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S/O: Disowning or Ignoring those who circ - Page 3

post #41 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
As stated, my older son had an MRSA sore on the very tip of his penis (actually around the urethral opening) - applying the ointment wasn't sexual or optional - it just had to be done.
Circ'd infant have much higher chance of getting MRSA in the hospital, by the way. Marilyn Milos, RN (founder of nocirc) told me that circ'd boys are actually at 12 times greater risk of contracting MRSA vs. intact ones.
post #42 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
Circ'd infant have much higher chance of getting MRSA in the hospital, by the way. Marilyn Milos, RN (founder of nocirc) told me that circ'd boys are actually at 12 times greater risk of contracting MRSA vs. intact ones.
That may very well be true, just as I assume c-s mommies are more likely to contract it than vaginal births (I have no data - that's a guess). I believe they both got the infection from me, however. I got it in the hospital. My older son was 3 when he contracted it from me - he also had boils on his backside and legs that had to be lanced and drained. It was a very unfortunate and unpleasant experience for all of us.
post #43 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
I'm just saying health problems can pop up anywhere on any infant and if they do they need to be treated - I don't consider that sexual in nature. If poop gets on a baby girls clitoris, it needs to be carefully wiped off - it's just taking care of the baby. Yes you have to touch her sexual parts, but it's for a nonsexual purpose. I don't consider it gross, either - it would be nice if infants came as self-cleaning, but they just don't.

As stated, my older son had an MRSA sore on the very tip of his penis (actually around the urethral opening) - applying the ointment wasn't sexual or optional - it just had to be done. The infection may have been a little gross, I grant you, but medicating it certainly wasn't and I definitely didn't consider it sexual. Same with the persistant YI on the younger boy - it was more base of the penis and underside, but it had to be treated and that was that. Neither infection was foreskin-related, but still penis-related and had the problem been with their foreskins or any other part of them, I wouldn't consider that sexual in nature either.

I don't consider my opinion defensive, either - I just find it very odd that anyone would consider putting meds on a baby (circ'd or not) or otherwise touching a baby's genitals to care for the infant infant sexual in nature.
Interesting.

I have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. Is your ds circ'd? Loose circ'd?
The foreskin on an infant is self cleaning. Nature designed it that way. This is the reason we don't retract. I can see an Adult with a retractable foreskin applying meds on the glans just as a women would insert meds such as monistat into her vagiana, but not children.

2. Are you from the US?

As with Sara, Are you guys retracting your infants?

I just don't get how MRSA can get on the urethra unless you're forcefully retracting the babe's foreskin. Otherwise, when respected, it does a fair job of protecting the meatal opening.

Enlighten me.
post #44 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
I just find it very odd that anyone would consider putting meds on a baby (circ'd or not) or otherwise touching a baby's genitals to care for the infant infant sexual in nature.
Because she would not have needed to rub her son's glans if she had not circumcised him to begin with. Like I said, there is a difference between a boy acquiring an infection and needing treatment, and the parents themselves choosing to cause the problem that requires them to handle their son's privates. Huge difference IMO.

Yes, I have gently used a washrag to wipe breastfed poop from between my daughter's inner labia. But, once again, there is a gigantic difference between someone wiping their daughter's clitoris one time with a washrag to remove some poop, and them hurting her genitals on purpose and then rubbing cream all over her clitoris.
post #45 of 110
Circumcision Increases MRSA Risk
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...mrsa_risk.html

Just because I thought it was interesting.

However, increased risk doesn't = only risk. Personally if I was dealing with something this serious, I'd put the meds where they needed to go.

