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Touchy subject about Grandma and toddler...(supporT only please, sorry so long) - Page 4

post #61 of 93
Maybe you could be very specific with her, so there isn't any grey area for her to wiggle around in.

"Mom, please don't hold him like that. I'd much rather you held him like this-" Take your son from her and demonstrate. (If she tries to prevent you from taking him, btw, this is a signal that she has very serious boundary issues.) If she wants to know why her way is wrong, be specific again. "DH and I don't feel it is appropriate to hold him by his genitals. We want him to know that that part of his body is private." If she persists, well, you'll know something is really wrong.
post #62 of 93
everyone has already given you great advice i just wanted to add... my mother also has ridulous boundary issuesnot in a sexual way in the your my baby thats your baby so that much make him mine also kind of way grr!...be clear, be firm, be consistent, and if you have to remind her more then once leave. if the constant requests to watch your DC are driving you batty set clear boundaries about that as well.

also saw pp mention about your will... i woluld agree with that as well. my FIL creeps me out.... bigtime.. in that if you even look at DS wrong i'll kick your creepy weird butt out of my house kind of way. one of the first things we did when DS was born was make a will stating who DS guardians will be if anything happens to us (and two back up guardians just in case). But also stating all visits with my inlaws must be in the presence of DS legal guardian. DH has never told me outright that his father did anything but he thinks this is a good arrangement. we have also never told his parents about the added line.

trust your intuition.. you have it for a reason and dont be afraid to stand up for yourself in a bigway. your first obligation is to your DC and yourself
post #63 of 93
I agree with several other pp's, read "Protecting the Gift".

I think it is really great that you are listening to that little voice even if you can't totally pinpoint where it is coming from. That is how our instincts work.

As far as some of the other posters saying that they don't think what she is doing is out of the ordinary for her age group; it may not be out of the ordinary, but what is out of the ordinary is the OP's creepy feeling. I think those feelings need to be listened to.
post #64 of 93
Thread Starter 

Husband is not really on board with this.

That much is apparent, when tonight, I was expressing some misgivings about taking care of ds probably combined with a whole lot of hormonal emotion, he chastises me for "not letting anyone help me", that i'm "burning out" and "trying to do it on my own"...

...............which leaves me with what options, exactly?

And of course he's talking about how I need to let my mom help more.



My husband always does this crap. He makes like he's on board with something and then weeks later reveals that he's not.

I keep explaining to him about my intuition and that I thought I was trying to keep my child safe from that by only doing occassional supervised visits.

I think, based on his comments, my intuition doesn't really mean a hill of beans because nothing backs it up...even though he is weirded out by her behavior as well.

It's like: how am I supposed to protect him until he's potty trained and allow her to keep him at the same time?

He's like, "well, who else is there?" I don't know many people or have many friends whom I'd trust to take care of him.

the whole world is against me and i'm starting to suspect that maybe I'm the crazy one. nothing makes sense anymore.
post #65 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post
.

the whole world is against me and i'm starting to suspect that maybe I'm the crazy one. nothing makes sense anymore.




Maybe it feels that way IRL. But here on this board you have a WHOLE lot of mamas who are saying YOU'RE NOT CRAZY! Stick to your guns.

Perhaps you could post in "Finding Your Tribe" for help with childcare. I'd help you if you were close to me! (I'm in Utah.)
post #66 of 93
see if you can get your dh to read the book too. i have more thoughts, will post later.
post #67 of 93
Thread Starter 
So, I talked to him more about it, and two things that always seem to play in his mind in situations like this is

a) The "his/our fault/responsibility" part in it...this stems from issues with his own mom. He wants to know basically what we can do to resolve the situation...basically that it needs to be talked about or forgotten about. That basically if we don't talk about the situation with them then it doesn't exist. This situation is different because I'd feel highly uncomfortable discussing it with my parents.

b) Afraid of the whole thing blowing up later. That "it's noticable" when I swoop in to handle diaper changes and whatnot at their house...and that my mom told him "it's like she doesn't want me to touch him anymore!!".....

