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S/O: Disowning or Ignoring those who circ

post #1 of 110
Thread Starter 
This is a spinoff from "Was I Being Petty".

Have you ever ended or severely halted any relationship with someone after they put their son through circumcision? I'm talking specifically about those who still have their son circumicised even after you've provided sufficient information against the surgery. (I don't want this discussion to include how you feel about people you've met after they've had their son cut).

My sister and her husband had their barely 6 1/2 pound newborn circumcised even after I gave her an incredible amount of information. I explained the structure of the foreskin, what it does, how circumcision is performed, how torturous it is for the baby. She saw photos and drawings of circumcisions being performed. She knew there's a liklihood of serious complications like the loss of the baby's penis and death. She and her husband are strong Christians so I explained how circ is not needed for Chrisitians. Earlier in her pregnancy I thought I had gotten through to her. I even remember her seeing a photo of a baby mid-circ and saying she could never do that to her baby.

My sister is about an inch shorter than me. My son was born naturally in the hospital weighing 8 pounds 10 oz. My daughter was born at home in a birth tub weighing 8 pounds 8 oz. No one told me that I couldn't have my babies. My sister's OB, on the other hand, took one look at her and told her she'd most likely need a cesarean section. She wanted a natural birth because she was afraid of the epidural going into her spine. I gave her a ton of information, bought her several books, and helped her as much as I could given our distance apart. (She's in Virginia, I'm in Illinois.) I encouraged her over and over to at least give labor a try, that most likely she'd be able to have the baby, but the doctor could still give her a c-section if it was truly necessary. In the end, she gave into the doctor and had a scheduled c-section two weeks before her EDD. She never even went into labor. And, like I mentioned earlier, that baby was barely 6.5 pounds.

I called her right after she had the baby to congratulate them on their new baby and to give her intact care. I started explaining intact care and she cut me off midsentence, "We're having him circumcised." I had to bite my tongue to keep from responding with the words that popped into my head. I asked her why on earth she'd do that to her baby. Her answer was that something had to pay for what she'd just been through. In other words, she decided to punish that tiny, perfect, newborn with mutilation because she felt bad about herself giving in to the doctor's recommendation of a cesarean. : I told her that nothing had to be done right away, that the best thing would be to take her son home and get used to him. I told him a foreskin isn't that big a deal after you've seen it a few times. I thought I'd gotten through to her, but sadly I hadn't.

I found out she'd had him circumcised when he was 3 days old and I saw his red, raw penis during a diaper change. From the middle of his shaft down he had tissue ripped away. When she took his diaper off he urinated on his wound and screamed bloody murder. She just stood there with a stupid grin on her face trying to figure out what made him start crying. I was dumbfounded. I said, "He's just had surgery to rip a big chunk off his penis. He's in pain! Give him some tylenol or something." She refused, telling me that it didn't hurt that much and that he'd be okay. She then proceeded to rub some sort of cream all over his red, raw penis which I have to admit really sickened me. After having an intact son I now see the exposed glans as being even more private than the flaccid intact penis. I couldn't imagine myself ever rubbing a cream all over my own son's glans. That's one sensation I would not want him associating with me.

It's been nearly 2 months and I haven't talked to her except once since then. I went with our Dad to visit her, her husband, and the baby. In my mind what she did was sexual abuse, pure and simple. She knew why it was wrong, she knew there are men who hate being circumcised, she knew everything she needed, and yet she still chose to put her son through that torture. She didn't have the excuse of ignorance. In my mind, there's no difference between a stranger sexually assaulting a child, and her having part of her son's penis ripped off. In short, she's not the same person I once knew, and I don't think I'll ever feel close to her again.

On the bright side, I got some cute toys picked out to send the baby for his 6 month birthday. As others have said, it's not his fault his parents made such a horrible decision.
post #2 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
She didn't have the excuse of ignorance. In my mind, there's no difference between a stranger sexually assaulting a child, and her having part of her son's penis ripped off.
I feel the exact same way! I would not be able to ever respect her again.
post #3 of 110
omg i just could not be around her.

she made her little boy pay for her ignorance in having a c/s??? just fraking great. omg!!! i think i am going to be sick.
post #4 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
Her answer was that something had to pay for what she'd just been through.
OMGosh. I think I just vomited in my mouth. This is the most disgusting thing I've ever read.

No, I would lose all respect for her.