But as the OP said, rubbing stuff all over just for the h*** of it is a different story, and isn't that just what it's for if one chooses to circ? I'm a little confused as to why this was even being debated here.
post #46 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
That may very well be true, just as I assume c-s mommies are more likely to contract it than vaginal births (I have no data - that's a guess). I believe they both got the infection from me, however. I got it in the hospital. My older son was 3 when he contracted it from me - he also had boils on his backside and legs that had to be lanced and drained. It was a very unfortunate and unpleasant experience for all of us.
Aw, that sucks . Poor little guy.
post #47 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
That may very well be true, just as I assume c-s mommies are more likely to contract it than vaginal births (I have no data - that's a guess). I believe they both got the infection from me, however. I got it in the hospital. My older son was 3 when he contracted it from me - he also had boils on his backside and legs that had to be lanced and drained. It was a very unfortunate and unpleasant experience for all of us.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Hope everything is all better now, or he gets better soon.
post #48 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
Interesting.

I have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. Is your ds circ'd? Loose circ'd?
The foreskin on an infant is self cleaning. Nature designed it that way. This is the reason we don't retract. I can see an Adult with a retractable foreskin applying meds on the glans just as a women would insert meds such as monistat into her vagiana, but not children.

2. Are you from the US?

As with Sara, Are you guys retracting your infants?

I just don't get how MRSA can get on the urethra unless you're forcefully retracting the babe's foreskin. Otherwise, when respected, it does a fair job of protecting the meatal openin.g.

Enlighten me.
I am in the US.

I posted a bit more on the MRSA before, but it can get anywhere - it can be internal or external, localized or systemic. Getting it again scares the #$%@ out of me, to be honest - I was in the hospital last week for a kidney stone and a c-s later this week and I can't say it doesn't worry me significantly.

My kids are circ'd and loose circed. I do regret it, but I cannot change it. I do not wish to debate the quality of my decision at the time. My change in opinion is why I am more tolerant of others - because I know opinions can change. I have never been pro-circ, but just didn't have enough of an opinion to object before. I have a different opinion now. You can flame, if you wish, but it will have no effect on my current thoughts.

The infections I described existed independent of whether the child in question was circ'd which is why I used them in my examples.
post #49 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
SarahGuinn, I'm sorry to say but you were given a bad advice. Foreskin should NOT be retracted, especially when there is infection going on.
I was not given bad advice or naive or ignorant. His foreskin was already self retracted enough to expose his urethra, he's three and a half, and the cream did need to be applied beneath the mountain of foreskin this kid has. I had to be the one to pull it back (minimally and gently,) even if he had previously gotten it to that point himself.
post #50 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
But, once again, there is a gigantic difference between someone wiping their daughter's clitoris one time with a washrag to remove some poop, and them hurting her genitals on purpose and then rubbing cream all over her clitoris.
THIS, I understand and agree with, though I don't see it as sexual. I can see why you'd be angry about it.
post #51 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
I am in the US.

I posted a bit more on the MRSA before, but it can get anywhere - it can be internal or external, localized or systemic. Getting it again scares the #$%@ out of me, to be honest - I was in the hospital last week for a kidney stone and a c-s later this week and I can't say it doesn't worry me significantly.

My kids are circ'd and loose circed. I do regret it, but I cannot change it. I do not wish to debate the quality of my decision at the time. My change in opinion is why I am more tolerant of others - because I know opinions can change. I have never been pro-circ, but just didn't have enough of an opinion to object before. I have a different opinion now. You can flame, if you wish, but it will have no effect on my current thoughts.

The infections I described existed independent of whether the child in question was circ'd which is why I used them in my examples.
No one is going to flame you . But now your point of view makes a lot more sense. There are quite a few members on here who have one or more sons circumcised. Have you read the "Circumcised and regret it" sticky at the top?

I think a lot of the confusion is you were talking about MRSA getting on an infant's glans (regardless if they are intact or circ'd) and some people pointing out that it's pretty much impossible for an intact infant to have a problem with his glans because it's not only covered by the foreskin, the foreskin is actually adhered to the glans like a fingernail to a finger. Getting MRSA under the foreskin would be like getting MRSA deep under a fingernail. I'm not saying either are impossible, but both fingernails and foreskins offer a good deal of protection against infection.

