What would you say ........

[ishereal]

to someone that said the reason they gave their baby formula was to flush out his jaundice ::: Also the reason they gave the baby formula was because they wanted to make sure their baby got all the nutrients he needs ::: imagine the baby was about 5 days old and the mom started to breast feed but was worried because she did not know if the baby was getting enough milk also the baby had not had a bowel movement in 24 hours which could be due to the jaundice and seemed a bit constipated ?????????????? ::

[Mama~Love]

Lack of basic knowledge about breastfeeding is really sad, and makes me angry too. You'd think some moms-to-be would actually read a book on breastfeeding if they were planning on nursing in the first place.

[BugMacGee]

Jaundice doesn't cause constipation. Not pooping can contribute to jaundice.

Formula does help get rid of jaundice but breastmilk does it much better.

[Ruthla]

If the baby was much older, I'd commiserate that they had so little BF support in the hospital and I'm sorry they didn't get the support and information they needed to BF sucessfully.

For a 5 day old, I'd tell her to nurse, nurse, nurse, and not worry about time limits or feeding schedules- the baby's frequent nursing will help build up a good supply. I'd encourage her to talk to an LC or LLL leader for help in determining that the baby is getting enough milk, has a good latch, etc. She may need to gradually wean off supplements if she's been FF for 5 days- her milk may not be fully in yet due to the lack of breast stimulation, and she's likely to need lots of support getting BF started after that rough patch.

I woudln't feel safe telling her to keep on using formula indiscriminently because that can mess up the development of her milk supply, but I also wouldn't feel safe telling her to ditch the formula and only nurse without the baby being evaluated, because she has a 5 day old baby and possibly a supply that's better suited to a 2 day old. Combined with the jaundice, the baby MIGHT need a little bit of extra calories while her milk supply catches up.

The point is that this baby is under a week old, and with the right info and support this mom can fully BF this particular baby (assuming her hormone levels are normal, baby has normal mouth development, etc.) Forget the anger and focus on concrete help to get her nursing, and if supplements are needed make sure they're only using the amount the baby needs and only for as long as absolutely necessary.

[MaryJaneLouise]

I would be really mad at whoever it was that was telling her that BS, especially if it was a health care provider

[apelilae]

I've encountered that a lot around here when I'm doing home visits with new moms. In my experience, it was at the direction of their pedis. If the moms were not okay with that advice, I gave them the correct information. If they were okay with it, I didn't say anything.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

If the baby was much older, I'd commiserate that they had so little BF support in the hospital and I'm sorry they didn't get the support and information they needed to BF sucessfully.

For a 5 day old, I'd tell her to nurse, nurse, nurse, and not worry about time limits or feeding schedules- the baby's frequent nursing will help build up a good supply. I'd encourage her to talk to an LC or LLL leader for help in determining that the baby is getting enough milk, has a good latch, etc. She may need to gradually wean off supplements if she's been FF for 5 days- her milk may not be fully in yet due to the lack of breast stimulation, and she's likely to need lots of support getting BF started after that rough patch.

I woudln't feel safe telling her to keep on using formula indiscriminently because that can mess up the development of her milk supply, but I also wouldn't feel safe telling her to ditch the formula and only nurse without the baby being evaluated, because she has a 5 day old baby and possibly a supply that's better suited to a 2 day old. Combined with the jaundice, the baby MIGHT need a little bit of extra calories while her milk supply catches up.

The point is that this baby is under a week old, and with the right info and support this mom can fully BF this particular baby (assuming her hormone levels are normal, baby has normal mouth development, etc.) Forget the anger and focus on concrete help to get her nursing, and if supplements are needed make sure they're only using the amount the baby needs and only for as long as absolutely necessary.

Yes this.

My son had about half an ounce of formula in hospital, recommended by the staff because of his jaundice and the fact that my milk wasn't yet in. Aside from that half ounce, he was exclusively breast fed until we introduced solids at six months. The LC who went on a tear about how that half ounce was terrible! and wrong! was the very opposite of helpful. I left that consultation feeling not only as though I had failed, but as though my failure was irrecoverable. I left that consultation with my back against the wall, ready to fling the reasons for my decision at anyone who questioned it. I did read books on breastfeeding. I wasn't stupid or uninformed. I was trying really hard to care for my new son.

I gave my son formula at that time for the same reasons I breastfed him otherwise: because I wanted what was best for him, because I needed to make sure he was getting adequate nutrition. I was lucky to have a visiting nurse who was understanding about all this, and who encouraged us to keep nursing in terms that I was able to hear as help and not as condemnation.

[MarcyC]

I'd want to hear the whole story and I'd recommend mom see a really good LC to get before and after weight checks and to make sure she had good positioning/latch, etc... I was someone who had a severely jaundiced baby and I didn't want formula to even cross her lips, but in the end I conceded when the LC told me the bottom line was to feed the baby!!