And if she ever wondered why I had become so distant, I wouldn't hesitate to let her know.
post #5 of 110
I could not be around someone like that..... nope, no way. If that makes me the big bi***, then so be it.
post #6 of 110
I have to agree with everyone else!! I don’t think I could look at my sister the same way again if she ever did that to my nephew. And she did it to make him “pay” for what was done to her?!?!!?!?!!! OMG I think that is the sickest thing I have ever heard!!

Im sorry she did that to your poor nephew and obviously don’t care about his pain. So sending you lots of (((HUGS)))

My SO’s SIL is having a little boy in Sept. and even after all the info I gave her she is STILL going to cut their son!! Its so sickening, It was all I could think about for WEEKS and he’s not even here yet!! UGH. Luckily for me were not that close anyway and they just sold their house and there moving like an hour away from us, so I won’t have to see or hear about his poor mutilated penis.

But to answer your question, YES I have had friendships severely damaged because they cut their son AFTER I gave them all the info why its so wrong!! I still talk to them but RARELY and if I do im so disconnected and just can’t get over what they have done.

You do what you need to do, I know its different when its family but take your time, you don’t HAVE to talk to her if you don’t want to.

Good luck!!
post #7 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
Her answer was that something had to pay for what she'd just been through. In other words, she decided to punish that tiny, perfect, newborn with mutilation because she felt bad about herself giving in to the doctor's recommendation of a cesarean. :
That would have given me a scare about her ability to care for him, actually, at least in that immediate post partum time. That just doesn't sound right. Unless she was angry and was taking it out on you by saying something this inflammatory.

I'm one of those people who doesn't really know the circ status of my friend's sons in most cases, and I am not one to disown people for that, but this situation I would really have a hard time ever dealing with her after this. When my niece was having her first baby, I sent her information from No Circ, including a story about babies who died from circumcision. Then when I talked to my sister about it, she cut me off and said there was no way in hell she would let him stay uncircumcised. My niece was young, her mother had a lot of influence and I thought I would appeal to her since she can be open-minded, but she was so close-minded about it, it pissed me off. But then my niece ended up having a girl (then 2 more girls, then a tubal ligation at the age of 21), so I didn't have to deal with the fallout of the circ decision, but I'm still upset by the attitude.
post #8 of 110
Hurting her son because she was upset about what was done to her is horrible and abusive. I can understand why people have such a difficult time getting their heads around why circing is harmful. There are so many people who have not ever seen an intact penis...or even understand what it means to leave a penis intact. There needs to be a shift in our culture and that does not often come about quickly or easily. Changing people's misconceptions about circ will take time. Changing the advice mainstream docs give to new parents will take time. Changing the social pressures around circ will take time. I can even understand being confused by the different sides of the debate, and the different statistics and studies. But to hurt your child out of spite, and to take pleasure in his pain and discomfort is sadistic. I don't think I'd be able to have the same relationship with her.
post #9 of 110
cutting his boys was the final straw with my brother. We no longer speak!
post #10 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherri0196 View Post
! I still talk to them but RARELY and if I do im so disconnected and just can’t get over what they have done.

Good luck!!

see thats how it is w/ me also. I dont walk up to ppl and say "OMG you mutiliated your son and I can never talk to you again" (which is how i feel)....but I do feel sooo disconnected when i talk to them and really find nothing to say (we can talk about gardening or kids or whatever but in my mind, all i can think of is what they did)....so yeh, the friendship just fades away.
post #11 of 110
Yes, the same with my sister. I won't even blame the BIL because I know her (strong-willed) and she could have had her way. We were always close to each other and she was the first person I confided to about what they did to me as a kid....the botched circ, botched re-circ, adhesions and the resulting damage, meatal stenosis, etc. She cried....I cried. When she later stated that she would circ a son (they were trying at the time) I was dumbfounded and asked her just what she would do if her son had complications? She glibly said she would sue the doctor and get her son some counselling (which I also felt implied that the problem was all mental...totally ignoring the physical realities that resulted). When I told her that all the money in the world couldn't replace what was taken, she didn't know how to respond.

Then, about two years later my nephew was born. I sent a card and some $$, but I couldn't bring myself to call her. About two weeks later I got a nasty call from her where she basically ripped into me and said, "If you don't like it that I had my son circumcised then you don't need to send gifts or call or have any contact with us..."

