Appropriate touches and men question - Page 5

[Demeter9]

I am going to recommend also that you pick up Gavin De Becker's books! I think that having some solid recommendations will help you, that back up some of what you are thinking, gives you a plan and some realistic ideas to work with AND steers you away from unnecessary (and dangerous) faliacies and fears.


Oh. And all people will break your heart. Everyone will disappoint you sometimes. The strength of you, is that you have the internal solidity to live through it and not let it colour your whole life. : Not always the easiest, but it does make life more worth living.

(it is like a play on "this job would be great if it weren't for the customers." "This relationship would be great if you'd just stop being human." )

[newmainer]

I'm going to follow GuildJen and say something that i hope will come off as gentle and caring, but i was also struck by your last post.

Being comfortable having your dd with other people to the extent that you would let them change her diaper isn't something that - imo- should be a 'goal'. you have alluded in your posts that you have history and issues that you are working with that influence your comfort level with dd and men as well as strangers and personally i think *that's fine*. If your dd grows up a little more protected.. well, just be honest with her about it as she gets older and asks questions as it comes up.

Your situation with your neighbor sounds great... but, i dont' know. If it was me, the first folks who took my dd away from me besides family wouldn't be taking her for 2 hours. I don't care if it's across the street. You also said you "knew" she wouldnt' be alone with the men. How could you *possibly* know that? I mean, it doesnt' even matter *who* she would be alone with. I dont' know, i guess it seems like you have this idea that if you felt comfortable leaving your dd in x.y.z situation (whatever you have decided in your mind is 'reasonable') that = some resolution on your own issues.

I feel like i'm not explaining myself right.
I have been lucky - thus far- to have had 99.9% positive experiences with people (won't single out men here) in my life. No assaults. Nearly nothing.

But- I am totally conscious of who changes my dc's diapers or who they spend time with without me. Neither of her grandfather's offers to change diapers, or will, if they are in their care. They pass them off to me or their father or grandmother. I would never have handed off one of my dc's to a neighbor who i have a new relationship with for 2 hours. Maybe 15 min. It would take me several visits, my house and theirs, and some shorter dc-only visits (like 15, then 30 or so...) before i'd get to that chunk of time. Not that time makes any difference... anything can happen in 5 min. let alone 2 hrs. but... testing the waters, yk? Did they have fun? What did they do? How did i feel about the situation? etc...

I just think that if you are a more cautious parent- GREAT. Don't set yourself and your dd up to some 'standard' that you think signals healthy relationships with others. Go by your *own* gut and what you know to be true.

I think your process and decision to remove your dd from your G's care was courageous and difficult... way to be a mama-bear! Your dd is young, you'll get lots more practice to come! (hopefully in situations not as heartwrenching as this one!)

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by alegna

:

I believe I have responded before that your rule about never alone with a male is WAY out of line and will be seriously damaging.

-Angela

Gotta agree with this. Chances are, if you decide to have your child attend school, that she will have at least a few male teachers before she turns 18 - teaching her through your actions that all males are to be feared because they might molest you will do her nothing but harm in the future, possibly imparing her ability to have a healthy relationship with the opposite sex.

If you have a bad mommy intuition about GH then by all means act on it, we are usually right when it comes to our intuition, but please reconsider the way you portray men in her presence.

[Blucactus]

Originally Posted by MayBaby2007

If a man is standing with legs spread wide and a child walks up and puts her face in his crotch (right on his penis) and he just stands there...is that inappropriate?

If a man is sitting spread eagle on the edge of a chair and a child walks up and pats his crotch and he just sits there...is that inappropriate?

I've been having ongoing problems with my gramma's husband and I'm at the end of my rope. I've talked and bitched for almost a year. I'm going to hurt him if I see him let dd touch his penis again.

Am I being too sensitive? I don't see this problem with dd and her dad--only gramma's husband. These are the only 2 men dd is around so I don't know if I'm just being too sensitive.

As a woman and her mom, dd comes in contact with my crotch quite often. But I also don't have hanging parts like a man. If I'm rocking her, her foot might land on my pevic bone area and that's okay with me. But, if her foot actually falls betwen my legs and is touching my vagina/clitoris, I move her foot because I don't think that's appropriate. A man is just "out there" and I just don't know if what he's doing is way out of line or somewhat common. Help please? Frazzled mama.

i am going to bypass the other things that came out in this discussion & add my vote to the original question-i think a normal grown person would naturally shift their body probably (even subconciously) if a child was unintentionally touching their privates--particularly if it was not THEIR child.

[lolalola]

Maybaby~

I think you are doing EXACTLY what a good mother should do...trusting your own instincts, trying your best to protect your daughter and asking for help/advice when you feel you need it.

You sound very level-headed, to me. All the best!

[valkyrina]

Maybaby:
First of all, kudos to you for pulling your child out of a situation that you felt was unhealthy. It sounds like it took a lot of courage, and I hope you are feeling proud that you did the right thing. As for your question in the original post, it would definitely make me feel icky as well. I think there is no 'right' or 'wrong' to something like that, you just have to go with your comfort level, which you did.

I also want to chime in on what is increasingly a very heated argument, but I want to start by saying it's not my intention to pick a fight with you or judge you.

I DON'T think you need to go out and show your child's nudie booty to a bunch of men.
I DON'T think your daughter needs to be exposed to penises at an early age.
I DON'T think that it's appropriate for strange men to be changing her diaper or being alone with her.
It's not good or healthy for your daughter (or for your mental health) to have her be left alone with men that you don't trust or know.
I don't think anyone is making any of these arguments. (I hope!)

