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Appropriate touches and men question - Page 3

post #41 of 90
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much, Viewfinder. On such a diverse board with so many people wanting acceptance from the mainstream because of their different ways of parenting--whether it be queer parenting, unschooling, not vaxing, or anything in between--the same group of people are so quick to jump on me for my different ways of parenting. Talk about double standards. Somehow, I think that if I had 2 boyfriends and we all slept naked with my daughter, that would be more accepted than the 2 rules I do have in place...not allowing my dd to be alone with a man (for now, at least until she can talk) and that men/boys don't see her naked. I'm not harming her. She's not being damaged. She's being protected by a very protective mama....so why are so many of you on me? Back off. You (as a whole) expect (or want) people to accept your beliefs--show the same respect for other mama's who may have a different view from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"
He has frontal lobe damage. That part of the brain has to do with impulse control. He's impulsive with many things. I'm not saying he has a brain injury therefore he is a predator. I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying (or have been trying to say is that he has a brain injury so I don't know if what he's doing (or not doing) is, and I quote myself:
Quote:
Is he just stupid? Seeking attention? No common sense? No sense of what is appropriate? Or...a flat out pervert? We don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
And FWIW, a lot of times when a child innocently creates an awkward situation, adults may ignore it because they don't want to seem interested - in fact there have been threads here recently trashing people for not ignoring a child's nudity, etc. - or because they don't want to shame the child. I would feel pretty inappropriate if I trotted out a speech about "private parts" every time my toddler bumped into my crotch.
First I'd just like to quote myself again:
Quote:
I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and won't do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.
It's not a matter of bumping into his crotch. It's something that has happened on more than one occasion and he does nothing about it...until we say something and I DO say something. This is why I asked for all of your opinions to see if I was being too senstive or not (have I mentioned that like 4 times now? I think so).

After my last post, I called my gramma. I made her cry because of all these posts making me 2nd my judgement. She is not going to let anything happen to my dd. She would kill her husband before she let anything happen (she might kill him anyway, he stresses her so badly). I told her again, "I don't want to keep causing you stress. I think I'll just find another place for dd to go. I don't want to put a strain on your marriage or stress you out..." She cries and yells at me and says, "It's not you, it's HIM and his ignorance! He needs to just stay the hell away from dd. Period." And that is what is happening. Period. He's staying away. G will be talking to his mother about this matter and she's making an appt to talk to her male GP to get his take on things as well. In addition, she will go WITH her H to his next neuologist appt and explain all of this...get to the bottom of why he does it--if it's just impulsive, stupid, or what.

As stated a couple times, neither G or I have seen men around little ones. We don't know what the norm is (which is exactly why I asked for all of your opinions...as stated again and again). SOME of you simply gave me your answers, thank you, and I took that info and passed it on to G. G never had biological kids. My mom and I came into G's life with I was 15 months. There weren't men around. I'm the closest thing she has to a "child"...she's watched me grow up. She's been more of a mom to me than my mother. And now she has the absolute joy of watching my dd grow up. I will not take that away from her. She will kick her husband out of the house before dd is taken from her (she even said so--if he bothers dd again, she will make him go to his mom's/sisters or whereever while dd is there).

My kid is not in any harm. She will stay at my G's house. She is safe there. Her H will stay the heck away from my dd. Period. We know there is some sort of problem, we are addressing it.

Now, if anyone would like to add their input from my original question of what's appropriate or not....please feel free. Othewise back the heck off of me...unless you like it when people jump you over your parenting style/decisions. Again with the double standards--so many of you want acceptance because of your differences....give another mama the same respect, huh?
post #42 of 90

Maybaby2007

I am positive that you will make the best decision for your dd, I'm sorry if you felt pounced on, I hope my post didn't come off that way at all!
post #43 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.

And FWIW, a lot of times when a child innocently creates an awkward situation, adults may ignore it because they don't want to seem interested - in fact there have been threads here recently trashing people for not ignoring a child's nudity, etc. - or because they don't want to shame the child. I would feel pretty inappropriate if I trotted out a speech about "private parts" every time my toddler bumped into my crotch.
I agree about the pedophilic aspects. But she said that he has impulse control issues (I'm assuming that's official), and around young children, there are a lot of areas that impulse control is necessary:

- to not yell at the child
- to not hit the child if something happens (with toddlers, things happen!)
- not to have other unsafe situations arising: accidentally setting fires, leaving out dangerous tools, a million and one ways that we rein in our impulses to keep our environment and kids safe.

OP, I understand that you are very invested in this situation. But let me put it to you this way.

Suppose that you were looking at day care centres and one told you:

50% of the adults on the premises cannot be trusted to look after small children because they have issues. The other 50% who are the caregivers will never get breaks, be able to be on the phone, answer the door, empty the trash, or to go to the bathroom without having to make sure that your mobile, curious, exploring child is contained in some way.

And oh, in this environment with the adults with issues, we have all the usual things people have at home: stoves, tools, matches, knives, scissors, and so forth.