I had to explain to him that the fact that she even noticed bothered me. If I took care of a kid that was not my kid and my motives were pure and innocent, and all of a sudden a mom wanted to start acting like a mom and handle certain responsibilities with that kid, why would I even notice? It's not my kid, it's a mom being a mom. There are other aspects of my mom's relationship with my child that totally oversteps boundaries. She wants to be "mom" when I'm there, in regards to discipline and in regards to feeding and all sorts of other stuff. I don't mind the feeding...I DO mind the discipline...if I'm present, it's my jurisdiction, no matter who the child is offending. Other than diapering and discipline, she does EVERYTHING that she's always done grandmotherly: that is to say, getting on the floor and playing with him and feeding him and being generally grandmotherly. Everything else is the same as it has always been. Why does it matter all of a sudden to her, that she would even NOTICE that lately I've been handling all diapering?

He was also basically blaming ourselves because dealing with hard to deal with grandparents seem to be our lot in life. When BOTH sets of grandparents are starting to go buck wild (his mom and dad are divorced, his mom is ragingly narcissistic, and his dad is verbally abusive to dh now and has physically abused his children in the past), he starts to look at himself and think, maybe he IS wrong.

I had to tell him that they are bringing this on themselves. I know for a fact that some of the stuff my mom is expecting me to suck it up and deal with when it comes to my kid and her and disciplining him when I'm right there, she would NEVER EVER tolerate from her own mother with us as children. I just know this. I had to ask him did he think the restrictions I had set up were unreasonable...he's like, no. Which is: no unsupervised visits until the kid is potty trained. and...if i'm present, discipline belongs to me. period. (which seems to be the latest thing they can't handle because lately I'm always present.) He said this makes sense.

So, I told him he needs to stop blaming himself and us if our parents are getting their panties in a wad. We are just being parents. And he's kinda ok with it now.

He says that I'm overworked and whatnot, he said that he meant we need to look into options for a bit of help with the kid from time to time, even if that is not my mom. That I could understand....so that's our next course of action right now.
post #68 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post
Which is: no unsupervised visits until the kid is potty trained.
.
How to say this gently.


Mama, I don't know if your mom is sexually abusive or not. I'm not entirely sure if the person in my life (I mentioned previously) is abusive or not, either. But, like the book states, once you get those "weird" feelings, you know all you need to know. Even if you don't know more. Even if you don't WANT to know more. You still know all you need to know. You know that you don't want to take any chances.


Which means: no unsupervised visits, ever.


Even after he's potty trained, she could sit him on her lap for "story time" or whatever, and still be touching him inappropriately.


It totally sucks that you have problems with both sets of grandparents, but...

1) It's not your fault

and 2) Look at the bright side......you and dh managed to find each other and make a great family despite all the chaos in your families of origin.

It makes sense, in a way, that you have problems with both sets of grandparents; perhaps that's one way in which you and dh connected--you could relate to each other's life growing up (even if you didn't consciously realize this.)



And if this "blows up," as you put it, don't back down and don't give in. You don't have to specifically tell your parents what you are feeling, but you can say that you've decided you won't be using them for childcare any more and any visits they have with your ds will be family visits with you there, too. And again, I'd seriously look at moving at least an hour away if possible.
post #69 of 93
Thread Starter 
Ok...as for the "ever" part.

I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. As a kid, I never had any kind of problem or intuitive misgivings about my mom after a kid was older, verbal, and able to go into the bathroom handle their own business, and come out with absolutely no assistance whatsoever.

I think, at that point, she woud feel it would be a bit noticable for her to join in to "help" at that point.

My main "issues" with her revolve about young, preverbal, needing-assistance-with-diapering/pottying babes, that still are small enough to be picked up and held. Not so much with, say, 5/6 year olds on up.

I mean, at this point I feel like I need to be cautious of her, but I simply don't see her as some kind of predator once a child is beyond a certain point of making her uncomfortable. "Grandma! Why are you doing this or that? I can do it myself!"

