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3 year old, 3 cavities...they want to use the papoose. - Page 2  

post #21 of 33
Calla, you need to find another dentist! It has been my experience that some dentists are very gifted with young children. If a child is freaking during the exam, then it is not a good fit. My kids are quite intense yet we have been able to find 2 dental professionals who are great with them. Other parents have experienced the same with these professionals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
The problem with the papoose is that it doesn't protect the child from mental harm. And as parents our children's long term physical and mental health are of utmost importance. The papoose may be a means to an end for you, as someone that clearly works in the dental field but parents have much more to consider. And I resent your showing up here and trying to sell the papoose as some sort of benign technique.
FWIW, I want to extend a big welcome to dental professionals in this subforum . I have learned a lot from dental professionals who have been brave enough to post in forums and yahoogroups -- even though they tend to get a lot of flack. It's a chance for me to learn why they do what they do -- even if I disagree with it. IMO, parents would be wise to ask questions and raise concerns without making it personal .

In kiddie's defense, the papoose is just a tool. I think that for some children, the sensory experience of being restrained might actually calm them down. I think the problem is that the papoose is often used to perform procedures against a child's will, possibly when the child is terrified. This seems like torture to me. OTOH, the dentist is in a difficult position when a parent wants dental treatment and refuses GA for a young child. Does the dentist risk causing serious harm to a resisting child with dental tools? I cannot imagine being asked to drill into a child's mouth while they are resisting when I have problems even brushing my child's teeth -- and I'm the parent. They are in a difficult position IMO. Some of the oral sedation methods are risky -- for example chloral hydrate in the dentist's office (more risky than GA IMO). Nitrous oxide would probably work on some children, but not the more intense, strong-willed types who need more work.

I am thrilled that we don't have to make these choices. I did not feel comfortable with GA or oral sedation or the papoose. I am really thilled that my plan to arrest dd's decay and remineralize is working. If dd develops an abcess or our strategy stops working, we will probably go the GA route.
post #22 of 33
It doesn't surprise me about the concern some over the papoose. Let me clarify. I was not selling the papoose as a benign technique but rather a choice, period. If the child has cavities and the parents may not want to sedate or place the child under general anesthesia then the papoose is an option. You missed my entire point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
Until you've seen your own child in a papoose please dont coment on them.
Furthermore, I have used a papoose on my own child so to this poster that says for me to not comment on it without having done it on my own child, I have just earned my keep thank you.
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksenia View Post
Calla, you need to find another dentist! It has been my experience that some dentists are very gifted with young children. If a child is freaking during the exam, then it is not a good fit. My kids are quite intense yet we have been able to find 2 dental professionals who are great with them. Other parents have experienced the same with these professionals.FWIW, I want to extend a big welcome to dental professionals in this subforum . I have learned a lot from dental professionals who have been brave enough to post in forums and yahoogroups -- even though they tend to get a lot of flack. It's a chance for me to learn why they do what they do -- even if I disagree with it. IMO, parents would be wise to ask questions and raise concerns without making it personal .

In kiddie's defense, the papoose is just a tool. I think that for some children, the sensory experience of being restrained might actually calm them down. I think the problem is that the papoose is often used to perform procedures against a child's will, possibly when the child is terrified. This seems like torture to me. OTOH, the dentist is in a difficult position when a parent wants dental treatment and refuses GA for a young child. Does the dentist risk causing serious harm to a resisting child with dental tools? I cannot imagine being asked to drill into a child's mouth while they are resisting when I have problems even brushing my child's teeth -- and I'm the parent. They are in a difficult position IMO. Some of the oral sedation methods are risky -- for example chloral hydrate in the dentist's office (more risky than GA IMO). Nitrous oxide would probably work on some children, but not the more intense, strong-willed types who need more work.

I am thrilled that we don't have to make these choices. I did not feel comfortable with GA or oral sedation or the papoose. I am really thilled that my plan to arrest dd's decay and remineralize is working. If dd develops an abcess or our strategy stops working, we will probably go the GA route.
I do appreciate your post as some of the responses were just as you described.

You hit the nail on the head and I appreciate you correctly interpreting where I was coming from.