It sounds as if you don't really have any good male friends that you trust, or really any men in your life (other than dd's dad) who you trust to babysit your daughter. In that light, your rule about not leaving her alone with men (other than her dad, I hope) makes a lot of sense. I have two boys, and they are not alone with men other than my dad and their dad. Only because none of the other men I know (and would trust) could handle 8-month-old twins on their own, but still.

I think that what people are reacting to, and what I react to most viscerally on this issue, is the blanket rule about men, with no exceptions. I think that many blanket rules on many topics can cause problems. I would wish for you that you are able leave yourself the freedom to make exceptions to this rule when you feel comfortable with a male that you trust and know well.

I am also a victim of sexual abuse, and I understand the horror that comes at the thought that your child may suffer the same kind of experience. I think even lucky moms who have never had this kind of thing happen to them can imagine how horrible it would be. I think you need to do whatever you can to protect your daughter, especially in this age when such a ridiculously high percentage of our women are being abused. I understand that you are working on your issues, and it's really great that you are getting the help that you need to feel better, but it does take time. I would recommend that you do a lot of reading (the books that someone else recommended sound really great), and a lot of thinking about where your boundaries are (I think you are already working on this one).

Of course you are free to parent your child in a way that you see fit. No one is trying to take that away from you. If you have never seen men around children and never had positive males in your life, then I can understand your fears. But I also want to assure you that there are men out in the world who would be wonderful influences on your child. Many of my male friends are going to be great teachers and role models for my boys as they get older, and I would wish the same for your daughter. Does that mean you need to go out and leave her alone with them asap? Absolutely not. But my hope for you is that you are able to work through your issues and meet some male friends who will show you that not all men are to be feared.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

[MayBaby2007]

Blucactus thank you. It's comforting to know I (hopefully) made the right decision with G/GH.

lolalola

It sounds as if you don't really have any good male friends that you trust, or really any men in your life (other than dd's dad) who you trust to babysit your daughter. In that light, your rule about not leaving her alone with men (other than her dad, I hope) makes a lot of sense.

That is exactly the case. Maybe I never made that point clear. DD's dad is the ONLY man in my life. He's been the only man in my life for years. I trust him 200% with dd. He's as paranoid as I am, if not more about this topic. We've been on and off for years and I've dated here and there...but never formed a bond with another man like him. I don't think I will. I don't think I want another man. Another woman, sure...but not into men all that much. At all. DD's dad is special...he had a way with me.....and I think he'll be the last for me. He gave me a beautiful dd who I will protect 'til my death. DD will probably grow up with one dad/stepmom....and me/stepmom. Maybe I'm scared of men....maybe I'm just more comfy with women. I dunno...but I don't forsee meeting anymore men in my life. I don't want to. So yeah, she'll have more female exposure...but she will have male exposure (just not as much and won't be alone with anyone but her father....FOR NOW).

DD's half brothers are young curious (1)preteen/(1)teen boys. They've been caught numerous times checking out porn, sneaking peeks of their aunt getting dressed/undressed, figured out the code on the TV and ordered a porn movie, etc. That's all normal, IMO. But the fact of the matter is they are young, horny, curious boys....and they do NOT need to see my dd naked or be alone with her. Period. Their dad (dd's dad) agrees 200% that they shouldn't see her naked or be alone with her. At least for now. Maybe when they're older things will be different. For now, we are doing what we believe is the best course of action to protect our dd.

It all seems perfectly logical to me...and dd's dad. Nothing anyone says will change my (his) mind, so why even try anymore?

Thanks for all the positive input (for those who were supportive/positive/stuck to the actual question at hand)....all greatly appreciated!

[BelovedK]

Hi all a few posts have been removed because of UA violations, or QUOTING posts that had been removed. If there are any questions, feel free to PM me. Let's keep this thread on track and only respond to MayBaby on the concern she brings to this thread and not refer to old posts.

Thank you.

[~Boudicca~]

Maybaby I remember your threads in the past and I can see how hard it is to have these issues with men. I am glad you are working through them whether or not I agree with some of your viewpoints. Good for you for deciding to reevaluate your dd's childcare situation, it is hard to hurt your G-ma but when your baby's safety is in question it doesn't really matter whose feelings get hurt as long as she is safe from harm.

I agree with Demeter you really need to pick up a copy of Protecting the Gift by Gavin de Becker. It will lend you a lot of insight and hopefully will enforce you to be able to trust your gut more.

Good luck with everything and I hope you find healing in your life.

[hippiemum21580]

I just wanted to mention something.....I am VERY careful about who I trust with my children. Very. I always believed between that and my open talks with my sons about appropriate touching and what to do if someone makes them uncomfortable...(and trust me, these were very thorough open frank discussions and I really thought they GOT it) that my diligence woudl keep them from harm.
Well, it turns out that my 4 year old was sexually molested by an 8 year old girl IN MY OWN HOME> She was molested herself at a younger age and I did not know about this or I woudl have been more diligent. It is my friends daughter who I babysat often and though they were never alone for prolonged times...it did not take much. Once they set up a tent with a blanket in teh bedroom to block my view but the door was open and they were only in there long enough for me to vacuum the livingrrom with teh door open and the bedroom within my line of sight. Plain and simple, you cannot garuntee no harm ever coming to your child. Therefore living paranoid may do more harm then good.
THAT being said......there is a difference between blind paranoia and mothers intuition. If ANY teensy bit of your heart says your daughter is not okay in the current situation, please please please follow your heart. Could gramma babysit at YOUR home without her husband? Trust me, the guilt you will carry if you HAD the option to do things different and didn't and GOD FORBID something happened....... I understand that feeling all too well. Though I was unaware of the girls past experience and never considered another CHILD to be a possible threat... I still feel so guilty that my son lost his innocense right in my own home.