[Jennifer-Juniper]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I wouldn't feel safe telling her to keep on using formula indiscriminately because that can mess up the development of her milk supply, but I also wouldn't feel safe telling her to ditch the formula and only nurse without the baby being evaluated, because she has a 5 day old baby and possibly a supply that's better suited to a 2 day old. Combined with the jaundice, the baby MIGHT need a little bit of extra calories while her milk supply catches up.

The point is that this baby is under a week old, and with the right info and support this mom can fully BF this particular baby (assuming her hormone levels are normal, baby has normal mouth development, etc.) Forget the anger and focus on concrete help to get her nursing, and if supplements are needed make sure they're only using the amount the baby needs and only for as long as absolutely necessary.

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

Yes this.

My son had about half an ounce of formula in hospital, recommended by the staff because of his jaundice and the fact that my milk wasn't yet in. Aside from that half ounce, he was exclusively breast fed until we introduced solids at six months. The LC who went on a tear about how that half ounce was terrible! and wrong! was the very opposite of helpful. I left that consultation feeling not only as though I had failed, but as though my failure was irrecoverable. I left that consultation with my back against the wall, ready to fling the reasons for my decision at anyone who questioned it. I did read books on breastfeeding. I wasn't stupid or uninformed. I was trying really hard to care for my new son.

I gave my son formula at that time for the same reasons I breastfed him otherwise: because I wanted what was best for him, because I needed to make sure he was getting adequate nutrition. I was lucky to have a visiting nurse who was understanding about all this, and who encouraged us to keep nursing in terms that I was able to hear as help and not as condemnation.

Ditto the above.

I had a son who was born 6 weeks early and spent time in the NICU not because he was "premature," but because he was very jaundiced. Although I BF -- and BF exclusively until we introduced solids at around 8 months -- we did supplement with formula in the NICU until my milk came in around day 3 or 4. I don't consider my BF to be any less exclusive because of this very early supplementing. Since my milk wasn't in yet, he got whatever colostrum I could pump and I looked at that early formula as "medicine" that he needed, both to keep his birthweight up (necessary if he was to get out of the NICU and come home) and to knock out the jaundice (ditto). Once started producing enough breastmilk, that was all he got.

I don't agree with the other statements about "getting nutrients" and constipation, but I take jaundice very seriously. It can be common, but that doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.

I think with a 5 day old, though, positive support is the best approach.

[kalisis]

I would send them to a LLL leader immediately!

[trini]

She's getting this information from her health care provider(s) and having a newborn is a very vulnerable time. My ds was jaundiced and formula was also pushed on us.

I think the recommendation of having her get some advice from LLL or a good lactation consultant is the key. She has to get the info from someone she "trusts" as much as the doctor.

[LittlePeanut]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

If the baby was much older, I'd commiserate that they had so little BF support in the hospital and I'm sorry they didn't get the support and information they needed to BF sucessfully.

For a 5 day old, I'd tell her to nurse, nurse, nurse, and not worry about time limits or feeding schedules- the baby's frequent nursing will help build up a good supply. I'd encourage her to talk to an LC or LLL leader for help in determining that the baby is getting enough milk, has a good latch, etc. She may need to gradually wean off supplements if she's been FF for 5 days- her milk may not be fully in yet due to the lack of breast stimulation, and she's likely to need lots of support getting BF started after that rough patch.

I woudln't feel safe telling her to keep on using formula indiscriminently because that can mess up the development of her milk supply, but I also wouldn't feel safe telling her to ditch the formula and only nurse without the baby being evaluated, because she has a 5 day old baby and possibly a supply that's better suited to a 2 day old. Combined with the jaundice, the baby MIGHT need a little bit of extra calories while her milk supply catches up.

The point is that this baby is under a week old, and with the right info and support this mom can fully BF this particular baby (assuming her hormone levels are normal, baby has normal mouth development, etc.) Forget the anger and focus on concrete help to get her nursing, and if supplements are needed make sure they're only using the amount the baby needs and only for as long as absolutely necessary.

ITA! If she has said these things to you, you need to educate her NOW before it's too late to turn back! GL.

LP

[nevaehsmommy]

I would say the mom was like me. I listened to the doctor. I did not know any better. They told me to pump after she nursed and give her two ounces more of the formula/breastmilk combo.

Just bc formula is introduced early for whatever reason does not mean breastfeeding is doomed.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by ishereal

to someone that said....

"I'm so sorry your doctor lied to you. It is just astonishing the amount of misinformation some people are willing to spread about breastfeeding and formula. But at least you'll be just fine if you nurse on demand, like when the baby roots at your shoulder."

