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Geeeez! *How* many times did I say we WEREN'T circumcising?!

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to share my experience at the hospital with my new little ds. While in labor I'm given forms to sign. One is a concent form for circ'ing the baby. No spot to decline the circ there, just a space to sign to ok for it.

I tell the nurse we are NOT circing. She says no problem, she'll mark it on my chart. Ok, cool. I have the baby, and am taken to recovery.

Nurse 1 comes in and asks if he's getting circ'ed in the morning. No, I said, we're not circ'ing him. Ok she says and leaves.

Nurse 2 comes in to schedule the circumcision, you know to go over risks, what's done, care of, blah blah blah. I tell her we are NOT circ'ing. She leaves.

Nurse 3 comes in and while chit chatting asks about when he's going to be circ'ed. For Pete's SAKE, WE'RE NOT CIRC'ING! Arg! Does no one read the chart?

Next morning... The doctor who preforms the circumcisions walks into the room to take the baby to do the circumcision. Huh, what? With no appointment? With no approval forms?? I wonder what would have happened had I been asleep, if ds slept in the silly plastic 'bassinette'!

Later that evening Nurse *4* asks if he's being snipped the next day. OMG come ON people, that's SIX people asking about circ'ing my son, five of them AFTER it should have been clear from one of our charts that no way was this happening!

Ds never left my site the whole stay. Its sad that if he would have had to leave one of my main reasons for him not being alone would be so they wouldn't sneak in snipping him!

Anyways, I just wanted to share that... Ds is home and whole And staying that way!
post #2 of 41
shessh, what a bunch of numb-skulls!
post #3 of 41
These are the same people who would swear they are neutral and don't press the mother for the procedure. Yeah, right! A mother who wasn't dead set sure of her decision would probably buckle on the 4th or 5th solicitation. This is pressure on the mother at a time she certainly doesn't need it. It is unethical!

It shouldn't be solicited after the first inquiry. After that, it becomes a subtle form of coercion. Actually, I don't think the mother should be asked. I think she should have to specifically request it, unprompted. I also think it should be after she has been counseled thoroughly about all of the risks and implications before she even gets to the hospital.

Imagine that it's tonsils. The doctor tells you that they are just insignificant little flaps of skin and removing them will only take a minute and there will be life long health benefits. There may be some truth to that. After the fifth time you have been asked, you are going to begin thinking that maybe you should go ahead and have them out. After all, if it weren't beneficial, they wouldn't continue asking you.

Here's the real scenario . . . . He does tonsilectomies on your child and two more that day. He's finished in about 20-30 minutes and pockets $900.00. On the way to his office, he stops off at the bank and makes the payment on his Mercedes The babies are fractious for a few days and refuse to nurse but get over it and never realize that part of their immune system may have been compromised. The doctor gets away scot free!

post #4 of 41
Write a letter to the president of the hospital asap and cc it to the head of the nursing divison. After you declined once it became an issue of soliciting an unwanted procedure. They need to know about this.

I had tons of issues with the care I received when I gave birth (and I *work* at the hospital, so I knew how things are supposed to work, and all of the nurses knew I work here, so you'd think they'd be on their best behavior!) and I wrote a 4 page letter to the CEO giving as much detail as I could. The letter was sent to the AVP of every department that was involved (4 or 5 iirc) and I got a personal apology from every single one of them as well as a $50 gift certificate.

Hospitals take complaints about care very very seriously, especially when it shows that the nurses aren't paying attention the chart. ( in my case, the nurse brought me the wrong dosage of a blood thinner I was taking. we only caught it because I insisted on giving my own shots and saw that it was the wrong sized syringe)
post #5 of 41
Ok, now at the risk of making this sound like a certain song...

Do-what-ever-didi-wants- said- do it fast!!!

Make a GIANT complaint to the hospital, AND the state medical board. You also may want to find out- in some states it is ILLEGAL to soilicit unnecissary surgery- you might be able to sue them for harassment- contact ARC.

this needs to be stopped- this is harassment.

Love Sarah

And HEY- Congratulations on the birth of your BABY!!
post #6 of 41
That makes me so ANGRY!

I third whateverdidiwants - write a letter while it's fresh in your mind. If you can, name the nurses and doctors by name. Also, make sure to mention that you would have brought civil tort claims against the hospital and the individual "care" providers for pain and suffering, as well as pressed criminal charges for assault and battery if that frickin' doctor had taken Orion away to be mutilated without your consent.

That ought to get their attention.
post #7 of 41
Lisa, we can prob get a letterwriting campaign going locally. Cross pot to FYT!
post #8 of 41
Wow, this is outrageous.

I'm so thankful my first was a girl. We were young and stupid and I was trying so hard to be a 'good' patient. :

Congratulations on your new baby.
post #9 of 41
Thread Starter 
Letter writing would be a good idea. I never thought of it as harrasment, or that it might beat another mom down to decide to do it, but that's so true! I was just *so* against having him circ'ed it didn't occur to me that it might push someone who's so-so about it (or perhaps didn't like the idea but didn't know much about it... thinking "oh it must be a good thing to have done" without research or somethign) into having it done... Good point.