Would you leave your child there?
post #44 of 90
My partner will let a child be in contact with his genitals through clothing if:
1. It's not painful or uncomfortable for him.
2. He is not at all aroused for any reason.
He probably would let contact continue, for a short time, in the situations you mention. HOWEVER, if you ever spoke to him and said that for your peace of mind you wanted him not to allow this and to redirect your child immediately, he would do that. Probably he wouldn't even be offended that you might be thinking he was a predator (after all, these are situations in which your kid is touching him, not vice versa) and just think you are more sensitive than he is to being weirded out by the idea of a baby fondling somebody's privates. He would respect your sensitivity. I think he is a pretty normal man.

Sounds to me like this issue is just one of many red flags about GH and like G is afraid of this man herself. You may be doing her a favor by nudging her to get him out of her home.
post #45 of 90
My DH wouldn't move his own child in many of those situations as long as it didn't hurt or inadvertantly arouse him. Someone else's child he may remove sooner.
Once a person has been asked to not let the child do that, he/she should be able to follow the parent's wishes.

He can't or won't. I think your Grandma is doing the right thing in really looking into which it is in this case.

You and her are not just following your ideas of what is going on. You are looking into it and asking professional opinions. That is more than many parents do.

(((hugs))) and I'm sure you and your Grandma will do everything you can to help your DD grow up healthy and happy.
post #46 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.
I haven't been reading MDC long enough to have seen a pattern. I can't address what other people are talking about, but when I said that people with brain injuries are not very good at controlling their actions I am speaking from the experience of growing up with a brother who had a Severe Traumatic Brain Injury and who required care from the day of his accident to the day of his death. I lived around hospitals for the brain injured through most of my childhood. I do have a fair bit of experience on this topic.

In those facilities as a young girl I was attacked by male patients quite a few times. My brother tried to rape me. It isn't that all people with brain injuries act this way--I'm well aware of that--but that if a brain injured male is behaving in a way that feels kind of creepy and sexual I have had enough experience to watch that like a hawk and be cautious. I don't think that is being ableist, I think that is learning from my experiences.
post #47 of 90
Nobody has the God Like Powers to assure that your child will be protected from a member of the household you are leaving them in. No one.

Not you. Not a gma. Not Superman with XRay Vision.

If this man is causing you issues, and you suspect he has a problem there is NO WAY that the gma could possibly assure that nothing happens

I GUARANTEE that if you ask around about the women on here who have mothers and grandmothers who THOUGHT that they could protect them from a household member when they were young, you will find that their mothers and grandmothers (aunts, family friends.....) were wrong ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the time.

You have a strict rule about men that you defend even though it may not be rational and exists without any specific reason.

But when faced with an ACTUAL real present observed known danger, you refuse to act.
post #48 of 90
May, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for.

I agreee with you that this whole situation has a vague yucky feelinga bout it, and that you're not being overly sensitive.

You've said that you've addressed the problem numerous times and it keeps continueing.

You've implied that you can't really rest comfortably taking the baby over there and leaving her on a regular basis.

On the other hand, you say Gramma loves the baby and would never let anything happen to her while you're gone.

You seem to completely trust that your Gramma will take good care of your Baby while you're gone.

You're Gramma would be torn up inside if not able to see your baby, and your baby is the light of her life, and you don't want to take that away from her.

You're Gramma seems to want whatever ist he absolute best for her.

BUT on the other side of THAT coin, Gramma is not willing to help you put your mind at ease and put the little baby completely out of harms way by coming to your house to babysit in substitution for the current arrangements.

I'm sure pregnancy is borrowing some of my brain cells right now, but....

.....

I'm confused. If you completely trust Gramma to keep the kiddo out of harms way while you're not there, what's the problem?

What exactly is it that you are looking for from us?
Every option the posters have mentioned has been crossed out in your book. What else is there?

I think you know what you need to do, but you are trying to justify it all away, which is an understandable reaction, but one you need to work past.

(and from recent personal experience, I think (especially with potty training around the corner, as a pp mentioned) this situation with gramma's husband has the potential of getting worse before it can get better....)
post #49 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demeter9 View Post
You have a strict rule about men that you defend even though it may not be rational and exists without any specific reason.

But when faced with an ACTUAL real present observed known danger, you refuse to act.
This. This is what shows that your decision-making skills seem to be impaired by your life's experiences. Leaving a child in a household with someone you find scary and not trustworthy is not a sound decision. No matter how careful the caregiver is.

And "protecting" your child from half the population of the planet by NEVER allowing her to be with them or have relationships with them- with NO reason at all is not a sound decision. No matter how traumatic your past.

-Angela
post #50 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayBaby2007 View Post
At least I know I'm not being sensitive, thank you. It's my gramma's husband. He is never alone with her. Never. But, gramma watches dd a couple days/week and we visit over there. He has a frontal lobe brain injury--impulse control problems, being child-like, etc.
Okay - this strikes home with me way too hard. I was molested by my grandfather...after he suffered a brain hemorrhage, which affected many of the things you're talking about here. His sense of right and wrong, especially where sexual issues were concerned, was profoundly affected by the damage.