Only, as a 6 months pregnant first-time mom, I'd actually say something more like "really? I was reading this website called Kelley mom with tons of research studies on breastfeeding and it didn't mention anything like that. Are you still going to be able to breastfeed if you're giving so much formula? Are you sure you need to give formula? I hope that doesn't happen to me!"

[Twinklefae]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

"I'm so sorry your doctor lied to you. It is just astonishing the amount of misinformation some people are willing to spread about breastfeeding and formula. But at least you'll be just fine if you nurse on demand, like when the baby roots at your shoulder."

: I always try to blame someone else so that the mama feels good, and knows that she can try again. Either with the baby she's got (in this example) or with the next one.

I also like to point out the lack of training doctors get about breastfeeding.

[beccalou79]

I would say nothing judgmental, because I can relate to the first part of your scenario. My firstborn had severe jaundice at birth, so much so that she was too lethargic to nurse for more than a minute or two at a time. That led to a weight gain of just one ounce by her two-week check-up. It was a terrifying time for us as first-time parents-- heck, I think it would scare any parent. We did the whole nursing-in-the-sunlight thing to try to rid her body of the jaundice, but for whatever reason, the levels kept rising, to the point that we got an emergency call in the middle of the night from an intern who read her latest results at the hospital and was panicked at how close she was to the brain damaging level. Ultimately our pedi recommended we do a pump-and-dump for 24 hours while feeding her formula, and you know what? It worked almost immediately.

Now, I do not support the use of formula for convenience' sake. I believe in breastfeeding so passionately that I hope to become a lactation consultant someday. But when I've done "all the right things" for my child and something is still going wrong, then heck yeah, I'll try all my other options to save her. It was the lowest of low moments for me, a first-time mom who felt like her body had failed her and her child, and the last thing I needed at a time like that was judgment and snarky remarks. So if you really want to say something? Please say it with compassion, especially if you've never walked in those shoes.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by beccalou79

I would say nothing judgmental, because I can relate to the first part of your scenario. My firstborn had severe jaundice at birth, so much so that she was too lethargic to nurse for more than a minute or two at a time. That led to a weight gain of just one ounce by her two-week check-up. It was a terrifying time for us as first-time parents-- heck, I think it would scare any parent. We did the whole nursing-in-the-sunlight thing to try to rid her body of the jaundice, but for whatever reason, the levels kept rising, to the point that we got an emergency call in the middle of the night from an intern who read her latest results at the hospital and was panicked at how close she was to the brain damaging level. Ultimately our pedi recommended we do a pump-and-dump for 24 hours while feeding her formula, and you know what? It worked almost immediately.

so why do you think the formula worked to get rid of the jaundice, but breastfeeding did not? i'm not being snarky, btw. honestly curious, wanting to learn

[_betsy_]

I'd say something like "Who told you that? Because everything I've read is that nursing a lot is really great for getting rid of jaundice, and that you can tell baby's getting enough milk by the diapers - and BM is a lot easier to digest than formula so it should help the constipation. And really, BM has more nutrients than formula. From what I've read, you shuld just try to nurse as often as possible. I know in those first few weeks I felt like all we did was nurse, but that's really normal for a newborn! Let me find you my Dr. Sears Baby Book, and the Breastfeeding Book - they really saved my sanity in the beginning!"

[purplestraws]

Originally Posted by nevaehsmommy

I would say the mom was like me. I listened to the doctor. I did not know any better.

:

Don't just assume the mother was ignorant. I thought I knew everything I'd need to know about breastfeeding when I went in to have our baby. I didn't know anything about jaundice though. And when the doctor's said that he was VERY jaundiced and my milk wasn't in yet the only thing we could do was give formula. I protested the formula because I knew that it would have a detrimental effect on breastfeeding...but was told that, at that point, formula was the only way to get rid of the jaundice and if we didn't use formula, our son might possibly suffer brain damage.

And...my little boy didn't learn how to latch until he was 2 months old...and my already tiny supply was almost gone at that point. I had to redefine what successful breastfeeding looked like for us. And though my milk is almost completely gone...at 15 months...DS still loves to nurse.

Don't just assume the mom is ignorant. Be kind and educate her so she's prepared for next time.

[acannon]

I was told to supplement for jaundice by my son's pediatrician. She gave us a big thing of formula, too. I tried it once, but he wouldn't eat it, so I didn't pressure him. I just made sure he got enough breastmilk and some sunlight and it was all good. It doesn't surprise me that people are being told this misinformation, but it is sad, especially since some (probably most) mothers switch over to formula because of it. It is all about misinformation, though, and I wish more moms were informed and that more doctors were confident about how good breastmilk is for babies. I got the vit. D spiel, too, which I also didn't buy into. Ugh.