I remember one time when I was in the 1st grade, and my mom was.......um...helping me get clean for before school. I kept giggling because I told her that it tickled when she cleaned me. She looked like some one had just exposed her deepest darkest secret, and I was alone by myself in the bathroom from that day forward.

I just "know" my mom. Just like I know how she is now that my kid is young, I "know" how she is after a child gets a certain age. She's a prude x1million. Once a kid is verbal enough to start to ask her uncomfortable questions (and she gets EXTREMELY uncomfortable EXTREMELY quick), and be capable of handling their business themselves, she basically runs away from "inappropriate helping" like a frightened deer. After that point, I just can't say I have any kind of misgivings about them staying with her for a short visit after that. I just don't. What I DO have reservations about with her is young preverbal potty training kids, but nothing really beyond that. I DO know and would confidently feel that my kid would be safe after that point for a visit.

I hope that doesn't make you moms here who have been so wonderful at supporting me and helping me sort through this thus far feel that I'm a totally inadequate mom for feeling that way. I just know my mom, that's all...like a book. Right now, I'm not doing unsupervised visits. I guess what I'll do is not have a specific age/cutoff point for that right now...but I do know that the day will come, one day, that I'll feel more comfortable with allowing them once my kids are past the age of being dependant on somebody for help and being able to clearly speak up and be a bit more independant. I'll just let the future happen and see how I feel about it later, I guess.

And even as I'm checking on this thread, i'm on craigslist looking for a way to check out of this town. I defintely don't feel comfortable living near them anymore at this point.


I'm sorry if that came out all in a jumble, but I'm tired and my pregnant brain heightens in levels of density when I'm sleepy, so perhaps tomorrow I'll come in reread and rephrase if I said something wrong.
post #70 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post
I remember one time when I was in the 1st grade, and my mom was.......um...helping me get clean for before school. I kept giggling because I told her that it tickled when she cleaned me. She looked like some one had just exposed her deepest darkest secret, and I was alone by myself in the bathroom from that day forward.
yipes, honey! sounds like you were sexually abused. and this is what a predator of young children would do. they get you before you can speak for yourself. i'm so sorry that this happened to you.

and what you wrote about your husband being the child of a narcissistic and abusive set of parents. well, they say the child of the narcissist has it the "worst". it sounds to me like he's been so brow-beaten that he's not seeing things for how they really are.

and let's not forget you have a second child coming, one with several years of diapering ahead of him or her. if, as it sounds like to me, your mom gets her kicks out of "tickling" the genitals of little kids, then her "prudishness" is her cover story, the face she shows to those old enough to know that "tickling" is totally inappropriate sexual stimulation of children.

if this is how it is with her, i would have no way of knowing what happened to cause this compulsion in her. but to knowingly let it go on would seem to facilitate it continuing in future generations of your family.

happily, you seem to be coming to a place of realization and i give you so much credit for that. it's the first step in recovery from the trauma *you* suffered. and critical to preventing your children from suffering it as well.

is there any possible way you can find yourself a good talk therapist to work with you on finding your way through this situation? you might have to try a few but i've found with the issues i've dealt with (divorce, depression), the most expensive are not necessarily the best. it was about 10 years ago for me, but i found a great talk therapist who was only $20 an hour. and it helped so much to have an uninvolved impartial supporter who is schooled in these kind of "family" issues. my ex husband has addiction to porn and while this is different than what you're dealing with, it has some of the same elements. and it affects you when you are a close personal relation with a person with this type of problem. it might be possible that this could be a real healing opportunity for you.

i encourage you to check it out and by all means keep posting here. everybody is rooting for you to find your true voice and spirit... to find your way out of the forest of darkness so to speak.
post #71 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post

I just "know" my mom.


Really? Then why'd you ever leave a kid with her in the first place?

I think you're still in denial.

And while getting over denial is painful, I hope you do it fast enough to protect your kids.
post #72 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Really? Then why'd you ever leave a kid with her in the first place?

I think you're still in denial.

And while getting over denial is painful, I hope you do it fast enough to protect your kids.
Ouch. Short and painful. And dismissive of everything else I said.

