe who wouldn't be able to 'afford it' just like I rather not know 'someone is smoking & say they have no money for food or for clothes then when they get the 'money' they buy cigarettes instead of stuff for 'kids'
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