So, I just said, "Ok," and hung up on her and didn't speak to her for just over two years. It wasn't until my niece was born with a severe heart condition that I got a tearful phone call from her with a bunch of "I'm sorries." I'm still not sure to this day exactly what she was sorry for, but that wasn't the time and place to get into it. I can only hope that after everything they've been through with my beautiful niece needing surgeries in a life and death situation, that she has seen the folly of taking risks with unnecessary, cosmetic surgery. I'm sure someday we'll have that talk again, especially if they have another ds (they've discussed trying for one more). I will not accept the "we did one, so we have to do the other" excuse or it WILL be the last time we ever speak. However, in the meantime I am remaining cordial with her just so I can have a relationship with my niece and nephew who I love to death. I am trying, but I will never feel quite the same about my sister who was once one of my closest friends.
post #12 of 110
I have to agree with the others. That was sick. I have a hard time believing that a mother would really say that... that because she was cut in order to give birth, the baby has to be cut so that they're... what...? Even? Like I said, sick.
post #13 of 110
I don't blame you one bit for distancing yourself from your sister. She doesn't sound like someone I would want to be close to either.
Her reason for harming her son is just disgusting but not the first time I've heard a mother feel that way about her son's circumcision.

I think the natural consequence of someone knowingly hurting their child is for people to no longer want to be close with them.
post #14 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
After having an intact son I now see the exposed glans as being even more private than the flaccid intact penis. I couldn't imagine myself ever rubbing a cream all over my own son's glans. That's one sensation I would not want him associating with me.
You are totally entitled to your circing opinion, obviously - I'm not questioning that.

However, penises get infected - circ'd ones, intact ones - they can ALL get infected and it can affect any part of the penis. It's happened to us and I've had to intensely medicate my infant son's red, raw little penis - it was actually bleeding around the base and entire underside due to a severe YI. You make it sound like putting meds on a penis is sexual in any way and I take issue with that. It's no more sexual than careful washing is - it's medication, plain and simple, even if you do not agree with the reason behind the need for the meds, which I completely respect.

I also agree that your sister's reasoning is quite disturbing, but I'm hoping the comment was said in a moment of intense stress or emotional confusion and she didn't really mean it the way you perceived it.
post #15 of 110
I don't think I could be around a friend or relative that did it after getting all the information either. Child abuse, even if done with the best intentions, is child abuse.
post #16 of 110
My sister did it to her first son, despite me telling her that there was no reason to. It went terribly bad (infection) and he had to have a corrective surgery. Then with her third child, she opted to do it again. Any time it comes up, I pretty much read her the riot act. We've never really gotten along very well, anyway, and she just doesn't make good choices in general. (She's currently living in her in-laws back yard, in a yard barn. In Phoenix.)
post #17 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
You are totally entitled to your circing opinion, obviously - I'm not questioning that.

However, penises get infected - circ'd ones, intact ones - they can ALL get infected and it can affect any part of the penis. It's happened to us and I've had to intensely medicate my infant son's red, raw little penis - it was actually bleeding around the base and entire underside due to a severe YI. You make it sound like putting meds on a penis is sexual in any way and I take issue with that. It's no more sexual than careful washing is - it's medication, plain and simple, even if you do not agree with the reason behind the need for the meds, which I completely respect.
I think she specifically meant the glans, not "the penis", which under natural circumstances would not be exposed at a month old.
post #18 of 110
OMG! What would she have done to a little girl to make her "pay"???
post #19 of 110
Thread Starter 
~Em~, you come across as very pro-circ (at least by my standards). I would like for you to keep in mind that she would not have needed to rub any sort of cream all over her newborn's glans if she had not had his body mutilated. That wasn't a case of him getting an infection that she was treating. A situation like that is unplanned and unfortunate. My intact son has never had a single problem with his penis. Parents who have their sons circumcised must know that they will be required to handle their son's penis over and over again during the healing process.

In my mind, there is a huge difference between treating a rare infection that a baby had the unfortunate luck to acquire and taking care of a circumcision wound that the parents inflicted on him.
post #20 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamalluv View Post
I think she specifically meant the glans, not "the penis", which under natural circumstances would not be exposed at a month old.
I agree, but any part could get infected. My older son actually had a nasty pimple on his glans - the very tip. It turned out to be MRSA and affected other parts of him too. My point was that any part could have medical issues (circ-related or completely unrelated), and treating it with medication isn't sexual.
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