I AM protecting my child right now while he's vulnerable and needs protecting. After he gets to a certain age of independance in certain departments, he no longer needs my protection *from her*. As I mentioned, after I became old enough to remember stuff, to discuss stuff, her behavior totally ceased. The queasiness I felt around her being around little babies and toddlers went away once those same kids grew old enough to speak very well and take care of themselves.

I'v never felt comfortable leaving him with her when he was much younger...I did it against my comfort level because I had to work, and I did not see anything that confirmed that my "feelings" were on point. Once I started to see little hints that justified my feelings I quit my job and became a sahm again (even though doing it right now puts us an a financial tightening...)

I guess now that I'm looking toward the future of the situation with clearer eyes and can see "when" my mother is a danger and when she's not, since I'm not seeing her as a danger but as a harmless old woman once my kids get past a certain age, I'm a unprotective mother? LIke what I'm trying to do up to that point means nothing? I guess I was pretty sure once I revealed that she's not a threat after my kids are verbal and past a certain age the conversation would go this way.

I'm sitting here trying to figure out, if I "seem to be" open minded enough now to explore my intuitive tugs, as mysterious as they are, about leaving my child with my mom for now, and to act on those intuitions, why would I completely turn my back on that same open mindedness and those same intuitive feelings if they were there in the future? I wouldn't do that, unless those same feelings of danger were not there after a certain point.

I guess what I'm saying is, as it stands now, we'll leave things like they are, no unsupervised visits, and we're moving away. I'll reinvestigate these feelings in the future and see if I feel the same way. I trust myself that if I still have bad feelings even when my child is older and more verbal and more independant, that I'll act on those feelings the same way as I'm doing now by continueing the no unsupervised visits stand.

ElliesMom
YOu are on point when it comes to my husband being the child of a narcissist. He's conditioned to believe nothing is ever a parent's fault, always his. His mother could do anything she wanted to him, and if he never "spoke up", no matter how awful whatever she did obviously was, it was as if it never happenned. That is his mind play he's trying to play out right now. Since my parents are getting a little bit annoyed, and we haven't "sat down and told them" what bothers us, then to him, shouldn't it be as if stuff never happenned? We should all act happy and normal? He used to be awful about this, but he's getting MUCH better about it, and can at least at this point, when I sit down and discuss with him stuff, identify when he's doing this.

As for having another child on the way, nope. She won't be babysitting this child alone for a long long time to come. For this reason, and also to kinda slim down the issues I have with her with my other kid, I'm trying to move away from here.

My husband has been talking about me talking to some one to work through this, and I'm still considering it. I don't know why goign to some one to talk about it is giving me such hesitation. I have not problems going to seek help for other issues i have, like for my ad/hd, or my depression. for some reason, the thought of going to see so me one specifically to talk about this problem gives me pause. I AM going to do it though. I have to find some one I trust.
post #73 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabysmom617 View Post

I AM protecting my child right now while he's vulnerable and needs protecting. After he gets to a certain age of independance in certain departments, he no longer needs my protection *from her*. As I mentioned, after I became old enough to remember stuff, to discuss stuff, her behavior totally ceased. The queasiness I felt around her being around little babies and toddlers went away once those same kids grew old enough to speak very well and take care of themselves.

I've never felt comfortable leaving him with her when he was much younger...I did it against my comfort level because I had to work, and I did not see anything that confirmed that my "feelings" were on point.

I guess now that I'm looking toward the future of the situation with clearer eyes and can see "when" my mother is a danger and when she's not, since I'm not seeing her as a danger but as a harmless old woman once my kids get past a certain age, I'm a unprotective mother? Like what I'm trying to do up to that point means nothing? I guess I was pretty sure once I revealed that she's not a threat after my kids are verbal and past a certain age the conversation would go this way.
But who's to say that your child is actually *going to* speak up when grandma touches him inappropriately? What if your son is compliant in it? Too ashamed to say anything? Too nice to hurt grandma's feelings? I'm pretty sure that's how sexual molesters work.