The papoose is a very touchy subject for some and that is understandable. However, to make those that use it as evildoers is simply not right.
post #24 of 33
Calla, have you had the work done yet?

If you haven't, do keep looking for a dentist. We saw 3 in total for my son, and the differences were wild. We finally went with a ped dentist who works in a practice where they are known to sing children through fillings.

My son had a big cavity filled with absolutely no medications. Being able to watch Finding Nemo on the TV in the ceiling was enough for him. He also was laying with most of his body on my hubby's lap, with his head and upper back on the dentist's lap, rather than forcing him to be all by himself on the table.

He also had to have two teeth extracted; they grew in yellow, turned brown, and started disintegrating. The dentist used a tiny bit of lidocaine and pulled them within seconds, again, while DS watched Finding Nemo. But this was his third visit and he was brave enough to get up on the table that time!

This guy is really great; he is more interested in keeping an eye on things than jumping at every little thing.

Whereas the second guy was ready to fill every tiny thing he found (our guy has now been watching those same things for 1.5 years and they haven't changed), and he insisted on GA in the office, coordinating with our medical insurance to get the anesthesiologist to the dentist's office along with a nurse AND we woudln't be allowed back with him. Was planning on pulling the two teeth along with two others b/c of the cavity that was filled by our guy with no problems and no anesthesia of any kind. That would have meant DS would be missing his top center four teeth, from the age of 2. This guy also had a very fancy, lovely office.

The dentist we chose has a nice little office with TONS of toys, but they are all crammed together b/c the office is much smaller than the other guy's. Oh, and the guy who insisted on GA and all that...he made all these diagnoses with even taking an xray.


If you haven't had the work done, keep looking.
post #25 of 33
Just seeing the picture of a child in a papoose made me want to cry.
And the idea of taking care of a child's cavities without anesthesia didn't help.
I dont think its just me that finds it incredibly painful?
There is no way I would have my daughter go through that without some kind of anesthesia.

I'm just curious if mama's not wanting sedatives/anesthesia for their children have had the same type of work done anesthesia free?
post #26 of 33
My son is papposed at every dentists visit. It is the best for his mental health and physical health, him fighting, kicking, screaming and ripping dentistry tools and harming himself would be a whole lot more traumatic for him. I have no qualms with the papoose board since I have to restrain my son daily as it is for other reasons and to brush his teeth. Yes it can be misused, but with a gentle caring dentist, which the op's sounds like since she wants to split the visits up to keep them short, they can be helpful.
post #27 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
The problem with the papoose is that it doesn't protect the child from mental harm. And as parents our children's long term physical and mental health are of utmost importance. The papoose may be a means to an end for you, as someone that clearly works in the dental field but parents have much more to consider. And I resent your showing up here and trying to sell the papoose as some sort of benign technique.
Thank you. It is way too mentally tramatic for my son to go through with. We have not yet do the fillings, but I did make an appt for the 28th of October. We're going to try the Versed an hour before the appt. to see what it does to him, if he's okay on it, I will take him. I tried 2 other dentists in the area who specialize in children, but this one was the best (cough) that I could find. Thanks for all of your help and imput everyone, I'll let you know how it turns out. BTW, I had no idea that these latest posts were here, sorry.

Poor kid, he's gonna flip.
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Calla~ View Post
We're going to try the Versed an hour before the appt. to see what it does to him, if he's okay on it, I will take him.
I wouldn't do versed in an office setting. It can cause respiratory depression and respiratory arrest, especially when used for sedation in noncritical care settings. And do NOT give it without emergency equipment available, like in your home. http://psyweb.com/Drughtm/jsp/versed.jsp

See the files section of Very Young Kids Teeth about in office dental sedation risks. I'd definitely do general anesthesia (in the hospital) before that. Although insurance probably would not agree that it is "medically indicated". I would not strap my child down unless it were a life threatening medical emergency.