Good luck with your cesarean section later this week. I wish you a speedy recovery .
post #52 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
Getting MRSA under the foreskin would be like getting MRSA deep under a fingernail. I'm not saying either are impossible, but both fingernails and foreskins offer a good deal of protection against infection.
Thank you.

I agree.

I was in the hospital last time for almost 3w (most of that without my newborn, which was very traumatic) due to an unknown generalized infection - it was not localized to the c/s wound or uterine area. I wonder now if was MRSA all along, even though it took months before it showed up on either of the kids. I'll never know, though.

I think I have now hijacked this thread.
post #53 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
Thank you.

I agree.

I was in the hospital last time for almost 3w (most of that without my newborn, which was very traumatic) due to an unknown generalized infection - it was not localized to the c/s wound or uterine area. I wonder now if was MRSA all along, even though it took months before it showed up on either of the kids. I'll never know, though.

I think I have now hijacked this thread.
Aww, don't worry, I'm sure someone will hijack it right back. That's the fun of threads .
post #54 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
I am in the US.

I posted a bit more on the MRSA before, but it can get anywhere - it can be internal or external, localized or systemic. Getting it again scares the #$%@ out of me, to be honest - I was in the hospital last week for a kidney stone and a c-s later this week and I can't say it doesn't worry me significantly.

My kids are circ'd and loose circed. I do regret it, but I cannot change it. I do not wish to debate the quality of my decision at the time. My change in opinion is why I am more tolerant of others - because I know opinions can change. I have never been pro-circ, but just didn't have enough of an opinion to object before. I have a different opinion now. You can flame, if you wish, but it will have no effect on my current thoughts.

The infections I described existed independent of whether the child in question was circ'd which is why I used them in my examples.
I will not flame you.

Thank you for sharing your story. I know that must've been hard. I did so in another thread about my ds3 contractng oral herpes on his testicles. Thats so embarassing. But I do think it would've been way worse if the glans were exposed.

So, just to be sure...

You'll leve future ds's intact right???

You really changed my thinking as well. I can see how you think its not sexual.

Its really about persepective. I guess.

I rarely see the glans on intact child. I think of them as a very private matter. My dh will hide his glans with his restored skin and when I do see them, (forgive me) it sends a visual sexual response in me. I hope you understand when I say rubbing glans seem sexual to me. But I do understand what you mean. If it has to be done, then it has to be done. It seems strange to do it on an intact baby tho. Well, 4% are retracable. Still, there really is no need to retract an intact infant.

Sorry rambling. I'll stop here.
post #55 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
I will not flame you.

Thank you for sharing your story. I know that must've been hard. I did so in another thread about my ds3 contractng oral herpes on his testicles. Thats so embarassing. But I do think it would've been way worse if the glans were exposed.

So, just to be sure...

You'll leve future ds's intact right???
I have a pretty thick hide anyway, lol.

This Baby 3 is a girl and I *think* the last, so it's a nonissue, but with hypothetical Baby Boy 4 (4?!? oh, that sounds scary, lol!), yes.