And really, do you ever want him to be in that situation where he has to be the one protecting himself from grandma? It's your job to protect him, no matter how old or verbal or independent he is.

I know you plan on moving away and staying away from her as much as you can, but I really think you need to consider no unsupervised visits EVER.
post #74 of 93
Thread Starter 
ugh. nevermind.
post #75 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShannonT View Post
But who's to say that your child is actually *going to* speak up when grandma touches him inappropriately? What if your son is compliant in it? Too ashamed to say anything? Too nice to hurt grandma's feelings? I'm pretty sure that's how sexual molesters work.

And really, do you ever want him to be in that situation where he has to be the one protecting himself from grandma? It's your job to protect him, no matter how old or verbal or independent he is.

I know you plan on moving away and staying away from her as much as you can, but I really think you need to consider no unsupervised visits EVER.
:


And, FTR, I didn't dismiss you. Just disagreed with you.
post #76 of 93
First of all, I completely sympathize re: your feelings that your mother is trying too hard to "mother" rather than "grandmother" your son. I felt from the beginning of my pregnancy that I would need to work hard to make sure that we did not slip into this kind of situation with my mother, and she knows my feelings (I explained them briefly, preemptively, when I told her that I didn't want her to come stay with us postpartum). My mom was always a SAHM, and my brothers left for college 2 mos after DD was born, so I knew she was going through empty-nesting and would probably try to find an uncomfortable-for-me amount of fulfillment in DD. Thankfully, my mom has tried very hard to honor my feelings, but it still bothers me a teensy bit when she says things like, "You're my heart!" "You're my girl!" "I have never been so happy in my whole life!" I don't suspect that my mom would ever, ever do anything to hurt DD. Nevertheless, her devotion (almost obsession) is just so out there. I guess it brings up feeling that I had as a child that I could never really love my mother enough to make up for all the sacrifices she made for me, and I don't want DD to feel the same burden.

Also, I know what you mean about the diaper changing/potty training. I told everyone from the beginning that there was never any reason for anyone else to change DD if I were in the area (I even left instructions for nursery workers never to change her but to page me in church). Even when she was a newborn, I felt like this was establishing a good principle of protecting her privacy.

Finally, re touching which is really inappropriate. I have read "Protecting the Gift," and I thought it was really helpful. If anything, I think I am too concerned about the possibility of my child being abused in some way. I have no reason to suspect anyone in my family, have never had any bad intuition, etc, but I still wonder if I will ever feel comfortable leaving her alone with her uncles or fathers of friends. My own mom used "the talk" as an opportunity to warn me about molestation, and for a long while I was really terrified of men. I didn't want my dad to kiss me goodnight, etc--- the existence of sex was very scary for me. I don't want to communicate these fears to my DD, but I don't think that the concern is invalid. It's just a hard issue. Which leads back to your problem, I think--
The sexuality of children is a very difficult topic to think/talk about (because if we worry so much about abuse it overly sexualizes them, but if we ignore it "who knows what might happen". I know there are lots of different views (freudian, kinsey-an (however you spell that...), and more traditional views of innocence/experience). I think sometimes adults, even without knowing it, are fascinated by the "innocence" of children and by the power that the adult has in seeing the child's nakedness while the child does not understand what it all means (this is realy convoluted, but I'm working through these ideas myself). My mom once said, while looking at my daughter naked during a diaper change, "Oh, just look at her little body!" It made me uncomfortable, and not because I suspected that my mom would ever do anything untoward-- just because it seemed (weirdly, because she certainly didn't care) like an invasion of my daughter's privacy.
If your mother had a bad relationship withr her own father, and if her mother was also crazy, then she may be exploiting this feeling of power by interacting way too much with your son's "nakedness" (and I deliberately use that word instead of "penis," because it sounds to me like more of a power issue than a sexual issue. Mothers have a bodily intimacy with their children which no one else (except a spouse, really) ever experiences-- carrying them, birthing them, nursing them, etc-- your mother seems like she is trying to claim that sort of intimacy with your son. As an aside to that, I read a set of parenting stories (I think maybe this was by Meg Wolitzer? or an interview with her?), and she talks about how it really was weird when she realized that her sons did not want to be naked around her anymore. It was a sign they were growing up, and as stange asit was to see modesty/not-seeing-my-son's-penis-anymore as a milestone, it kindof became one.