But I don't have much more detail that what I shared with you all here. I was VERY drugged up for 99% of my stay at the hospital (mag sulfate) and it made things very very fuzzy. I don't have a single name, nor any descriptions, or even acurate times these events occured. I'm just not sure that the letter would be taken seriously in light of that? Any thoughts on that?

If I had realized how serious this was when it was happening I would have gotten names and remembered times... and yes I realize now just how serious it is, but again I was drugged up into a stupor, made it hard to think straight...
post #10 of 41
I think that makes what they did even *more* negligent! Seriously, badgering a drugged up women to cut up her newborn son's penis? What if you didn't have the wherewithall to atnd up for him b/c of the drugs??
post #11 of 41
"Wrongful circumcision of infants is, unfortunately, not as rare an occurrence as many parents would believe." -- David J. Llewellyn, Attorney at Law. (scary stuff.)

BTW, our hospital was great......none of the nurses asked us about circ, nor handed us a consent form.

But our (ex) ped came in to check out the baby, and asked, "When can we schedule the....... " and then he left his sentence hanging, and just gestured to my son's penis.

It was so absurd.........he couldn't even SAY the word "circumcision" but he thought I was going to let him PERFORM one on my baby boy????!!!

Also, this is from noharmm.org (in the "litigation" section):

"Parents who were solicited for circumcision without requesting it----In most states, it is illegal for a medical facility or professional to solicit for unnecessary surgery. Offering or giving a new parent a Circumcision Consent Form is solicitation. If you are presented with such a form that you did not ask for, you may be able to bring legal action against the hospital. Winning such a case could set a legal precedent to stop this solicitation and thereby protect children in the future."
post #12 of 41
I'll write a letter! What hospital was it, Lisa? PM me if you would like.
post #13 of 41
RE: "I'm just not sure that the letter would be taken seriously in light of that? Any thoughts on that?"

The medical industry is very aware of the furror on this issue. Your letter just may be the straw that "breaks the camel's back."

post #14 of 41
Even if you can't provide names and exact times you could still say evening of such-and-such date, morning of whenever. They can pull your chart and find out who your nurses were because the nurses will have signed any notations they put in your chart (vital signs, etc).

They will take you seriously. I promise.
post #15 of 41
I agree to writing a letter,and sending it to a few places including orgs that are against circumcision so they can *watch* this hospital*.Just think of how many boys are leaving the hospital mutilated because the parents just weren't aware enough to protect them.
post #16 of 41
That's nuts!

You MUST write a letter!! What they did was wrong!
post #17 of 41
Wow, that is mega scary!! Imagine if you had been sleeping or what not...

Also, I agree with FranklySpeaking, that is coercion!!

I too would write a letter/file a complaint.

It sickens me how so many ppl just ASSUME that every baby boy will be circumcised. One more reason why I will never give birth in a hospital by choice.

BTW, CONGRATS on your baby boy!! I dont think I have offered a formal welcome and congratulations to him and you!!

Welcome to the world Orion Matthew!

post #18 of 41
Congratulations and welcome!

Wow, and I thought three in my case was bad. It had been a recurrent nightmare for me so when the third came in with "circumcision care instructions" I actually yelled at her. Didn't think to write a note, though. I totally think you should write! Seriously, even if it isn't exact it is SOMETHING, and it may actually just be that nobody has really thought about this before (or at least, nobody has thought to change their approach since however-many-years-ago when they first put their procedures in place).
post #19 of 41
I had somebody come down with a cart of some sort and a clipboard the day after Nathan was born telling me he was there "to take Nathan down to be circumcised". He argued when I said "But I told people already I don't WANT him circumcised!" saying "But his name's up on the board...." He did leave after I refused again though. Like you- what if I had been asleep?? Just read that you were on mag. YIKES!! I've been on that twice and for anyone who doesn't know what that's about- you may as well be dead. You can't see worth anything, you can BEARLY move.... you sleep the whole time because of this. It relaxes ALL your muscles to the point of being a vegetable, basically. (In an attempt to stop labor - as in my cases- or to lower your blood prsesure.) This is obviously NOT a state someone could be making decisions in and for SURE not one that someone could be vigilant about keeping her newborn from being taken. GRR......

When my daughter was born it wasn't so much of an issue of course. Nobody asked. But when my youngest, Noah, was born, I had a postcard in his bassinet of the "stop circ" cartoon, a sticker in his medical chart in the spot where they put if the circ was completed or not in my room that was the "no" sign in red around "circ". I also put it in my birthplan in RED there was to absolutely be no circumcision and if they asked me about it I would consider it harrassment! (And I had 3 copies of the birthplan.) AND I had one of those "no circ" tshirts for him- which he DID wear eventually before we left the hospital. (We had to stay a little longer because I was group B strep +). There is part on the video where one nurse is telling another "They were very specific about not wanting him circ'd" while they're doing some "normal" stuff with him. This was when I was still delivering the placenta or something. I had 4 or 5 other family members there with me who KNEW what I wanted so I wasn't worried. And up until I was 7 cm or so I was carrying on conversations like we were at Starbucks so....

But you see all I had to go through just to get them NOT to bug me. Plus 4 years helps between births. Maybe there really ARE more people not circ'ing now. The first time I thought just saying "no" to my nurse was enough.
post #20 of 41
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