Check at AP Doctor Referral: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP_Doc...guid=287472904

Alternative Kids Teeth: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...guid=287472904

Very Young Kids Teeth: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...guid=287472904
Sedation risk file: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...20Sedation%20/

There is plenty of time to allow your daughter to mature to a place of being cooperative and agreeable to having dental procedures done. Additionally, there are many natural alternatives to address cavities. Here is some info from the thread "Curing Cavities with Nutrition". It is about 2 years strong, and about 600 posts long. So, there is a lot of information. I haven't read all of it. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=399989


Foods that heal teeth:

* Feed your child every meal a soup of blended greens or softly
cooked vegetables.
* Key Vegetables for soup:
* Kales (and lots of dark greens), Zucchini, Celery, Green Beans,
Potatoes
* Add copious amounts of seaweed when the broth is done and the
soup is cooler.
* Never discard the vegetable liquid, it contains numerous vitamins.
* Raw Grass Fed Butter
* Organic and raw yogurt, and kefir
* Raw Grass fed Goat and Cow Milk.
* Cod Liver Oil (must be taken with the raw butter)
* Lacto-Fermented Foods and Beverages to enhance digestion and
assimilation
* Finely mashed up proteins from - Eggs, Fish, Organ Meets, or
other meets (grass fed only please!)
* Bone broth such as fish or chicken soup broth
* Fresh or cooked fruits
* Soaked, and sprouted nuts finely ground
* Really Raw Honey (may be okay)
* Sprouted/ fermented grains, (only for children over 1.5 years)
* There are many herbs that can be cautiously used to provide
minerals to the teeth,
* These include Horsetail, lemon grass, red raspberry leaf,
nettle's, lemon balm.



Foods that remove minerals from body and cause tooth decay and general
depletion.

* Almost every kind of sugar, even organic, especially fruit juices
* Bread, wheat, cookies, crackers, cereals, grains, nuts, seeds, pasta's
* Peanut Butter
* Any processed baby food
* Soy or soy formula
* Pasteurized milk
* Dried Fruit
* Iodized salt ďż˝ cheap processed salt.
* Non-organic animal products such as eggs, meat, chicken ect.



http://www.amazon.com/Cure-Tooth-Dec.../dp/1434810607
http://www.yourreturn.org/Articles/E...ries_Cured.htm

Healing Early Childhood Tooth Decay Naturally:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=529174&highlight=foods+hea\
l+teeth


http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html
http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/Articles/Rootcanal.htm


Let me know if you need more information.


Pat
post #29 of 33
Thread Starter 
Wu Wei, you rock. Unfortunately, I would have to sedate and papoose my kid down just to get him to eat thise things.

I spoke to the dentist, they don't manufacture Versed anylonger, and she just wants to restrain him. Buh-bye. I'm so stressed about this.:
post #30 of 33
My 6 yo son used Versed for oral sedation a month ago. He is very averse to any medical or dental work and Versed (along with a wonderful and kind dentist) allowed him to peaceably get his teeth fixed. He also used nitrous.

I am surprised the dentist is saying that Versed isn't made any more...I hope that you can find a dentist that works for you. We (my son and I) didn't like the pediatric dentists we saw and I just took him to my dentist.

It is so very stressful.
post #31 of 33
Uh, I wouldn't suggest Versed. As far as I know its still on the market. My daughter had it in August with an MRI (wish I had known about the Versed because I would of refused it). In fact it was Primary Children's in SLC that told us about this drug. Alot of kids don't tolerate it very well when coming out of it.

Come over to SN Parenting and ask about Versed.
post #32 of 33
There are topical options also, such as Spry xylitol gum, MI paste, topical fluoride, increased phosphorus and magnesium in the diet.

Many mamas have had success in slowing and halting tooth decay. Come check out the "Very Young Kids Teeth" yahoogroup. There is no urgency, just research the options. These are baby teeth. She is maturing every day. The long term psychological and dental impact are both relevant. She'll learn to trust (not lose trust), if she has a chance to participate in her health care.


Pat
post #33 of 33
Btw, there are plenty of dentists who are respectful of children and don't force them to have procedures against their will. I wouldn't want that done to me. We saw three dentists and each one was respectful and gentle, not forcing our child. Just look elsewhere. Maybe travel a ways, ask at AP Doctor Referral yahoogroup, or in Finding Your Tribe, or LLL locally, or Holistic Moms Network, or the local Mommies groups. There are many alternatives. And plenty of time.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP_Doc...guid=287472904


Pat
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Mothering › Forums › Health › Health and Healing › Dental › 3 year old, 3 cavities...they want to use the papoose.