All of that is to say-- I think the people saying, "you were sexually abused" or "she's going to abuse your son" are perhaps overreacting. It's true, nothing is more important than protecting your son, and it does seem like your mother has seriously boundary issues, and you would need to address those whatever the manifestation. Your mother is exerting too much ownership over your son's body-- that should be stopped. But I think your feeling (that she only does this with young children) makes a lot of sense. Once they reach that point of modesty/awareness/etc that Wolitzer recognized in her own sons, whatever she's getting out of it also disappears.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. It sounds very hard-- and it's too bad your H isn't more supportive.
post #77 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
First of all, I completely sympathize re: your feelings that your mother is trying too hard to "mother" rather than "grandmother" your son. I felt from the beginning of my pregnancy that I would need to work hard to make sure that we did not slip into this kind of situation with my mother, and she knows my feelings (I explained them briefly, preemptively, when I told her that I didn't want her to come stay with us postpartum). My mom was always a SAHM, and my brothers left for college 2 mos after DD was born, so I knew she was going through empty-nesting and would probably try to find an uncomfortable-for-me amount of fulfillment in DD. Thankfully, my mom has tried very hard to honor my feelings, but it still bothers me a teensy bit when she says things like, "You're my heart!" "You're my girl!" "I have never been so happy in my whole life!" I don't suspect that my mom would ever, ever do anything to hurt DD. Nevertheless, her devotion (almost obsession) is just so out there. I guess it brings up feeling that I had as a child that I could never really love my mother enough to make up for all the sacrifices she made for me, and I don't want DD to feel the same burden.

Also, I know what you mean about the diaper changing/potty training. I told everyone from the beginning that there was never any reason for anyone else to change DD if I were in the area (I even left instructions for nursery workers never to change her but to page me in church). Even when she was a newborn, I felt like this was establishing a good principle of protecting her privacy.

Finally, re touching which is really inappropriate. I have read "Protecting the Gift," and I thought it was really helpful. If anything, I think I am too concerned about the possibility of my child being abused in some way. I have no reason to suspect anyone in my family, have never had any bad intuition, etc, but I still wonder if I will ever feel comfortable leaving her alone with her uncles or fathers of friends. My own mom used "the talk" as an opportunity to warn me about molestation, and for a long while I was really terrified of men. I didn't want my dad to kiss me goodnight, etc--- the existence of sex was very scary for me. I don't want to communicate these fears to my DD, but I don't think that the concern is invalid. It's just a hard issue. Which leads back to your problem, I think--
The sexuality of children is a very difficult topic to think/talk about (because if we worry so much about abuse it overly sexualizes them, but if we ignore it "who knows what might happen". I know there are lots of different views (freudian, kinsey-an (however you spell that...), and more traditional views of innocence/experience). I think sometimes adults, even without knowing it, are fascinated by the "innocence" of children and by the power that the adult has in seeing the child's nakedness while the child does not understand what it all means (this is realy convoluted, but I'm working through these ideas myself). My mom once said, while looking at my daughter naked during a diaper change, "Oh, just look at her little body!" It made me uncomfortable, and not because I suspected that my mom would ever do anything untoward-- just because it seemed (weirdly, because she certainly didn't care) like an invasion of my daughter's privacy.
If your mother had a bad relationship withr her own father, and if her mother was also crazy, then she may be exploiting this feeling of power by interacting way too much with your son's "nakedness" (and I deliberately use that word instead of "penis," because it sounds to me like more of a power issue than a sexual issue. Mothers have a bodily intimacy with their children which no one else (except a spouse, really) ever experiences-- carrying them, birthing them, nursing them, etc-- your mother seems like she is trying to claim that sort of intimacy with your son. As an aside to that, I read a set of parenting stories (I think maybe this was by Meg Wolitzer? or an interview with her?), and she talks about how it really was weird when she realized that her sons did not want to be naked around her anymore. It was a sign they were growing up, and as stange asit was to see modesty/not-seeing-my-son's-penis-anymore as a milestone, it kindof became one.