DS2 wasn't as affected by the MRSA, but he did get a nasty infection on his scrotum - I still worry about longterm effects, even though the pedi assures that we got it while it was still just on the skin. Amazing (and scary) how two perfectly healthy kids can be so easily affected by something that was previously relegated primarily to the infirm or otherwise immune-challenged.
post #56 of 110
I would have a hard time maintaining the same relationship if someone circ'd after I felt they were thoroughly educated. With my first SIL, I was still new to being anti-circ. My first intact son was just one when SIL had her DS. All I did was remind her that we didn't circ and that after my DH (her brother) and I read a lot about it, we found that there was no reason to do it. I knew she trusted her doctor a lot and I encouraged her to ask him questions about it so they felt they had all the information. (I know her doctor and know that he is anti-circ and doesn't do them...only one doc in their 4 MD practice does actually). I guess I was hoping that he would "take it from there" and be the voice of reason to her. I knew she was planning on FF even though she knew I breastfed. (She thought BF was "icky") She also went back to work by choice, not because they needed to financially, when her son was just 5 weeks old, because she couldn't tolerate being "stuck in the house" with a newborn 24/7. She tried to play the victim when her son had to try formula after formula because he just couldn't tolerate it well and would say stuff about she hated how he cried every time he peed for the first week because his circumcision hurt. I literally had to bite my tongue. She had a girl the second time who once again had the same issues with formula...So our parenting styles are polar opposites. DH and I have distanced ourselves from her, we see them for the kids' birthday parties and Christmas but that's really it. DH's other sister is a lot more like me. She wants to BF because she saw all the issues her sister's two kids had. Plus her DH really wants her to BF because it's just so much healthier. She's taking a birthing class with a doula and she wants to have minimal birth intervention, going to cloth diaper etc. Her and her DH are more into natural family living type stuff...She's due with a girl in a few weeks. I've given her a ton of info about circ (just in case she ends up with a surprise boy and for future kids!) She hasn't ever come and out and told me that she won't circ, so I still feel like I have some work to do with her on that issue. If she did, it would absolutely devastate me, because I feel like she has been educated. I couldn't pretend to be okay with it...and I'm sure we'd distance ourselves from DH's family even more. Sometimes I think that's what you have to do to protect your own heart.

And as far as that comment about the baby having to pay for the mom having to go through a C-Section...I feel the opposite...when moms who insist of having a circ done end up with a c-section, i just don't feel so bad that they didn't have the natual birth they wanted...If their going to inflict a permanent unnatural wound and scar on their baby, then maybe they should have one too. (I'm referring specifically to the people who have the birth plan that reads no intervention, no artificial anything, no episiotomy...but want a circ...the "don't cut me, cut my baby" birth plans)
post #57 of 110
Geez...I started writing my reply which made sense at the time, stopped to NAK and look what I missed...LOL! Maybe I hijacked it back!
post #58 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
I feel the exact same way! I would not be able to ever respect her again.
I agree. I don't have any experiences yet with people I know circing mostly b/c everyone I know has girls. But if one of my friends did that knowingly, I couldn't talk to them again.
post #59 of 110
Fortunately I have never had to. I would though if it came down to that.
post #60 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
I also agree that your sister's reasoning is quite disturbing, but I'm hoping the comment was said in a moment of intense stress or emotional confusion and she didn't really mean it the way you perceived it.
I was thinking the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
If by "pro-circ" you mean more tolerant of everyone, then yes, you are probably right. I try to be tolerant of everyone (regardless of the issue - it could be BF/FF or whatever) in the hopes that gentle persuasion will change their opinions because in my experience being shunned or lectured or intimidated has the direct opposite effect. By no means do I mean to dismiss others' feelings her as I understand where you are coming from. I just feel that the "cure" is more effectively achieved by a different set of tools than some here.
I feel this way too. Just because we won't disown a sister or friend for circing doesn't mean we are pro-circ. I am staunchly anti-circ actually.

I would be heartbroken if my sibling or dear friend ended our relationship because I didn't vax and she thought that was neglectful. You could apply the same to women who choose to extended breastfeed, homeschool, family bed. People can make arguments that a number of things that are done by mainstream or alternative moms - that it is neglectful, abusive, etc. Especially because NFL hasn't become common, I think it is too harsh to end important relationships when someone makes a personal decision based on their doctor's advice, their family's advice, what they've read and researched. I completely agree that circing is wrong, and I wish it wasn't done. I am on board with educating our friends and family and anyone else we can reach. I can't go along with ending relationships over a parenting decision, no matter how it may break my heart. That also removes you from your new nephew's life; is that worth it? You aren't changing the fact that he was circed by refusing to speak to his parents anymore.
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