I strongly suggest putting an end to having your grandma babysit. My grandfather was physically incapable of forcing us, and he was also incapable of luring in victims, or setting up scenarios where he had children available to molest. My grandmother, however, was perfectly capable of making sure the grandchildren were available for him, and she did so. She bought us off with candy, encouraged us to lie and never let a hint of the problem show to my mom. (The truth came out when my brother spent the night at the same time we did once. We normally alternated weekends, and my brother is 5 years older, so he was able to pick up on some oddities about the dynamic when we were there...and to bring them up to my moml.)

I have no idea if your grandma's husband is anything like my grandfather, but your above post obviously hit my triggers.
post #51 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel View Post
what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.
I don't know that it happens "all the time", but it happens. In my grandfather's case, he had a hemorrhage - I'd guess an aneurysm, but all the family was told (this was almost 40 years ago) was that it was a hemorrhage. Brain injuries can affect impulse control, and affect the way someone processes social norms (a friend of my mom's, after a stroke, would swear in church, for example)...that's not "ableist" - it's a sad reality. Brain injuries can do some really weird things.
post #52 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
My partner will let a child be in contact with his genitals through clothing if:
1. It's not painful or uncomfortable for him.
2. He is not at all aroused for any reason.
He probably would let contact continue, for a short time, in the situations you mention. HOWEVER, if you ever spoke to him and said that for your peace of mind you wanted him not to allow this and to redirect your child immediately, he would do that.
That's about where I stand, and how I would handle it if it were my genitals in questions.

May...I have to say that the more you post about your grandmother, the more my triggers are hit. She loves your dd so much that she'll "kill her husband" if she has to. She loves your dd so much that she'll leave her husband if she has to. But, she doesn't love your dd enough to come and look after her somewhere away from her husband, because she likes to be at her own home?

If things are that bad in her marriage, then leaving probably wouldn't be a bad idea. But, to stay with him, while saying that she'll leave him because of your dd, while still looking after your dd in a house that he's in is totally illogical.

Oh - and my grandmother would flip out and cry and be absolutely heartbroken if anyone talked about taking us away from her, too. That has nothing to do with what's best for the children in a situation like this.
post #53 of 90
Hey, Maybaby2007, It's NOT APPROPRIATE AT ALL! Your definetly not being too sensitive! It sounds like all in all this is a very unhealthy situation for your dd to be in, (man with brain injury, inappropriate actions with dd, impluse control issues, gramma stressed out, over emotional over situation, yelling, crying, ect.) I would say get dd out of that situation immediately! It's good that you and gramma are addressing this situation, but you should have dd out of there while your doing it! Oh and as stormbride said your grammas behavior is very illogical! Actions speak louder than words, if gramma means what she says and cares so much about your dd, she would whatch her at your house, to keep her away from her husband! It's sad it sounds like neither you or gramma is willing to put your dd daughter first, ( your putting you and your gramma first, and grammas putting herself, first) DD is first! :
post #54 of 90
Things happen. There is no way to be sure that something might come up and your child is unwatched for a moment. And that's all it takes to forever scar someone, just a tiny little moment.
post #55 of 90
I am with the other posters who wonder whether if you presented your G with the choice of either:

1. Watching your daughter at your house with GH; or
2. Not getting to watch your daughter at all;

Why she would not choose #1? It's such an easy solution and addresses all of your concerns. And it seems as if it would be kind to G as she would only have the responsibility of watching only your daughter instead of your daughter AND GH.

Just curious and trying not to judge, but it seems so obvious.
post #56 of 90
Please mentally correct the last post to read:

1. Watching your daughter at your house WITHOUT GH; or
post #57 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayBaby2007 View Post
I never thought she would be hurt because there has never been an opportunity for her to be hurt...and there never will be.
That is the single most dangerous belief you could hold about your daughter.

I don't know how to make that clear to you.


Edited to add: Yes, GH not moving when your daughter bumps into his crotch after you've expressed discomfort is inappropriate, I totally agree there.
post #58 of 90
I know it's unlikely, but what if your g'ma was injured or became ill while your dd was in her care? You have to be able to trust that *anyone* in the house would have your dd's best interests in mind when you're not there.
post #59 of 90
OMG! Maybaby at this point in this thread I am really feeling sorry for you. I bet you are about to pull your hair out! My advice now? There is way too much advice in this thread for one person to comprehend so go with your gut even if it is over reacting. You are your DD's mom so you have the right to over react if something makes you uncomfortable. I hope you get everything worked out without hurt feelings or more frustration on your part.
post #60 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadmom View Post
I know it's unlikely, but what if your g'ma was injured or became ill while your dd was in her care? You have to be able to trust that *anyone* in the house would have your dd's best interests in mind when you're not there.
Exactly! What if Grandma gets a sudden stomach flu and has to run to the bathroom to vomit. Do you really think she is going to grab your daughter and take her with her to watch her vomit? You absolutely CANNOT know that this man will never be alone with your daughter. Period. I pray to God that we never have to read a post here from you talking about your daughter was molested.
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