All of that is to say-- I think the people saying, "you were sexually abused" or "she's going to abuse your son" are perhaps overreacting. It's true, nothing is more important than protecting your son, and it does seem like your mother has seriously boundary issues, and you would need to address those whatever the manifestation. Your mother is exerting too much ownership over your son's body-- that should be stopped. But I think your feeling (that she only does this with young children) makes a lot of sense. Once they reach that point of modesty/awareness/etc that Wolitzer recognized in her own sons, whatever she's getting out of it also disappears.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. It sounds very hard-- and it's too bad your H isn't more supportive.
Bless you. It was SO HARD for me to convey the age thing. That my mom is not a "sexual predator". She's got boundary issues. She invades a small child's privacy too much, to the point that her good-heartedness and good intentions are damaging, yes--Even that maybe she gets a little "something" out of that. That she has control issues. But that she is not out to literaly prey on her grandchildren. That after the "helping" stage, the problem is no longer there. She no longer attempts at ANYTHING once a child is independant in those areas. Attempting anything and trying to convince the child to hush it away is something she's never doen and never would do. That as long as my child is independant about those things, it wouldn't be an issue of him having to protect himself...the very fact that his is independant in those areas in itself totally resolves the issue.

To have the idea thrown at me that this is DEFINITELY something my mother WOULD TRY to do makes me kinda disappointed that maybe I've portrayed my mother in that light. I've definitely got some big problems with my mom...but that specific idea of her is totally inaccurate. She definitely does NOT behave like a typical sneaky sexual predator, even through all of her problems.
post #78 of 93
Hey again,

No advice here, just wanted to say I'm here to support you and I think you are an amazing mom. I think many women would be so uncomfortable with these feelings they'd just push them away, but you are working hard to be honest with yourself and figuring this all out and I really admire that. I wish you and your family the best, keep posting here, we all want to support you.
post #79 of 93

Me, too

I'm notorious for being real firm about protecting our children. I read PTG, and it simply confirmed for me what I already knew, which de Becker, the author, announces in the beginnng: that we already KNOW what to do.

You are doing right by your child, keeping your eyes on the ball, and THAT is hard to do when you've got Mr. Goes the Way the Wind Blows in your corner. You and your backbone are everybody on the team, gaby's mom, and thank goodness it's you and not someone more reactionary or wimpy.

What you described remembering about your mother did not sound like a pathological issue in itself, but more likely a misguided comprehension of sexuality, sexual feelings, and sexual developement based on ignorance of childrens' and probably HER OWN body.

I see your approach, gaby's mom, to the situation/s as being vigilant in a real admirable way, not overreacting, and not underresponding. Some parents ARE oddly destructive, cold, and inept with babies and toddlers, and just barely manage to survive parenthood when their children become young PEOPLE to them and they are ABLE to relate and be good parents. Same with grandparents.

I mean, IF you can preserve your family without tying yourself into an emotional pretzel, then it's good for everybody and it's so worth fighting for. Grandparents can be such a wonderful source of identity and nurturing love, for both the grandchild AND the child, who may be seeing their parent show love to THEIR children that they never showed them. That's a huge healing if you can get it, so I don't think we should cast it off so quickly as some here would seem to be suggesting.

Preserving the extended family can't always be done, and if it has to be taken apart, it is grueling and horrible and lonely and bitter and very, very hard to complete with any sense of self-assurance that you're doing right by everyone involved.

Standing by you Gaby's mom. Remain confident and strong.

VF
post #80 of 93
Thread Starter 
Thank you, viewfinder. Your words never cease to be deep and meaningful. It's late, and my brain is scattered for the evening, as it is every evening, so I'll come back tomorrow further ponder over your post.

And thanks for your support, kathteach
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